Science lessons - Qur'an

[logic85]

You thought the Old Testament science was bad?? These will crack you up:

Bukhari:V4B55N546 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Gabriel has just now told me of the answer. If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble him, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her.’”

Tabari I:258/Qur’an 15:26 “Allah created Adam from sticky clay, meaning viscous and sweet smelling slime, being stinking. It became stinking slime after having been compact soil.”

Tabari I:258 “Allah sent Gabriel to the earth to bring Him some clay. The earth said, ‘I take refuge in Allah against you mutilating me. Then He sent the angel of death. He took some soil from the earth and made a mixture. He did not take it from a single place but took red, white, and black soil. Therefore, the children of Adam came out different.”

Bukhari:V4B54N430 “Allah’s Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, ‘Regarding the matter of the creation of a human being: humans are put together in the womb of the mother in forty days. Then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period. He becomes a piece of flesh for forty days. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things: the new creature’s deeds, livelihood, date of death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched. He will do whatever is written for him.’”

Bukhari:V4B54N482 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The Hell Fire complained to its Lord saying, “O my Lord! My different parts are eating each other up.” So, He allowed it to take two breaths, one in winter, the other in summer. This is the reason for the severe heat and bitter cold you find in weather.’”

Bukhari:V1B10N510 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If it is very hot, the severity of the heat is from the raging of the Hell Fire.’”

Tabari I:236 “‘When the sun rises upon its chariot from one of those springs it is accompanied by 360 angels with outspread wings…. When Allah wishes to test the sun and the moon, showing His servants a sign and thereby getting them to obey, the sun tumbles from the chariot and falls into the deep end of that ocean. When Allah wants to increase the significance of the sign and frighten His servants severely, all of the sun falls and nothing of it remains in the chariot. That is a total eclipse of the sun. It is a misfortune for the sun.’”

Bukhari:V4B54N421 “I walked hand in hand with the Prophet when the sun was about to set. We did not stop looking at it. The Prophet asked, ‘Do you know where the sun goes at sunset?’ I replied, ‘Allah and His Apostle know better.’ He said, ‘It travels until it falls down and prostrates Itself underneath the Throne. The angels who are in charge of the sun prostrate themselves, also. The sun asks permission to rise again. It is permitted. Then it will prostrate itself again but this prostration will not be accepted. The sun then says, “My Lord, where do You command me to rise, from where I set or from where I rose?” Allah will order the sun to return whence it has come and so the sun will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the statement of Allah in the Qur’an.’”

Tabari I:204 “I asked the Prophet, ‘Where was Allah before His creation?’ Muhammad replied: ‘He was in a cloud with no air underneath or above it.’”

Tabari I:219 “When Allah wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke hovered loftily over it. He called it ‘heaven.’ Then He dried out the water and made it earth. He split it and made it seven earths on Sunday. He created the earth upon a big fish, that being the fish mentioned in the Qur’an. By the Pen, the fish was in the water. The water was upon the back of a small rock. The rock was on the back of an angel. The angel was on a big rock. The big rock was in the wind. The fish became agitated. As a result, the earth quaked, so Allah anchored the mountains and made it stable. This is why the Qur’an says, ‘Allah made for the earth firmly anchored mountains, lest it shake you up.’”


This is just some of the absurdities..how can anyone take this nonsense seriously? I think that if somebody was to really study this text closely, they would see what a pack of garbage it is.

[Michele]

Logic85,

your motives come into grave question, especially, with this thread. You are not attempting to call the koran into question on the basis of science. Well I guess you haven't spoken intimately with any creationists lately and was it islam that had old world europe believing the world is flat?

for god sakes at the least they actually speak of the woman's woman rather than an immaculate conception.

[Ronnieraygun]

Logic,


Would you be so kind as to provide the source for your information?

This wasn't taken verbatim from the Qur"an.

[Thermopylae]

<mod edit>

[marv]

"Holy" books are books of myth and morality and not textbooks of science. Take them for what they are; writings by man from over the centuries and edited by man over the centuries. They are worth their grain - and only their grain - of truth.

[Platypus]

Logic,


Would you be so kind as to provide the source for your information?

This wasn't taken verbatim from the Qur"an.

No, it was taken verbatim from Prophet of Doom (http://www.prophetofdoom.net).

[Michele]

so what are you saying. the quotes are being pulled straight from the islamist manifesto's themselves. Well. they are manipulated verse. That is fact.

"In Prophet Of Doom you’ll see why Muslims celebrate their “victories,” no matter how many innocents perish. "

and what is memorial day... and the remembrance of V-day.... how bout the fourth of july.... oh our semantics are different... which can be construed as the glorification of war all made to look righteous as either a celebration of victory or independence, a memorial for the dead... but when looking at Islam and through the prism of the perversions of the islamists.... who are invoking end times BTW... it is somehow seen as a celebrating of the death of innocence. and this interpretation is then being extrapolated to all of Islam.

It can't be right to vilify a whole religion like this. This is the crusades this is what occurred the attempted persecution of all non-believers. This can not be good.

