Is The World Becoming More Or Less Religious?

[Thermopylae]

Is The World Becoming More Or Less Religious?

[Thermopylae]

Myself, I think religion has lost its touch ever since Magellan circumnavigated the world.

Does anyone here still believe the world is flat?

[beg your pardon]

The more science explained the less we needed God, but thats come to a standstill lately.

[marv]

beg your pardon,...but thats come to a standstill lately.Do you mean science or the need for religion?

Science has been exploding for the past couple hundred years. Especially since the Industrial Revolution. And religion has continued to decline if you look at the number of active practitioners.

[bratt]

Religion is just another form of capitalism ... and everyone *hopefully* is slowly realizing this.

Spirituality is a whole different question.

[MikeD4o7]

The more science explained the less we needed God

Very true... God has always been the God of the gaps. The more we fill gaps with reason and science, the less room there is for God in our lives and in our natural world. God used to raise the sun everyday, bring plagues, make plants grow, cause thunderstorms, etc etc. Now that all of those things can be adequately explained by science, God has retreated back to the origins of life.. and considering the inevitable finding of the natural occurences for life and their explanations by science... it's obvious that God will eventually retreat back to the beginning of the universe as the place where he was active. As long as there are gaps in our understanding of our universe, there will be people who want to fill those gaps with the supernatural.

[Craig]

Actually, current indications show that while both Christiainity and Atheism are in decline in the world, the membership in Islam is actually increasing. Thus, the world is in fact becoming more religious.

[CyNix]

Myself, I think religion has lost its touch ever since Magellan circumnavigated the world.

Does anyone here still believe the world is flat?
According to the Bible, the earth is spherical in shape. The book of Job mentioned this many thousands of years before Magellen was born.

[cpwill]

less so, never before have there been the growing number of non-religious individuals.

however, i would say the church itself is spreading, while it is not doing so in europe or america.

[Thermopylae]

I don't know too much about Islam, but I have heard, and from my own experience believe, that Islam is one of the most easily misinterpreted religions in the world, spawned from a vague book, the Kuran.

Can any of the Knights Of Templar here ellaborate, or even correct me if I am wrong?

[Texsand]

The world is becoming less religious the fighting that is occurring is in my opinion due to that fact. Relgion is dying and what we are experiencing are it's death throes.

[crawfish]

Very true... God has always been the God of the gaps. The more we fill gaps with reason and science, the less room there is for God in our lives and in our natural world. God used to raise the sun everyday, bring plagues, make plants grow, cause thunderstorms, etc etc. Now that all of those things can be adequately explained by science, God has retreated back to the origins of life.. and considering the inevitable finding of the natural occurences for life and their explanations by science... it's obvious that God will eventually retreat back to the beginning of the universe as the place where he was active. As long as there are gaps in our understanding of our universe, there will be people who want to fill those gaps with the supernatural..

Think about it this way: every time we answer a question, it raises thousands of other questions (such as, once we discovered the atom, we found we needed to discover its nature in the universe). Thus, based on what what we know we don't know , we are far more ignorant today than we were a thousand years ago. The only difference is that we now put more trust in science to fill the gaps.

However, I disagree with your thesis. It's been remarkable to me how the Bible has weathered scientific discovery. There have always been a large number of Christians who are not afraid of discovery, and for whom science is simply the investigation of God's creation.

Christianity's growth may be at a standstill in the U.S. and Europe, but you'd be surprised at how fast it's growing in China, Africa and the middle east. It's my opinion that even in the U.S., it's the fringe attenders that are not attending...in other words, while the numbers may be shrinking somewhat, the core is actually getting stronger, and that bodes well for future generations. From a Christian standpoint, of course.

[eugene40]

I think it is becoming more split,,, the religious are religious to the nth degree,,, and the non religious are becoming exceedingly non... And it is great,,, save for that whole religious side still clinging to straws and trying to hold back the rest of us. But the more we start to understand things,,, the more we will realize that is the answer to all things,, not religion.

[MikeD4o7]

Think about it this way: every time we answer a question, it raises thousands of other questions (such as, once we discovered the atom, we found we needed to discover its nature in the universe). Thus, based on what what we know we don't know , we are far more ignorant today than we were a thousand years ago. The only difference is that we now put more trust in science to fill the gaps.


