HOMESCHOOLING

[DRMIZER]

What is your personal opinion on homeschooling and why?

[JD3]

Wasn't sure my answer was there. I went with best alternative, but I'd really prefer to say a valid alternative for some.

The few homeschool students I have taught in college were quite impressive. They hadn't learned yet to go to the back of the class and slump in thier chairs. Nor did they know that is wasn't cool or safe to answer questions or to take a risk. There were active participants from day one in class.

But they are too small a sampling to speak for all. I see room for problems. But with motivated families who have a proper fix on standards, this seems like a viable opintion to me.

And from what I have seen of high school socialization, better to be raised without it.;)

[KWJams]

I do not see anything wrong with it other than the lack of social inter-action with peers.

It would seem to be more logical to fix the problems in public schooling.
But what the solution is, I have no clue. :confused:

[Dissent]

I only knew of one person who has done home schooling and that was only because he lives in the outback and distance is a problem. For this I think it’s a good idea, but there needs to be a form of social interaction there as well. The need for social contact with others of our generation is so important to our very nature.
Although, I can understand that public schooling isn’t always great, I still think there is many valuable lessons not just socially but about life and conformity, authority that can be taught in school.

As for this poll, sorry, I can’t answer, my answer isn’t there.

[ranger]

The greatest myth and the biggest argument against it is the need for social contact.

I have never seen a study that agrees. As a matter of fact, when my wife brought up the issue I used the same argument went to the library (TRS80 wasn't even around back then). I found 4 studies commissioned by the National Education Association that came to the conclusion school was not needed for social contact.

There is a variety of obvious alternatives. The local park playground, Boy or Girl Scouts, Boys or Girls Clubs, Church youth groups.

What the home school children do often suffer a lack of is contact with bullies, abusive teachers, horrible cafeteria food, dangerous bus rides in the winter, sex and religious indoctrination which violates the beliefs of the family.

[JD3]

As I said, from what I have seen of the results of social contact in highschool, better to be without.;)

[RepublicanGal]

What the home school children do often suffer a lack of is contact with bullies, abusive teachers, horrible cafeteria food, dangerous bus rides in the winter, sex and religious indoctrination which violates the beliefs of the family.

Seems insulated. Children will have to face these problems sooner or later, hopefully in an environment where they can safely learn how to do just that. Adulthood is not the time to observe and learn from these situations. Cafeteria food being the exception, of course.

[JD3]

Originally posted by RepublicanGal
Seems insulated. Children will have to face these problems sooner or later, hopefully in an environment where they can safely learn how to do just that. Adulthood is not the time to observe and learn from these situations. Cafeteria food being the exception, of course.

I am not as sure about this as I used to be. I see a lot of damaged teens who never did adjust. Working with the limited number of homeschool children I have worked with, they seemed to meet it when they were ready to handle it and not be traumatized by it. I simply think we can't take this for granted. It may be wrong.:confused:

[ranger]

Again I ask for studies. I find the arguments against home schooling to be without any scientific support.

Where is your proof? Home schoolers have their experiences, and there are 100's of thousands of home schoolers and most arguments against it usually start with "I think" or "I feel".

[RepublicanGal]

You will find opinions based on the experience of those who have home-schooled children, those who have public- or private-schooled children, and those who have no children at all.

I don't know of a study on the confidence, lack of confidence, situation-handling skills, or the ages at which confidence is instilled and situation handling of any group of children becomes a successful life tool.

[ranger]

If you have no personal experience with home schooled children, never home schooled, never taught children who have been home schooled, or never made a scientific study of home schooling then you have no information to add to the debate.

My wife and I have been home schooling for over 20 years. We have 8 children. All have chosen to attend the local high school at some point, usually because their boy or girl friend attend, and without exception their teachers tell us the wish all of their students were as polite and helpful as our children. The experiences are the same with most home schooled children they have come into contact with.

[JD3]

Still, even that is anadotal. I will aska round about studies tomorrow. Maybe there are some.;)

[RepublicanGal]

If you have no personal experience with home schooled children, never home schooled, never taught children who have been home schooled, or never made a scientific study of home schooling then you have no information to add to the debate.


Pardon me...but if there is nobody without that personal experience, there IS no debate.

If I don't have home-schooled children I may not participate? Or, if I have not made a scientific study of home schooling, I may not participate? Or does one need to have done both to participate? (I do know the answer to that last question, as I don't think you're holding out on us.)

