Insanely Stupid [Archive] - Whistle Stopper Political Forums

Locke

11-24-2003, 04:32 PM

People make me nuts sometimes.

I remember when we said the pledge of alleigence automatically, like a robot droning on doing whatever its work was to do, every morning. We sat down and did our class then, without a second thought.

Then, some idiot came up and questioned the fact that the pledge has God in it ("oh no! we can't have this ruining our perfect little atheist children, now can we?!") and it went on and on. As it still is.

But now, every day I'm reminded about this. Yeah, I'm in 10th grade in high school, and last year everyone said it and the teacher got mad if we didn't say it. Now, about half the class stands and less still say it, me and a few others. What is with this loss? People practically went insane with patriotism 2 years ago, what has changed?

It makes me angry when I hear about how people are going against and working so that it gets changed. Well, what's wrong with omitting the "God" part of the pledge if you dont beleive? Why change so many things just because one person wants to make things difficult, when it doesn't even affect them?

There is a precedent to this, too.

A hundred years ago, give or take a few, there was a case where a man tought evolution, as a test to see how people would react. He was promptly arrested, as he figured would happen. This made people realise that you shouldn't do things like this because of people's beleifs, after all we have (had?) free speech, right?

Well, now things are different. They've gone backwards, and we've regressed and not enough people care to stop those making life annoying for people like me. So, what's wrong with society today that you go to court for saying "God" in school?

Locke

11-24-2003, 04:37 PM

Hmm... this reminds me bout a case we discussed in school, about how a teacher was expelled because she wore a cross to school. The principal or superintendant, I'm not sure which, told her not to go with it again. She wore it under her dress, so it wasn't visible anyways, so someone must've checked her. That's as many of the details that I know, but from that I see some more of this same stuff going on. If you can't see it, than what's wrong? And how is it going to hurt anyone if they see it?

Voice Of Reason

11-24-2003, 06:26 PM

The U.S. is 90% judo/christian..........It is very sad that those politically correct on the left are trying to take God away from our country...............

DRMIZER

11-29-2003, 01:16 PM

up2date

11-29-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Voice Of Reason
The U.S. is 90% judo/christian..........It is very sad that those politically correct on the left are trying to take God away from our country............... The ironic thing is those people you complain about are trying to do the exact opposite. They are trying to preserve your right to go to the church of your choice, or not go to church at all.

JD3

11-29-2003, 04:39 PM

This is also why we are not a direct democracy. The majority can be as oppressive as any dictator.

Duo_Maxwell

11-29-2003, 06:58 PM

We're not even a real representative democracy for crying out loud.

We're a representative plutocracy.

The one who spends the most gets the seat. How often has a canidate with a vastly larger warchest LOST an election?

Socrate's ranking in order of best to worse.
His Polis
Oligarchy
Democracy (WOOT! :rolleyes: )
Tyranny

Sandy

12-01-2003, 01:08 PM

Locke, in my case hearing "Under God" is strange indeed. It wasn't there when I was in grammar school and it wasn't there when I was in high school. Where did this come from?

After WW2, when America figured all our problems were solved, we discovered that Communism was beginning to infiltrate from Russia into our American Constitutional Republic.

Unthinking, Ike decided to add "Under God" so that the Communists would leave us alone. Ike felt that Communism was a religion. How ridiculous. Why the House and Senate ever bought this crap is amazing. These added two words smoldered for years in the minds of many of us who certainly understood that Communism was a political subject not a religion.

I saw many demonstrations in the public when our flags were paraded and to this day most of my generation will not add those two words because it takes the emphasis from our patriotism. Ike was absolutely wrong to impose this on any of us. The word that I would like to see removed from the pledge is "indivisible" because it claims that we can never break away from our new intrusive massive cancer of a federal government.

In the last 15 years the Religious Right has imposed their might trying to get their toes into our government and will never give up until Christian bible versus are taught in our public schools. What you are seeing in your classrooms headed by the ACLU is an attempt to tell the Christians to open their own damn schools and leave the public schools to the public.

Someday the Christians will learn to leave well enough alone and stop pushing their religion on everyone in America.

No one is closing the churches or even telling them they can't meet after school for bible classes. But to the rest of us who don't want any teacher to teach the bible our kids, it is a terrible imposition. Unless we curb this now, Hillary Clinton could simply write up her curriculum in 2008 and she will direct/mandate which bible quotes are acceptable.