Becoming more and more aware of the extent of our ignorance does not make us more ignorant... it's just the opposite. It's better to know you don't know than it is to think you know when you don't. Our trust in science is increasing because science has proven not only to be right more than it has been wrong... but it's also shown the ability to correct itself when it is wrong... so our foundations of knowledge built on science are constantly increasing both in scope and in certainty.

However, I disagree with your thesis. It's been remarkable to me how the Bible has weathered scientific discovery. There have always been a large number of Christians who are not afraid of discovery, and for whom science is simply the investigation of God's creation.


There are a couple of reasons for this. For one, the main emphasis of the Bible is definitely not on science, so it's easy for believers to discard the scientific errors in the Bible as unimportant. It's also the case that many people see what they want to and ignore what they don't want to see. You'll see believers pointing to verses which may be have some scientific truth to them... but you never see those people acknowledging other things, like the fact that the 7 day creation story in genesis doesn't even get the order of creation correctly (the sun and stars being created after the earth).

Christianity's growth may be at a standstill in the U.S. and Europe, but you'd be surprised at how fast it's growing in China, Africa and the middle east. It's my opinion that even in the U.S., it's the fringe attenders that are not attending...in other words, while the numbers may be shrinking somewhat, the core is actually getting stronger, and that bodes well for future generations. From a Christian standpoint, of course.

Religion always seems to thrive the most where education is poor.

"Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."

"Scientists and Religion in America"
Scientific American, September 1999


" A recent survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences showed that 72% are outright atheists, 21% are agnostic and only 7% admit to belief in a personal God."

"Leading Scientists Still Reject God"
Nature, 394(6691):313, 23 July 1998


There was also an old gallup poll that showed a negative correlation between education levels in general and convictions in religious beliefs, but I can't find the exact numbers.

Keep in mind all of this isn't "proof" of anything... entire portions of humanity have been wrong before... and even the scientific community in general has held beliefs before that have later turned out to be wrong (at which point, scientists revise their views and go with what the evidence shows)... I just think it may be a little more than coincidence that in our profoundly religious society, one of the groups that is always the most skeptical of religion is the portion of society whose job it is to be knowledgable and study the universe we live in.

[crawfish]

Becoming more and more aware of the extent of our ignorance does not make us more ignorant... it's just the opposite. It's better to know you don't know than it is to think you know when you don't. Our trust in science is increasing because science has proven not only to be right more than it has been wrong... but it's also shown the ability to correct itself when it is wrong... so our foundations of knowledge built on science are constantly increasing both in scope and in certainty.

I wouldn't say that science has been proven right more than wrong; the truth is, we open ten false doors for every true one. That hardly matters - the scientific method depends on such risk-taking.

I think religion, in particular Christianity, is going through a phase of realization that the Bible is not necessarily telling a scientific story but a story of the nature of God. Thus, scientific knowledge should not affect our faith in any sense.

Personally, I do NOT think we're getting less religious, just more polarized.

[Malone1234]

Christianity's growth may be at a standstill in the U.S. and Europe, but you'd be surprised at how fast it's growing in China, Africa and the middle east.

I think we need to look at the context of the spreading christian movement in China, Africa and to some extent the Middle East. It seems that in stable, first world countries (U.S., Canada and most of Europe), where science rules and even "poor" people generally have a decent life, religion is falling by the wayside. In Africa, poverty is the norm, ethnic cleansing threatens the existence of millions. In China, despite its booming economy, poverty is still the norm. People barely subsist in many areas. Life is rather "poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Where do these people turn to for any sign of stability or hope? The answer is religion. Why do they choose Christianity? Because christian missionaries are hard at work in those regions. If Muslim organizations used as many resources on missions as Christian organizations do, we would see Islam spreading just as quickly in those areas. And if Africa, China, and the Middle East ever catch up to the first world in terms of quality of life and stability, it is likely that religion would begin to lose influence just as it is in the West today.

[Craig]

According to the Bible, the earth is spherical in shape.

Funny that Aristotle knew this too, before the book of Job was written, is it not? ;)

[cpwill]

....does it make it any less true?