I think you used the wrong word inadvertently. But since I have not performed a study...you are right. I bow out.

Edit:

Oh, nuts, no I don't. Your children became a part of a much larger population when they entered public high school. Because you cared enough to teach them manners, they are polite. They and their own children will benefit from it, and that is due to your hard work.

I, too, have had that comment from almost every teacher regarding my children. I, too, have worked very hard to instill my values in them. It's very, very nice to hear that from others. I wouldn't give that away for anything.

They are both going to college (egad, and at the same time...which is why I'm still working full time), and still get those comments.

It's hard work at home that makes a child polite and motivated. But home schooling does not have a corner on that market. They have a larger percentage because they compose a much smaller sample of youth in America.

Now I'll bow out, and not without kudos to you...they are well deserved.

[ranger]

I did not say home schoolers had a corner on any market.

Your comment was that protecting children from the worst of what the school systems had to offer "Seems insulated. Children will have to face these problems sooner or later, hopefully in an environment where they can safely learn how to do just that. Adulthood is not the time to observe and learn from these situations. Cafeteria food being the exception, of course."

You offer a rebuttal to my experiences yet You offer no proof, you offer no experience, you offer no scientific basis for your opinion. You only offer what I must assume are your feelings.

How is that a rebuttal and how does that advance debate?

[JD3]

I did find this.

Many people who consider the issue of parents teaching their children at home ask, "But what about socialization?" I've observed hundreds of home-schooled children of various ages in various places in two countries, so I'm confident that home-schooling children doesn't harm them socially. But university researchers continue to explore the issue of homeschooling socialization, and here I'll report on a Ph.D. thesis devoted solely to that subject, and on some related research.

http://learninfreedom.ohttp://learninfreedom.org/socialization.htmlrg/socialization.html

[JD3]

I also found this:

One of the silliest and most annoying comments made to homeschooling parents is, "Aren't you concerned about how your child will be able to socialize with others?". What is being implied here is that the homeschooled child is some kind of introverted misfit who cannot relate to other people, children, and the outside world. In reality, most of the homeschooled children that I have known and met are not only outgoing, but polite and respectful, too. This is a sharp contrast to the public school children that I have known, who can't relate to adults and whose behavior is rude and inconsiderate. Realistically, there are some exceptions on both sides.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/zysk1.html

[JD3]

And this:

How will homeschooled children learn to deal with the stresses of the "real world"?
This concern is usually raised by concerned friends and relatives who understand how mean-spirited socialization is in an institutionalized setting and wonder how homeschooled children are going to learn to deal with a bully. Studies have shown that, in general, the people who best cope with stress are the ones who had happy childhoods with good experiences, not the ones who "got tough" by facing bad experiences.

There is nothing about school that is more real than the varied environments in which most homeschoolers spend their time: field trip sites, grocery shores, parks, libraries, businesses and homes.

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/press/socialization.asp

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by JD3
And this:

How will homeschooled children learn to deal with the stresses of the "real world"?
This concern is usually raised by concerned friends and relatives who understand how mean-spirited socialization is in an institutionalized setting and wonder how homeschooled children are going to learn to deal with a bully. Studies have shown that, in general, the people who best cope with stress are the ones who had happy childhoods with good experiences, not the ones who "got tough" by facing bad experiences.

There is nothing about school that is more real than the varied environments in which most homeschoolers spend their time: field trip sites, grocery shores, parks, libraries, businesses and homes.

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/press/socialization.asp It only makes sense to me that one on one instruction is superior to one to thirty.

It makes sense in that relationship the student should learn respect for adults because they are associating more with adults.

And the student is not introduced or encouraged to use drugs of any kind and have sex with anyone. And in this peer environment comes a disrespect for adults since 1) the children do not interact with their parents as frequently as Home Schoolers and 2) It isn't "cool" to be respectful during the teenage years.

Having said that, my 2 children were products of the public school system. One is 35 the other is 28. They grew up in a small town (25k) where there were 5 elementary and one high school. If something went crazy in the school, parents knew and addressed it. No, it wasn't perfect by any means but, it was a different time. It wasn't "cool" or "hip" to homeschool then because schools were in control and median scores were above average. Here in Florida, the school system is 48th out of 50 states. That speaks volumes!