Christians never figure out the consequences for their pushing and shoving into where they do not belong. Open up bible classes in school and watch what Hillary will do with it! Would you have wanted Bill Clinton to direct your curriculum?

gopman

12-01-2003, 01:18 PM

I don't think it's a matter of being a christian society today, I think it's an acknowledgement of our past. As for people not being allowed to mention God or wear crosses to school, I think that's an unfair infringement of state on church. Inasmuch as the government can't force us to promote our religion, they can't stop us either. As long as religion isn't taught as fact by public schools, teachers, students, and judges (and everyone else) have the same rights to express their religion as they please- whether that is by wearing a cross or going door to door. Simply expressing a religion doesn't infringe on anyone's rights to believe in and express whatever they want. It doesn't matter if someone is offended by seeing a cross. It matters that that person should be free to wear it.

gopman

12-01-2003, 01:20 PM

"Someday the Christians will learn to leave well enough alone and stop pushing their religion on everyone in America."

That's what's great about America. They can say whatever they want. So can everyone else. It's not bein forced on anyone.

As for stopping, the christian fath is founded on principles of evangelism, so I don't think they're ever going to stop trying to spread their faith. Many other religions are the same.

up2date

12-01-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by gopman
I don't think it's a matter of being a christian society today, I think it's an acknowledgement of our past. As for people not being allowed to mention God or wear crosses to school, I think that's an unfair infringement of state on church. Inasmuch as the government can't force us to promote our religion, they can't stop us either. As long as religion isn't taught as fact by public schools, teachers, students, and judges (and everyone else) have the same rights to express their religion as they please- whether that is by wearing a cross or going door to door. Simply expressing a religion doesn't infringe on anyone's rights to believe in and express whatever they want. It doesn't matter if someone is offended by seeing a cross. It matters that that person should be free to wear it. I think this is an exaggeration of the state of things. I don't have school aged children, so perhaps I am a little out of touch. But as I understand it, it is not a problem for a child to wear a cross or for a child to mention God in school. The problem comes when God is an official part of the school curriculum. There is a big difference.

Sandy

12-01-2003, 05:32 PM

Up2date. If these people were rational and not so pushy we might even be able to have many different celebrations in our schools! We did in my highschool and every year we celebrated one of the many December religious parts that make up America. Today this would be impossible and who does this hurt? The kids of course! I didn't wait for the schools to celebrate anything and I did all kinds of difference celebrations throughout the month of December. We started a Beethoven Birthday party that grew so vast I had to have it catered. Nobody had to bring a present but everyone had to have a fact based on Beethoven's life or be able to play a part of a Sonata on the piano. After 10 years of this, it even became black tie and formals. The kids loved it! It always added a certain elegant dignity to our pre Christmas parties. My mother had been a professional pianist and donated all her formals to the occasion.

We soon added Mozart and Bach to our birthday celebrations. I didn't need a damn school to do this for us. Parents are lazy with little imagination. Even when I had my bookstore I had my piano in the window and we would celebrate Bach's birthday and all the piano teachers in the country would bring their students in for a recital. They became quite famous and I always had a bunch of books on the music of Bach to sell and they did! When the movie Amadeus came out, that started a great interest in Mozart and I went right along with it. I started selling audio tapes of all Mozart's music and it was wonderful.

I can find a celebration any day of the week.

Captain America

12-01-2003, 08:04 PM

I can find a celebration any day of the week.

Now if I could just remember where I put my teeth!:eek:

C'mon Sandy. You know that was funny. I heard you giggle. Give me a :rofl:

;)

Sandy

12-02-2003, 08:14 AM

Har, har, har! Actually it was pretty funny.

I do tend to get touchy on the subject of religion. Last night I attended a wonderful piano recita. by a Swiss young man who sure could play Bach! During intermission, I was chatting with the lady to my right who had helped me find my seat. This recital was played in a huge Baptist Church and the setting was beautiful.

Out of the blue she asked me when I had felt the raptures and gone to Jesus. I stared at her in horror! I told her I had yet to experience this and she went ballistic and wanted to have my phone number. No way Jose! She assumed that I must be a member of this church and I said absolutelu not! This crazy woman was at least 10 years my junior and had just divorced her second husband and probably going through some hormonal changes. She got pretty loud and the gentleman sitting in front of me turned around and told her to shut the hell up! I was stunned at his rudeness until she warned me about hanging around with cults! I have trained teenagers for years to be aware of cults and people like her!

I did not lose my cool but was fairly embarrassed by her forcefulness. It seems that there is an epidemic of raptures going around in my city and it is time for me to move on.