[Ronnieraygun]

Very true... God has always been the God of the gaps. The more we fill gaps with reason and science, the less room there is for God in our lives and in our natural world. God used to raise the sun everyday, bring plagues, make plants grow, cause thunderstorms, etc etc. Now that all of those things can be adequately explained by science, God has retreated back to the origins of life.. and considering the inevitable finding of the natural occurences for life and their explanations by science... it's obvious that God will eventually retreat back to the beginning of the universe as the place where he was active. As long as there are gaps in our understanding of our universe, there will be people who want to fill those gaps with the supernatural.

You have to understand the whole concept of christianity before you can realize why people believe. You're comments address only the secular. Faith in religion has nothing to do with the secular world. Faith is exactly that...FAITH. Either you believe, or you don't. But I can tell you that those who do believe, and follow the teachings of their religion generally find a balance in their lives, and are not afraid of death. (understand that this is not to say that any of them are ready or willing to die anytime soon, but when it's their time, they don't fear the inevitable.)

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD ."

[MikeD4o7]

You have to understand the whole concept of christianity before you can realize why people believe. You're comments address only the secular. Faith in religion has nothing to do with the secular world. Faith is exactly that...FAITH. Either you believe, or you don't. But I can tell you that those who do believe, and follow the teachings of their religion generally find a balance in their lives, and are not afraid of death. (understand that this is not to say that any of them are ready or willing to die anytime soon, but when it's their time, they don't fear the inevitable.)

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD ."


I have no doubt that it brings people comfort. I have an issue with faith though, depending on how you define faith. I believe it's unethical to believe something without being able to justify the belief through reason. If faith truly were just a completely seperate entity from the secular world, then I would have no problem with it... but the fact of the matter is that people's faiths guide decisions in their lives. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it always works out badly... it may even work out pretty well most of the time... but it's the principle that a system of beliefs and conduct is essentially being built up from faith, which by definition, is something which can't be built up on reason.

The place where it most glaringly a problem today is with homosexuality. People claim it's immoral because they have faith that the ancient texts they read are inspired by a supernatural power... and those texts say it's immoral. For many people, it's as simple as that... Bible says so... it must be so. No reasoning necessary. No need to actually explain HOW homosexuality is immoral or who it harms and why. Just a simple "because the Bible says so, and I have faith in the Bible". That's all it takes to condemn the lifestyle of an entire portion of the population when you have faith.

[crawfish]

I think we need to look at the context of the spreading christian movement in China, Africa and to some extent the Middle East. It seems that in stable, first world countries (U.S., Canada and most of Europe), where science rules and even "poor" people generally have a decent life, religion is falling by the wayside. In Africa, poverty is the norm, ethnic cleansing threatens the existence of millions. In China, despite its booming economy, poverty is still the norm. People barely subsist in many areas. Life is rather "poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Where do these people turn to for any sign of stability or hope? The answer is religion. Why do they choose Christianity? Because christian missionaries are hard at work in those regions. If Muslim organizations used as many resources on missions as Christian organizations do, we would see Islam spreading just as quickly in those areas. And if Africa, China, and the Middle East ever catch up to the first world in terms of quality of life and stability, it is likely that religion would begin to lose influence just as it is in the West today.
It's my opinion that it's not education/science that's causing the lack of growth of Christianity in the west, but materialism. People have more, want more, and are more likely to reject those things that make them feel guilty about it. The concept of selflessness and sacrifice that is the centerpiece of Christianity is simply counter to the values that the west promotes.

Rest assured, for the majority of people the choice of agnosticism/unbelief is just as steeped in ignorance as many Christian's belief. It's not many who can take a true, unbiased look and come to an intelligent decision.

[Ronnieraygun]

I believe it's unethical to believe something without being able to justify the belief through reason. If faith truly were just a completely seperate entity from the secular world, then I would have no problem with it... but the fact of the matter is that people's faiths guide decisions in their lives. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it always works out badly... it may even work out pretty well most of the time... but it's the principle that a system of beliefs and conduct is essentially being built up from faith, which by definition, is something which can't be built up on reason.

This is sadly true. The Crusades were motivated by faith, yet this event in human history is in part responsible for the mistrust that lives between christians and muslims.

However my life is now directed by my faith, and it I think it's worked out pretty well. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the light." And I believe that without proof. Funny as it may seem, I take full stock in scripture. I try to lead my life as God intended me to. All I can tell you is if you want to know the rationale of todays christians, you'll have to read the bible. It's all in there. :)