However, if I had to redo it today, in this setting and in these times, I would do everything possible to have my children homeschooled without a doubt.

How's that for fence riding? :D

[JD3]

A fine ride from all I can see.;)

I agree. I have more questions than answers. If I had to go back with my kids knowing what I know now, I'd have considered it. From what I see there is little good in the socialization kids get in high school. Seems to stunt them more than anything else. But that is just observation and not proof by any means.

Again, it just rises questions for me.;)

[ranger]

Thanks JD3 for doing research and coming to your own conclusions.

That is all any homeschooler would ask.

[nick]

For Socialization read brainwashing.American people are not supposed to be Socialized.They do that in Cuba and China.The average public school teacher shouldnt be trusted with used toilet paper.

[JD3]

Originally posted by nick
The average public school teacher shouldnt be trusted with used toilet paper.

Don't make me come over there.:argue: :mad: :mad:

Teachers are less of a problem than peers. At least most teachers care. You be nice to those people now. :mad:

[Simon666]

This requires one parent to stay at home and in many countries only two active working parents can provide enough income. Besides, I tend to fear for the quality of the education.

[JD3]

Originally posted by Simon666
This requires one parent to stay at home and in many countries only two active working parents can provide enough income. Besides, I tend to fear for the quality of the education.

There my be problems. And these problems most likely will vary quite a bit. It would be concievable that one parent would be better at this than another. Still, there are guidlines they have to abid by.

And unfortunately it isn't always feasible for all families.

That said, it still seems to have some success for some and worth allowing those capable fo the opportunity to do so.

[ranger]

Originally posted by Simon666
This requires one parent to stay at home and in many countries only two active working parents can provide enough income. Besides, I tend to fear for the quality of the education.

You are right that generally one parent stays home to provide home schooling. No supporter of home schooling is suggesting it become the main method of educating our children.

If a family is willing to sacrifice one income because they wish to instruct their own children that should be their decission. With so many thousands of middle and lower income families choosing to do so It shows that it is possible to survive on one income in the US..

Your argument is not a reason to not allow home schooling or to suggest it is a bad idea. And in the US we remain free to teach our children at home.

Simon, would you be allowed to keep your children home from the state school and instruct them yourself?

[Simon666]

Originally posted by ranger
Simon, would you be allowed to keep your children home from the state school and instruct them yourself?
I don't know, they have to go to school by law till 18, I don't know whether the system is specified.

[ranger]

You often tell us you are as free as we in the U.S. Would you please find out and let us know?

[Simon666]

Originally posted by ranger
You often tell us you are as free as we in the U.S. Would you please find out and let us know?
Well, I asked and it is allowed. From 7 to 18 we have "learning duty" by law in this country, but the system isn't specified. For those that want to follow home school by a parent there is however an independant exam that needs to be passed in order to determine the children really learned something. It is however pretty rare and I never heard of it, one of my former colleagues knows such a person however.

[Blueangel]

Home-schooling is very rare in the U.K. too, but it does happen.
it's more a case of the parent has to give a solid reason why home-schooling is preferable.
This could be down to many reasons, but the commonest ones used are that the family live in a remote location or that the child is the victim of bullying.
Even when home-schooling is approved, the state sends out supply teachers to monitor the childs progress and assist in planning the prospectus the child needs to learn in order to pass exams.

One example of where I believe home-schooling is extremely beneficial is when the student is educationally advanced beyond their years.
These gifted children need the one to one experience of home-schooling to satiate their needs. My only concern with this is that they may lose out on developing their social skills to some extent.
We've all heard cases of children as young as 12, sitting degrees alongside 21 year olds.

[RepublicanGal]

Heigh-Ho, Ranger!

What rubbed me the wrong way was the original post: What is your personal opinion on homeschooling and why? which was a poll of "personal opinion"...and your idea that I had no right to my opinion unless I found facts through research.

I found the same sites, and more, than JD did...and before JD did. Those are very opinionated. What I was searching for, and didn't find, was a study on:

1. The successes of both types of children as adults.

2. The definition of "success".

3. The breakdown of publicly schooled children into those that had strong home support to augment their schooling, those who had "average" support from their home, and those who had none.

4. Independent studies that were not sponsored by a church group or home schooling organization OR by a public school district or public school organization.