I hate to disappoint you my I have all my own teeth and even passed a mental test at my doctor's office when I got out of the hospital. Apparently they test all us old folks after extreme surgery to test our sanity and mental abilities. Everything is in working order except for my knees, which are still quite weak. I'm worning on those and maybe can return to the tennis court soon.

Missouri Mule

12-02-2003, 08:53 AM

I remember the time when "under God" was not part of the pledge of allegiance. Then it went in under the Eisonhower's administration. No big deal. We didn't have prayer in the schools where I attended in St. Louis County and I don't know where that business started. As far as religion is concerned, I just let it go in one ear and out the other. People have given up trying to get me to come to their church. I have made it known that I am not going to do it so just leave me alone. IMHO, religion is a relic and will be known only in the history books a hundred years from now. What will replace it I have no idea. People may still cling to some concept of "God" as an unknown force somewhere "out there."

Just smile at them and go on. At least they are not throwing bombs at you. They are just well-meaning pests.

Sandy

12-02-2003, 09:16 AM

But Mule, they are throwing bombs at us. What do you call 9-11? These were Islamic religious terrorists who have sworn on their holy books to kill every last one of us!!!

In the history of the Christian church, they did the same thing with every country they conquered, starting with the Crusades.

If the Islamic terrorists ever get their feed on American soil you can expect a war that could end our country as we know it. I have a fear of Louis Farrahkan who is building the biggest Muslim mosque in America right here in Phoenix (Scottsdale).....He is bringing southern blacks by the hundreds and training them in what he calls Muslim defense projects. He is planning boot camps to help the young people......possibly to take over the country.

Bush knows all of this and still won't close the borders with Mexico and these middle east illegal immigrants are all over the southwest.

Captain America

12-02-2003, 10:42 AM

But Mule, they are throwing bombs at us. What do you call 9-11? These were Islamic religious terrorists who have sworn on their holy books to kill every last one of us!!!

I'm inclined to believe that too. I also have some reservation about that. Whereas I do agree that the perps in that attack were in fact Muslim, I think it was done more for political reasons than religious ones. I think that the controlling right-wing purposely want us, a christian nation:rolleyes: , to fear Islamics to avoid making any political changes that might deter future attacks. Although they go on the telly at night and tell us not to fear and discriminate against the Muslims, they do so tongue and cheek.

Spin and rhetoric. It's out of control. You have to look real carefully to see past the smoke screen in Washington. Some people cannot do this and swallow anything Washington feeds them hook line and sinker. Then are others who can smell them coming a mile away.

Sandy

12-02-2003, 10:58 AM

We lost 3000 Americans on 9-11 and the greeting was sanctioned by Osama Bin Laden the head honcho of Al Qaeda. It was certainly a religious warning that they are coming again and again. The Taliban and Al Qaeda have made it absolutely clear that they will destroy every non-muslim in the world.

I read more than the W.D.C. newspapers and tend to read everything from the British Guardian to the South Amerian news sites. I have a log list of "News Sources" in my address book and hit each one at least once a week.

I judge every item according to the legality of the action in our own Constitution. I live for the day when Ashcorft and the Patriot's Bill is removed and we return to the laws of our land.

I also live for the day when the Federal Government gets out of our social habits and let us smoke dope if that is what we want to do. I am more than qualified to judge for myself what is good for me and what isn't. Gay marriages are of no concern of mine and Prostitition has no impact on my life at all. Gambing doesn't interest me and I wish D.C. would ignore it too. We have enough on the plate for D.C. to work on, why do we insist on handing them the decision regarding abortion? If you are against abortions, don't have one. If smoking bothers you, stay home! What's the matter with Americans these days?

Our biggest threat is the Islamic Terrorists. They are playing deadly games with America and her allies. We can only counter this with a strong defense not a prayer meeting.

This is a religious war and Bush is assuming all Americans are Christian which is INSANELY STUPID!!!

gopman

12-02-2003, 11:25 AM

We should stop a majority of Americans from expressing their religion to placate terrorists? I'm not even going to comment on that idea.

Locke

12-02-2003, 12:20 PM

I haven't been on in a while, so I just got a chance to see what everyone wrote. I wasn't saying that I think religion should be in schools or anything like that, just that instead of changing things so much, just leave it like it is. It doesn't hurt anyone and if they don't like it, which is the beauty of democracy, then you don't have to say/ do anything concerning religion. Leave it alone, don't force or condemn it.

