Spiritual Experience

[Secession]

Neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger of Laurentian University has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area.

The book (Mapping The Mind) goes on but the point is there. Religion IS a mental problem, which could be cured by finding out what is wrong with religious peoples' temporal lobes and repairing it.

[cpwill]

:rolleyes:

[Countium]

All I can say is pass me the Scalpal, I have a big task ahead of me :cool:

[Aletheia]

Neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger of Laurentian University has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area.

The book (Mapping The Mind) goes on but the point is there. Religion IS a mental problem, which could be cured by finding out what is wrong with religious peoples' temporal lobes and repairing it.

That may be, but it goes nowhere in the attempt to debunk religion. All it says is that as God's creation, we have explored His world to the point that we have uncovered a new area of the brain.

[Secession]

It's difficult to get through to crazy people.

[Aletheia]

It's difficult to get through to crazy people.
meaning me?

[Secession]

Yes and no. You're crazy, I'm possessed by demons. We'll find out (or not) when we die.

Peace.

[xexon]

Maybe we should have dissected the brain of Jesus to see what area raised the dead or walked on water. Or Moses, in parting the Red Sea.

Science can never answer some questions.



x

[Aletheia]

Maybe we should have dissected the brain of Jesus to see what area raised the dead or walked on water. Or Moses, in parting the Red Sea.
x
Minor problem. . . We don't have his brain!!!!! :thinking:

[Distant]

I really only have one complaint, and that's where you said that religion was a mental problem. It simply is a state of mind in which a person can create a sense of history of things and can rely upon (whether working or not) to the point where things are accepted or disagreed with. In no means is religion a mental problem or illness. Its merely a concept in which people choose to believe in. That's all that I wanted to point out.

[Craig]

Perhaps equally as controversial as the neuroscientist's device is the findings of people who have examined mystical experiences, wherein one is supposedly unified with the UDR. Logically, if there is only one UDR, we would expect people to have the same sort of mystical expereince regardless of what religion they practiced. But this is not the case! Rather, each person's mystical experience depends upon which religion they follow, as people from different religions have a different mystical experience. And I am sure you can figure out the obvious implications of this research...

[earth]

I reach spiritual transcendence every time I have sex. It's good.

[mahayana]

"Neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger of Laurentian University has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area."

Not sure what this has to do with proving or disproving the existence of "spirit." I reach that same place easilly, and nearly at will, through meditation. But I'm still looking for evidence that souls exist, afterlife is possible. The described research is rather like explaining the "tunnel of light" in near-death experiences as oxygen deprivation of the retina.

[hzjoy]

Neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger of Laurentian University has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area.

The book (Mapping The Mind) goes on but the point is there. Religion IS a mental problem, which could be cured by finding out what is wrong with religious peoples' temporal lobes and repairing it.

In the first place; Stimulated "physically" it cannot be "Spiritual". The two are not directly connected...People have been "stimulating" themselves physically with drugs (that affect the brain) and having "Spiritual" experiences for years. Charles Manson met God on LSD. So what ? What about the guy who gets his mind stimulated by being hypnotized and believes he's a chicken. Will he really turn into a chicken if left in that state ? Is he really a chicken at the time...?

I understand your only speaking after someone else here, but get yourself around the fact that science says you only use 10% of your brain and maybe it will inspire you to have thoughts of your own and kick in the other 9 1/2 %

[gopman]

Even as they discover more and more parts of the brain that they believe are responsible for certain actions or emotions, they still haven't a clue as to what causes them. There has never been any evidence put forth to rebutt the idea of spirit or free will.

[cpwill]

nor has anyone ever been able to figure out how electrical impulses across the brain somehow translate themselves into thought.

[mahayana]

"There has never been any evidence put forth to rebutt the idea of spirit or free will."

Or to prove it. That's the problem.

[Secession]

Maybe we should have dissected the brain of Jesus to see what area raised the dead or walked on water. Or Moses, in parting the Red Sea.

Science can never answer some questions.



x

That assumes that any of those things happened...

[Secession]

nor has anyone ever been able to figure out how electrical impulses across the brain somehow translate themselves into thought.

It's a delusion. We are hunger and hormone driven robots. Our concept of self is a delsuion brought on by the mapping device (our brain) having to refer to itself as our mapping of the environment became more accurate. Consciousness is an illusion.

[2ruballa]

yes, demons once said the Earth was flat

[Secession]

That would be the church. Until those demons started most people could see the world was obviously round.

[2ruballa]

Yeah thats right. Good job Galileo.

[Secession]

That's the guy who was demonised by the church for having the audacity to think, wouldn't it?

[2ruballa]

Yeah that was him. Labeled as heretic.

[Secession]

Religion. I'd make it illegal.

[2ruballa]

Too many times in the past there were corrupt men in the position of the powerful Pope, but at least church and state is separated now. Even while the church was sometimes led by evil leaders, the church has served its purpose. The message has been sent.

[cpwill]

Religion. I'd make it illegal.

:shrug: wouldn't be anything new for us....

[Fasdf]

Religion. I'd make it illegal.

I'd make support groups, like AA or something.

[Underling]

Religion. I'd make it illegal.
Wouldn't be long until one of the future leaders where a member of a relgious sect and made that religion legal.

[Quiix]

Neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger of Laurentian University has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area.

The book (Mapping The Mind) goes on but the point is there. Religion IS a mental problem, which could be cured by finding out what is wrong with religious peoples' temporal lobes and repairing it.

There is a center in the brain for hunger, fear, sex drive, and so on. Tumors in the brain can affect these areas and others, causing an artificial stimulus that makes the organism react as if it has a biological need when there is actually none.

I don't find it surprising at all that there is a part of the brain that causes a spiritual experience. I'm quite sure everyone has one, most people just don't know how to access that area. But those that can access it by prayer and mediation usually discuss a sense of well-being and a resulting relaxed state. These results can of course be explained biologically by neurotransmitters and receptors.

My point is that a spiritual center makes biological sense, just as does the other parts of the brain that react to input. Apparently, spiritual people have learned how to activate that part of the brain, but then this is no secret unless you're educated and only believe scientific dogma. People have been using this part of the temporal lobe probably as long as man has existed.

[mahayana]

I suppose calling this part of the brain "spiritual" is where the confusion arises. The feelings engendered do nothing to prove anything one way or the other. Transcendental meditation and yoga are mostly touted as relaxation techniques, a bunch of ideas about spirit come to people already primed for such explanations.

Psychedelic drugs also make people very suggestible, but if you have a religious trip it was probably in there already. The old line is "If you talk to God a lot, you're devout; if God talks to you, you're schizophrenic."

[Secession]

What if he tells you to burn things?

[mahayana]

Or to let somebody nail you to a tree? Good point, I wonder about that, too.

[Texsand]

Perhaps a study should be made as to what behavioral patterns develop after one has the quintessential spiritual experience.

[cpwill]

well, mine got a whole lot better; i began to become less and less prone to violence and rages, i began to study more, i quit hating others for either their actions or simply because of who they were, and i found that i generally liked myself a whole lot better.