5. More than anecdotal testimony from a few who have tried to home school their children but gave it up. I wanted to know how many slipped through the cracks...how many were made to go to public school because of failure to meet the requirements while home schooled.

I didn't find much, really...and found nothing to influence me strongly. I believe this is a field that, in response to scrutiny and because it is becoming more widely practiced, has not even started to be evaluated thoroughly...not enough to patently claim its place as best.

Your experience is first-hand...but it is one family's experience, albeit a very successful one. My experience is with public schools, and with my children is also a very successful one. In that regard, we stand on the same ground.

I realize that the area where I live has much to do with this. I won't argue that...it's true. Not everyone is as lucky.

However, I have always tended to "believe" (that is, hold an opinion) that the devoted parents who home-school their children have sacrificed much to give their children the best start in life (with one horrendous exception in my experience with families with home-schooled children).

My responses admittedly were somewhat colored by experience, as far as socialization goes. (I might add, it was also colored by some hefty kidney stones...lucky me to be among the 1% of women who have 'em.) At any rate...this entire thread started by asking opinions of us.

[JD3]

There isn't much on this. I agree. And the post was, I think, open to personal opinion.

Maybe we should look at peer influence on high school students and see if that is positive or negative. There might be more studies.;)

[Sandy]

Before any parent can make a decision on this subject we must take a look at what we consider schooling to be. I wanted, demanded, that academics be the first and foremost focus for all the schools my kids attended. I found the right system and simply found a group of parents who were willing to try it out. We took a smelly old motel and brought in trained teachers to guide us through the new system.

My oldest daughter was in a class of 5 and had never met one of these kids before but took to this training like a pro. She had been in daycare for a few months and I knew she was able to handle socialization very well.

I spent a lot of time in the library and even took a ton of classes on early childhood develpment and found that from the age of 4 the child was a human sponge just waiting to be shown vocabulary building and the power of numbers. During the summers many of our mothers were working to pay for our tuition and in the summer months I took them to my home where we continued many of the subjects that were being done in our tiny school. I also taught them to swim. Our front yard became a soccer field and simple catch games. Many of these kids went all the way through the system started in that motel and all did very well in high school. The school now goes through K to 12!

When my kids were all in college I moved up the coast and opened a book store. I was shocked at the lack of reading our local children had. I had ordered the Carden reading list for my store and ended up furnishing them to the Carden teachers in the next county south (Santa Barbara). After 9 years of selling books I decided to help out at a home school a couple of miles away.

It grew from a single family to a group of families in the same neighborhood (Morro Bay) and the academics, social contacts and athletic programs were fabulous. These are simply beach towns on the Pacific Ocean and certainly not Beverly Hills and many of the surrounding neighborhoods began to do the same thing. We called it cluster home schools. With academics being the first thing on the curriculum our students learned to take on other subjects when they got into college. They had no science labs but our local junior college furnished scientific classes for the kids during the summers. This college taught langauages, music, science and chess! all at a low cost. For working parents this is the best thing around.

To me this is the future of our children. Either starting a small private school or joining up with the neighbors for a cluster school program can help tremendously in the development of the brains of our children. There is a lot of information and training schedules for home schools if people really want to do it. Every Educational Book store in America has text books for home schools. The real educators of America know this is absolutely necessary for the development of our children.

Our public schools are limited by federal mandates and uncaring parents.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Sandy
Our public schools are limited by federal mandates and uncaring parents.
Nothing else needs to be said!

[JD3]

Well, I really haven't spent a lot of time on this because I only have a mild curiousity, but I did fine these:

Peer Pressure
Today's youth face pressures from many unprecedented factors, not only peers

By Karen Kittredge, M.S.W., M.Div., and Alice R. McCarthy, Ph.D.

The face of peer pressure is changing for this generation, in keeping with the many other societal changes they must address. Dorothy Cantor, Psychologist and former president of the American Psychological Association (APA), says, "Every generation feels like its generation has it the toughest. I think this generation today might be the most challenged since the industrial revolution."

