Paganism should be taught in schools?

[Sandy]

I am an admitted Atheist and had a very interesting experience when I was last in England. I was with a class from University of Santa Barbara and got away from the students for the day and got on a tour bus to visit Stonehenge. This famous circle of stones was supposedly built by Druids and a magical aura could be felt on this sacred place.

We were there on a day when the Pagan women were allowed to dance and drape flowers around the location and sing (hum) their songs as they danced. I was fascinated! I felt drawn into this group of women. When I was a young mother I would take my kids to a hill in the Malibu mountains that we called Lupin Hill. In the center of this hill was a 400 year old oak tree. We made garlands and we danced around this magnificent tree and we felt very light headed and wonderful. It was a totally different experience than attending any church ceremony. Just think, that tree was a tree when Elizabeth the First was Queen of England.

When the Renaissance Faire came to our area the girls and I discovered that this pagan dancing around a circle was very much part of their (England's) harvest and they even had a may pole brought into the fair in the northern part of the state.

I saw these Pagan women dance in the oldest monument to religion in the entire world. Our guide said Stonehenge preceeded the Pyramids. Wow, this was fascinating!

When I returned home and wrote up a short article on my experience I discovered that a group of young women had decided to do the same thing and I was asked to join them. The village where I lived decided it was an abomination and several of the Christian women actually threatened our pagan women to get out of town. Many did and one couple who managed a book store had their front yard set on fire.

I remember the dances and the music they sang and what would the Christians do if I decided to return to the classroom and teach pagan dancing? I'm just mean enough to try it!!!

[bama47]

I'm all for it if they teach Christian values in school. By the way God says there are no atheists. In his Holy Word he says he put the knowledge of a supreme being in every person. So I don't believe in atheists lol

[Captain America]

So I don't believe in atheists lol

But you DO believe in a virgin having a baby, water turning to wine, a guy dies for three days then he is alive again, an ocean parting and a zillion slaves cross it, walking on a dry ocean floor, a big boat with two of every type animal known to man, the earth being made in 6 days, a stick turning into a serpent, Moses and a tab of ten commandments, should I go on??

Ever had anyone pee in your hair and tell you it's raining? Did you believe them?

Just kidding around with you. Have a nice day.

[Dissent]

Sandy – it’s sad but it doesn’t surprise me much.

I think we should be teaching ppl about all religions but not to preach, just to open minds – ignorance breeds fear.
Besides, religion is fascinating . . . doesn’t mean it’s right though ;)

In the end, we should let children decide for themselves what religion they wish to be with or if they choose to become Atheists or even Nihilistic. As long as we learn not to fear each other.

[Sandy]

Dissent. I would rather have the schools take on the academics first. All the religion does nothing to an uneducated mine. Academics first and then when they get old enough to study comparative religious they will have the ability to think through each one. I don't want any subject taught by rote which is the way the Christians handle their classes. I want open and honest discussions on all the academic subjects.

Reading and writing first. Math and History next. Science and religion to end it up. Phonics to teach reading especially oral reading and French to learn a non-phonics language. Many private schools follow this schedule and it always works! The final word is NO DRUGS! Not even Ritalin! It dulls the brain.

[gopman]

Knowledge of other cultures is just as important to the education of a productive citizen as is reading or math.

[Sandy]

For a deeper understanding of culture, it is important for the brain to understand their own and other cultures of the world. Today, take a look at what many Americans call culture. It is totally within the television set. America kids are culturally deprived even of their own family traditions.

My own culture is far more to the European style as my family were devoted to the arts, theater and music of the world. I grew up with opera, Shakespeare and classical music 24/7. We had no television and I bought my first set in 1983 when I opened my bookstore and wanted to watch football. My kids never saw a television set until they married men with one. It was never a part of our lives.

We all need to recognize our own cultures and then build a vocabulary to be able to discuss what we know and intelligence to learn what we don't know. That should be around 9th grade when our children start to pay attention to others that may even be different.

[Captain America]

I am so far down the line of American generations that I haven't a clue as to what, where, when, or why my ancestors were about before the boat. I wish I knew more about the cultures that brought me. I know that I am a lily-white southern boy but that's as far as I can take it.