This shouldn't be a "religious war". Like you mentioned the crusades, and like I mentioned the teacher who taught evolution, there is always a precedent to these things. But always opposite, and in both cases the other side says it's wrong- then they go ahead and do it without realizing it. Abused children become abusers, igonoring their previous pain. We commited xenocide, killing tens of millions of indians, before a hundred years later condemming the Germans for the same thing. Yes, we saw it was wrong from another viewpoint. but it was still at least as wrong for the US to do their killing as the Germans in the Holocaust. And, just like the evolution case where the teacher got in jail for teaching, now you can get in trouble for talking about religion in some cases. It's not right either way.

My whole point is that people should not try to fix an unbroken thing. Leave it!

up2date

12-02-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by gopman
We should stop a majority of Americans from expressing their religion to placate terrorists? I'm not even going to comment on that idea. Very few people are arguing for this. We are a country of 300 million people, each one with their own right to practice and express their religion (or lack of). But collectively, there is no room for a national religion of any sort.

Captain America

12-02-2003, 01:46 PM

The First Church of Bushism. Soon coming to a pulpit near you. Praise George. Amen.:laughter:

Missouri Mule

12-02-2003, 02:08 PM

"But Mule, they are throwing bombs at us. What do you call 9-11? These were Islamic religious terrorists who have sworn on their holy books to kill every last one of us!!!"

Sandy, I thought it was understood that I was talking about the Christian fundamentalists here in the U.S. I apologize for my lack of clarity.

booboohead

12-02-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Missouri Mule
IMHO, religion is a relic and will be known only in the history books a hundred years from now. What will replace it I have no idea.
"National Security"

:)

Sandy

12-02-2003, 03:01 PM

Locke, our schools are broken. We keep finding things to distract them from the fundemental academics and these incessat government mandates are doing nothing for the children themselves. Our children have no usable vocabulary and tend to talk in televisionese terms instead of good fundamental English.

One of the main problems are the dialects that are spoken in the schools which make someone from Maine unable to understand what somebody from Alabama is talking about. To fix this mess phonics should be taught and practiced all through schools.

I worked for a woman from Texas who deliberately slurred her words to annoy her employees. She was a district chief for the American Red Cross and many times our instructions were given on a hand held radio or a telephone where unless we got the instructions right the first time, lives could be in danger. It used to drive me crazy that she still slurred and dropped the end letters of every word and I had to translate for the rest of the group.

In the theater we call this a lazy mouth and must be corrected at once. Bush has this problem and many of us have a real problem trying to figure out what he is talking about. He annoys me so much I don't even listen to him anymore.

Voice Of Reason

12-02-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by DRMIZER
Do you really believe this? If you do, do you ever believe it will happen?

Yes, and sadly it is happening......Some day and probably soon the 90% Judo/Christian will be heard.....

booboohead

12-02-2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Sandy
I worked for a woman from Texas who deliberately slurred her words to annoy her employees.
Sandy, not to pick on you, but how did you know this woman actually intended to annoy her employees. I don't personally know anyone that annoys other people on purpose. What would be the rationale for that?

Granted, some people have habits or behave in a way which is 'annoying' to some people. And some have 'issues' that make them mad at the world and who annoy on purpose just for attention. But I place more responsibility on the 'annoyant' to confront the person, than the 'annoyer' to intuit who they're annoying. Forgive my misuse of english.

Did you ever discuss your difficulty understanding her accent with her?

Its nothing personal; to validate someones arguments I'm compelled to question their underlying premises.

Sandy

12-02-2003, 07:33 PM

This woman was trying to develop an attitude and came off sounding terribly stupid. She would brag that she talked just like they do in Texas and continued to slur her words everytime we went on a call. If you ever watch Imus in the Morning, he does the same thing. Too cool, too relaxed and in the case of Red Cross Disasters, too damn dangerous!

Locke

12-03-2003, 09:55 AM

How do your quote about dialects and slurring have anything to do with how religion is opressed by these "INSANELY STUPID!!" laws? Like I said before and continue saying, I dont want everyone to suddenly become religious. Nor do I want everyone to just become something else. Just, for god's (haha) sake, leave things alone. These schools are broken- broken by the people who ruin it- people like those no-religion anarchist liberal jerks. Keep doing what you're doing, it makes it so much worse. The only way to fix these "broken" schools is to stop all of these nuts from keeping religion away. As long as youre not pressing religion, by all means go ahead. It's in fact the lack of religion thats breaking these schools. Those few parents that are screwing so much up now need to go find a dark corner and lay down there, and hide from the rest of humanity.