Recent studies support the common sense judgment that adolescents today are facing a different world than even one generation ago. Nicholas Zill, Ph.D., director of the Child and Family Study Area at the prestigious survey research firm Westat, is co-author of the Child Trends report, Running in Place: How American Families Are Faring in a Changing Economy and an Individualistic Society (www.childtrends.org). In this report, Zill speaks about recent societal changes that may make today's youth more vulnerable to peer influence, targeting four main points:

1. Adult authority is weaker and more fragmented.
2. Young people are spending more time with peers, with very little regular interaction with adults.
3. Teenagers have more freedom in their own lives than previous generations of young people. They have greater freedom of choice regarding friends, school commitments, sexual activity and career paths.
4. The mass media industry exposes adolescents to a much broader range of experiences, influencing young people in ways that are still under study.

The peer culture in most U.S. high schools is working against the goals of parents, according to Zill's study. Parents report that they do not want their teenagers to smoke or drink, yet the majority of high school students have friends at school who think these activities are okay. More than 80 percent of high school students can easily get cigarettes at school and almost half have no problem getting alcohol. Parents want their teens to do well in school, and most students have high goals as well. Yet less than 40 percent of high school students say they have friends at school who think it is very important to work hard for good grades, and less than 30 percent have friends who say it is very important to behave well in school.

# http://www.childresearch.net/CYBRARY/NEWS/200006.HTM

Study: Peers sway a child's interest in smoking, drinking as early as 6th grade


January 23, 2001
Web posted at: 1:31 a.m. EST (0631 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Young people's attitude toward smoking and drinking may develop as early as sixth grade and is greatly influenced by friends, according to a study released Tuesday by the National Institutes of Health.

Bruce Simons-Morton, one of the study researchers, said a young person's affiliation with those who smoke or drink was the most powerful peer influence.

"Sixth, seventh or eighth graders were nine times more likely to smoke and five times more likely to drink if they had two or more friends who smoke and drank," said Simons-Morton, who has studied youth and health issues for years.

The study also found that simply associating with smokers and drinkers carried a stronger influence than being offered a cigarette or a drink. Study results are based on data collected from a confidential survey about drinking and smoking given to 4,200 teens in Maryland's junior high schools.

# http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/01/23/teen.drinking/

Peer pressure a big factor in achievement gap, some say
By Clarke Morrison and Melissa Williams
Sept. 30, 2003 11:29 p.m.

ASHEVILLE - African-American students often suffer from peer pressure that discourages excelling in academics and taking advanced courses. Those that do can be accused of "acting white."

Jamal Mullen, now a student at UNC Asheville, faced that kind of adversity growing up, said his father, Dwight Mullen, a professor at the university.

"Jamal had to deal with the choice of living among his peers and us always pushing him to take honors classes and to go to college," he said. "There was no neutral ground for him.

"A lot of young brothers look at studying as something that will make you a geek. That type of thing starts in middle school and earlier, and it can really take hold. Sometimes parents can forget how tough it is for kids. But the kids know. They definitely know."

# http://cgi.citizen-times.com/cgi-bin/story/buncombe_news/42712

I am concerned about peer pressure. It seems to be getting worse to me.

[RepublicanGal]

Nope, nothing else need be said. Wrap that one in a box, ttie it with a ribbon, and put it on a shelf. No hope for the future of the public school system. What a relief not to have to worry about it. They're not my kids, after all. Glad I have that off my mind.

Oops, late post.

JD3 psts:

" 3. Teenagers have more freedom in their own lives than previous generations of young people. They have greater freedom of choice regarding friends, school commitments, sexual activity and career paths."

This is where so many people are missing my point. Just as with any other form of schooling, this is the key...the support and guidance of the parents at home. Merely because public schools have so many more types of families and backgrounds, caring or non-caring, does not mean that a child cannot get a good education in a public school.

Where would all these uncaring parents place their children without mandatory public schooling?

And why hasn't anyone addressed the issue of tenure? I rather thought we'd hear an opinion of that...so I guess I will open the topic. Do you think that has harmed the public school system?

This is not to say that peer pressure is not of great concern to me. How can the public school system fight that with the same measure as private schools (which are not immune) or other schools? Impossible task...or fighting PC mentality in the school districts?

[JD3]

I certainly wouldn't argue that you can't get a good education in a public school. Certainly some kids do at some public schools.

But I would question the social aspects of school. They should be, IMHO, downplayed and academics emphasised.

And I am not sure that homeschooling isn't a valid alternative for some -- not everyone.

As for this:

"Where would all these uncaring parents place their children without mandatory public schooling?"

Out causing more trouble than they are now. Some schools have become baby sitting institutions. And I think this needs to be addressed as well.