People ask me from time to time what country my ancestors were from. The best I can answer is Texas. That in itself is the truth, as Texas used to be it's own country, or republic, if you prefer.

But where before Texas? I wish I knew. I wish I was smart enough to find out and nobody in my immediate family has a clue either.:(

Lost in Paradise.

Captain America

[Duo_Maxwell]

one of our most "cherished" holidays is a pagan idea. take a guess. Starts with a C and ends with a -hristmas.

[xexon]

Good ol Yule Day.

Throw another Yule log on the fire !



x

[Dissent]

Sandy –
Learning and awareness of other cultures and even religion, I don’t think has any prerequisites, it should start from a basic family level anyway.
Yes it’s important to build a way for students to express themselves but I think we should be encouraging students to become aware, to seek out information and be critical for themselves of what is already there (such as television) at an early as possible age.
Having one have to learn subjects such as maths and science first isn’t as important. I don’t think it hurts to give students a basic all rounder of all areas and letting them choose their own path. Many kids get put off learning anything by force – in that case school no longer becomes something to enjoy but turns to resentment.

We all learn in different ways and not everything we learn is at school but encouraging ppl to seek out knowledge of whatever, whenever and be critical is an important lesson to carry with you even after school

[bama47]

Of course I believe everything in the Bible and what happened-if not I would throw it away. God can do anything. Don't limit his power in your life.

Why couldn't an all-powerful God make water into wine. That is simple for him.

[Captain America]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well, if Rumplestilskin can spin straw into gold, and Santa Claus can deliver all those presents, I guess some guy in the sky could turn water into wine.

Never say never I guess.

I do wish I could escape to a world of make believe. This reality is starting to suck.

Good luck Bama. If you see Lil' Red Riding Hood in your adventures, tell her that I did NOT tell everyone that her Grandma had a wart on her butt. I just said it FELT like one.:lol:

[Sandy]

My mother was a musician and traveled all over the world with opera singers and doing second piano work with other good musicians. For that reason I was deposited on my grandparents doorstep around the age of 2. My grandfathers family came from Wales and everyone else from Scotland.

My father's clan was MacNab which was "Son of the Abbot" and mother's was Campbell!

I have been James Michener fan for many years and was tickled to learn that his book "Texas" was the story of my father's clan the MacNabs. From listening to my grandparents talk about their grandparents is was interesting to see how close to the clan's history Michener was.

Capt. my whole family were journalists and the Mormon migration to Utah was validated by several members of my extensive family. Tough people and survived through every possible fight, famine and drought possible and still lived to breed thousands of family members. We also traveled to Utah every year to check up on the rest of the clans and I got to meet thousands of cousins at these meetings. I was an only child but raised in a mad house of musicians. My grandmother's home was the center of the universe for me and my many cousins.

Mormons also do geneologist studies and I'm certain one of my cousins has traced even the my children's birth announcements. I am not that interested in my family history and am focused on the future of the family not the past.

In my book Texas is enough to prove your citizenship!

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Captain America
So I don't believe in atheists lol

But you DO believe in a virgin having a baby, water turning to wine, a guy dies for three days then he is alive again, an ocean parting and a zillion slaves cross it, walking on a dry ocean floor, a big boat with two of every type animal known to man, the earth being made in 6 days, a stick turning into a serpent, Moses and a tab of ten commandments, should I go on??

Ever had anyone pee in your hair and tell you it's raining? Did you believe them?

Just kidding around with you. Have a nice day.
LOL :D Good one.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by bama47
Of course I believe everything in the Bible and what happened-if not I would throw it away. God can do anything. Don't limit his power in your life.
You condone slavery, polygamy and treating women like sex objects?

[DRMIZER]

Heard a good one today. A first grade teacher in one of our schools in Florida was talking about the tooth fairy. Since these are 6 year olds, the subject soon led into Santa Claus.

The teacher did not say she didn't believe in Santa but her remarks somehow led some of the class to begin to doubt the existence of Santa. Well now, that just couldn't be.

Having learned of this, the principle of the school put in an "emergency call to the North Pole". Santa appeared and all was well again.

If our children can't go to school and get the truth from adults, then where? Rather than letting the subject drop, the school felt they had to cover their arses and add to the lie by producing a myth.