And tenure? Well I don't have tenure. It is a perk that is losing favor across the country. But I'd take it if offered. ;)

[Sandy]

Peer group pressure is only a threat when the child has no self image or goals set before him/her. I despise group-think and refuse to fall prey to it. I remember my own groupies hanging out on the Santa Monica beaches during the early 40s. Even then pot was making the rounds but never in our group because we knew it was wrong! Only the bad kids did pot and also wandered around our stores stealing merchandise. Many of us had parents who were merchants and we were told to follow the rules set down at the dinner table. It was not difficult at all.

We had a lot of freedom in those days and I never recall anyone waiting for us when we got home. When I first got married I saw a terrible threat coming out of our television set. I r emember Lassie and how many times his mother would tell Timmy not to go into the forrest but within 5 minutes, the little creep did just that and Lassie would always save him at the last minute. I had known Russ Weatherwax (Lassie's trainer) and was sorry not to allow this show in my home. I also went to high school with June Lockhardt and raised hell with her from representing such a weak parent. She was a tough mother in person and she understood what I meant.

Next came the music being featured on the television shows. The girls did not dance they sexually gyrated in most disgusting ways and that did it for me. I turned the television out of the house.

I had two little girls and a step son in his teens and we started to discuss all these things at our dinner table. They didn't even miss the television and it's disappearance was never mentioned.

I remember hearing a lecture at one of my classes at UCLA about cutting peer pressure off at the pass. I explained to my kids were always alone even when in a group. They had no one watching them to see if they did something wrong but they had a built in sense of right and wrong and should learn to trust it and use it all the time. I countered the horrible music by playing the good classics day and night i n our home. No, I don't mean Sinatra but Brahms, Bach and Mozart. They grew up with these melodies and found the new rock that was starting rather dull.

I also opened up the discussion of why certain actions were wrong but they had listened to me on this subject for so long there were no questions! We attended all that was offered in L.A. and made constant visits to the zoo, the art galleries and the Hollywood Bowl. We hung out at the beach where many of their friends also met and we all seemed to be like one happy family.

My kids were never allowed to go to the mall with people I didn't know but I was always ready to take them afterschool. I was considered a cool mom

My girls now in their 40s and I can never recall a single time when I even imagined that they were doing something wrong. They also knew I was too square to get into much trouble. I did date some exciting actors but I never had them sleep over and I never slept over as long as my girls lived with me. I raised a little hell after they went to college but hell, I'd missed the whole sexual revolution and spent a year or two catching up.

I preferred reading books anyway! Give the kids a good social life away from the peer groups and the problem will never arise. I had horses and they also knew that one broken rule would mean no horses for a month or longer. I was mean as a snake.

[JD3]

Yeah, I hate groupthink as well, or as former professor used to call it, collective ignorence.

But I think for the question boils down to when are children strong enough to deal with it? And how big a problem is it thrust them into large groups that are particular prone to group think.

I don't really have an answer, but I think many homescholers fear this as much as lack of academic rigor.

[Sandy]

Well, I took a look at what I feared for my kids and it came down to drugs, alcohol and bad manners. I had covered all the basis about stealing, lying and everything else. Having raised and bred horses they knew that sex meant having babies so they knew enough to not play with that one. I had a family full of drunks and addicts and simply pointing them out was enough. We had built in good manners from day one so I quit worrying.

Taking the time to make the kids aware of what would be unacceptable seemed to do the trick. Remember that they went from a tiny one motel room school to a Christian school in the mountains and then on to a college prep school where excellence in everything was part of the program.

Both girls went directly to Berkeley from there and not a single problem showed up.

[JD3]

Sounds like the ideal. Believe me, there are harder areas to raise kids.;)

[Sandy]

Joe, I get the impression that many parents are afraid of their kids. Parents are afraid to lay down the rules of the household and tend to wait until some major rule is broken and then they ofter overreact to the situation. They often become so uncomfortable around their children that they actually prefer the television to the company of their own children.

The kids are not prepared for the classroom and get too little sleep to even plan the next day. I also doubt they are being fed a healthy diet and get enough exercise.

It was a full time job for me to do all this as a single mother but I couldn't find a single reason for not squeezing in the time needed. I was lucky that I worked at home in the evenings and did all my actor's fittings in my own living room. The girls accompanied me to the theater or studio if they weren't in school and I kept a close eye on them.

[Essendon]

I don't see anything wrong with homeschooling as long as the kdis involved socialised with peers outside of school which I assume they do.

[Sandy]

Cale, it is virtually impossible for kids not to play afterschool with their friends. Homeschooling doesn't mean total confinement.

My kids were on tennis teams, vollyball teams at the beach, soccer was the big thing too. Both girls were girl scouts and met in the local library backroom with kids they did not go to school with.

Unless one lives on a mountain top it takes a bit of driving to get the kids down to where the activities are and that is exactly what I had to do. The home schools that we should worry about are run by weird religious people who live in fear of the devil or some such ghost. That Texas woman (Andrea Gates) who drowned all her kids was a home school teacher and flipped when she felt the devil had entered her kids minds. Her husband knew what was happening but was a member of the same Fundamentalist church and shrugged it off. These are dangerous people! Most parents who home school simply want the academics to be their main course of study.

[JD3]

Originally posted by Sandy
Joe, I get the impression that many parents are afraid of their kids. Parents are afraid to lay down the rules of the household and tend to wait until some major rule is broken and then they ofter overreact to the situation. They often become so uncomfortable around their children that they actually prefer the television to the company of their own children.

The kids are not prepared for the classroom and get too little sleep to even plan the next day. I also doubt they are being fed a healthy diet and get enough exercise.

It was a full time job for me to do all this as a single mother but I couldn't find a single reason for not squeezing in the time needed. I was lucky that I worked at home in the evenings and did all my actor's fittings in my own living room. The girls accompanied me to the theater or studio if they weren't in school and I kept a close eye on them.

I agree. I remember a mother picking up her daughter from my home and as the mother talked to me the kid told her to shut up. When she replied with a she had to go, I decide to tell the kid not to talk to her mother that way.

I was really shocked that the mother took it from both of us. I like my kids. Proud of them too. And I rarely if ever spanked. But no child would or will ever tell me to shut up more than once.

And I don't regret that me an my wife always made sure someone was home with the kids. That and that we only had one TV without cable. They love PBS, it was the only one we got with a clear picture. ;)

[Sandy]

You did right Joe. The other day I was just leaving our local Safeway market when a child no more than 3 years old was playing on the automatic door opener. Her mother who was buying a lotto ticket screamed at her to leave the door alone the Kid didn't hear her or had leaned to turn off her voice. 3 times the mother yelled out for Agatha to come back to her. I stopped and said sternly "Agatha you heard your mother! Move it!" No one could come in or out of the store without letting her out. The kid looked at me and turned and ran to her mother. I knew that kid wasn't deaf just stubborn. The woman followed me out and screamed at me all the way to my car. I frightened her poor little girl and I never said a word back to her. Maybe she saw what a stern command could do if it saved her kid from being run down. I will never know!

I thought about allowing only PBS into the house but my home was placed on a mountain top in the Santa Monica mountains where I could get all stations from Long Beach up to Santa Barbara so I pulled the set out of the house. This was long before cable was installed in any of our homes in California.

[JD3]

I'd like to say I went with PBS for good moral reasons, but it was really just a fight with a satilite dish salesman. We lived out were cable didn't hadn't made it yet. We were looking at buying a dish. I was a tad uncomfortable about the price. I still might have gotten the dish if he hadn't told me I had no choice but to buy the dish. I stubbornly felt the need to exercise choice.

Anyway, it went so well, I just left it that way.

I do beleive we need to take our kids back. We need to insist on it. They must behave and show respect. I do not advocate beating them. But there must be no doubt as to who is in charge. This can be done lovingly, and firmly.

We should start classes today!;)

[Sandy]

Bravo Joe. However, I believe you may have started this before now.

Television has also been a terrible influence on the parents as well as the kids. I find it troubling to listen to the insults that parents and kids toss back and forth.

When I was about 6 years old I was doing something for my grandmother in her large kitchen. She had her washer and dryer also in this room but still preferred to hang her clothes on the lines in the back yard. She said something to me and my answer was "Says Who" It took her 2 seconds to walk over and kick my arse out the kitchen back door where I landed in the middle of the grass. She had her arms full of wet sheets and never dropped a single one. I've often thought she would have made a first rate soccer player, Gosh her feet were fast!!! I've never said those words to anyone again.