Gee, wonder where the respect went for adults in this country? Duh.

Does the same kind of thing happen in religion? Do you think? From the time we are infants, mothers and fathers teach their children about God and THE SPECIFIC RELIGION they belong to. It's engrained from birth.

There is one in the bible that says, "Teach a child the way he should go and he will not depart therefrom when he is old." Oops, missed me on that one.

[Blueangel]

Originally posted by Sandy
Mormons also do geneologist studies and I'm certain one of my cousins has traced even the my children's birth announcements. Sorry to be pedantic, but the term you're refering to is genealogist.

I was surprised to see that you didn't mention Geography and the Arts in your recommendations for a sound education.
We all need maps and musicians ;)

CA...the absolute easiest way to trace your family history is by viewing the Mormon IGI (International Genealogical Index).
It's available to view on microfiche at most libraries in the UK so I would expect it to be even easier for you to access in the US.

I researched my family tree about 10years ago and it was quite easy and quite addictive. within two weeks of casual research, I had traced my family back to the 1720's
If you ever liked jigsaw puzzles as a kid you should take to it.

The biggest problem you could encounter is if you have Irish heritage. The I.R.A. blew up the public records office in the 1970's and only about 20% of their records survived.

[Captain America]

Training our children to believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause prepares them for church indoctrination. It's an excercize in faith.;)

[Duo_Maxwell]

Training our children to believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause prepares them for church indoctrination. It's an excercize in faith.

Are you trying to scare me? It's working.

[Captain America]

Well, if a child can convince theirself that Santa is real, how much harder can it possibly be to believe in jesus, God, et al? Really, one is no more rediculous than the other.

Try to convince a grown adult there is a Santa. No way. That's why you gotta start 'em young!

[Sandy]

Capt. You are very right. I never promoted the myth of Jesus or Santa Claus. I'm certain my kids believed in Santa Claus and even the Easter bunny because it seemed such fun to see them enjoy those two holidays.

We are going to spend Christmas week in a place in Arizona that is supposed to have a mystical magnetic force discovered by the Indians. It is called Sedona and is circled by red rocks that are huge and beautiful. I used to visit it with my Grandfather but haven't been back for over 50 years. I will be interested to see if my daughter and her husband can detect this spiritual feeling.

They are both tuned to the arts with music and paintings are a major part of their hobbies. I'm simply a pagan who has a fascination with mountains and trees. Sort of an old hippie!!!

I doubt I will be dancing around any trees because it is freezing in that climate. My bones don't do cold things!!!

I just read your description and nearly fell off my chair laughing!

[Captain America]

I'm an old hippy too baby girl. You Christmas plans sound absolutely grand. In case I forget, I do wish you and yours a wonderful holiday season. Now, is it my turn to load that peace-pipe? It'll knock your socks off if I do!

[Sandy]

The peace pipe sounds good to me. Do I have to inhale?

[Captain America]

A good democrat never inhales;)

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Captain America
Well, if a child can convince theirself that Santa is real, how much harder can it possibly be to believe in jesus, God, et al? Really, one is no more rediculous than the other.

Try to convince a grown adult there is a Santa. No way. That's why you gotta start 'em young!

Where's that hammer. . . . . .you hit the nail on the head! :whack:

[Strel]

And a good Captain never exhales!!!

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Strelnikov
And a good Captain never exhales!!! There you go. . . . . . . . .

[Sandy]

<<A good democrat never inhales>>

Hmmm, I'm a Libertarian which means it's completely up to me, doesn't it?

[Captain America]

Weed will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no weed.

Where's that hammer. . . . . .you hit the nail on the head!

Yes, much to the dismay of others, sometimes, I do have that tendancy to see through the fog rather clearly. Must be a condition I developed by years and years of smoky filled atmospheres.;)

[Malone1234]

But you DO believe in a virgin having a baby, water turning to wine, a guy dies for three days then he is alive again, an ocean parting and a zillion slaves cross it

Come on now, even the most generous estimates only put the Hebrew population of Egypt at a half a quadrillion.

[Strel]

"Weed will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no weed."



So true. Tell me that you got this from the Freak Brothers comic book, eh??? I still have one around somewhere.


;)