[Michele]

Logic,


Would you be so kind as to provide the source for your information?

This wasn't taken verbatim from the Qur"an.


there were no sources provided in the other thread either. Logic kept insisting we didn't need any for the versus spoke for themselves... I don't agree... but I would never just fill a thread with all the questionable versus of the book or the talmud and then forward an argument that either of those were evil and should be erradicated.

That is wrong. It can't be right. It just goes against my very grain as a human being. It can not be right that we are to now rip apart one whole religion. it is not bad enough we have intruded upon that region since the ottoman's fell.

well no wonder the terrorists have infiltrated themselves all over the world wishing now to make it all Islamist not that of Islam... practicing muslims do not even wish for the Islamists to take over. That is fact.

What perhaps is true is that these extremists should have been distempered but with the constant intrusion from russia and the US and Germany and the UK and france and the coups and the gun traficking and the balfour and all of this instability... it is only to be expected for extreme fundamentalists to get more and more venomous.... now to the degree that they will attack their own countries as we see in Saudi Arabia. As our on anti-government groups will do as illustrated by timothy mc vie.

we are in grave trouble if truly the american collective wishes to vilify a whole religion based on false information ..... to the degree that with no real bases of either theological discourse people will just fill a thread with garbage.

It it just hard for me to understand. Well of course there is distrust from the Muslim world even the vast majority who will not pick up arms.

[ramzi]

Logic,


Would you be so kind as to provide the source for your information?

This wasn't taken verbatim from the Qur"an.

I don't even know if those are real quotes. I googled a couple, and they only show up on sites that are critical of Islam, but those would not come from the Qur'an. They are part of the Hadith which, I think, is similar to the Talmud. They are discussions of their religions main books (the Qur'an and the Torah) and laws.

[Michele]

I don't even know if those are real quotes. I googled a couple, and they only show up on sites that are critical of Islam, but those would not come from the Qur'an. They are part of the Hadith which, I think, is similar to the Talmud. They are discussions of their religions main books (the Qur'an and the Torah) and laws.


well Jeez ramzi where have you been. I am mad at you! I say as I tap my foot on the ground and cross my arms in irritation.


can you imagine this poster comes on line esblishes himself as an anti zionist and then pollutes two threads with this garbage... expecting us all to just call for the destruction of a whole religion. and as you can see some posting were happy to oblige. what is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

[Michele]

Bukhari:V4B54N430 “Allah’s Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, ‘Regarding the matter of the creation of a human being: humans are put together in the womb of the mother in forty days. Then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period. He becomes a piece of flesh for forty days. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things: the new creature’s deeds, livelihood, date of death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched. He will do whatever is written for him.’”

Okay well I found this: Islam & Science In red are two hadeeths that pertain to embryonic development.

It is known from the Qur'aan that Adam (‘alaihi salaam) was favored over the angels by virtue of the knowledge given to him by AllahAllah. The Qur'aanic story contradicts that of the Bible which Muslims hold to have been distorted. According to the Qur'aan, the fact that Adam was given knowledge is a mark of honor, and not the cause of his expulsion from Paradise. Hence, if one discusses Islam and science with Western thinkers, they tend to expect an argument similar to what they have in their own religious and cultural context. That is why they react with surprise when they are presented with the crystal clear facts of the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

Among those who were taken by surprise is Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. When we first met him, Professor Simpson insisted on verifying the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. We were able, however, to remove his suspicion. We presented to him the text outlining the development of the embryo. We proved to him that the Qur'aan informs us that the hereditary and the chromosomal make-up of the new being take place only after a successful union between the sperm and the ovum. As we know, these chromosomes contain all the characteristics which the new human being will have such as the color of the eyes, skin, hair, etc.

Hence, many of the details in the human being’s make-up are determined in his chromosomes. These chromosomes begin to form during the early nutfah stage of embryonic development. In other words, the distinguishing features of the new human being are determined from the very beginning at the nutfah stage. AllahAllah, the Most Exalted, the Most Glorified, has stated this fact in the Qur'aan:

Woe to man! What has made him reject AllahAllah? From what stuff has He created him? From a sperm-drop: He has created him, and then molded him in due proportion. (Qur'aan 80:17-19)

During the first 40 days of gestation, all the body parts and organs are completely, though consecutively formed. We can notice in Figure 2.1 that the organs begin to be formed, assembled, and the fetus appears twisted. The Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), has informed us in a hadeeth that: In every one of you, all components of your creation are gathered together in your mothers’ womb by 40 days. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim and Al-Bukhaari).

In another Hadeeth, Prophet Muhammad sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: When forty-two nights have passed over the drop (nutfah), AllahAllah sends an angel to it, who shapes it and makes its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones. Then he says, “O Lord, is it male or female?” and your Lord decides what he wishes. (Muslim).

Professor Simpson studied these two hadeeths extensively, noting that the first 40 days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those hadeeths. Then during one of the conferences which he attended he gave the following opinion: "So that the two hadeeths that have been noted can provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before 40 days. Again, the point had been made repeatedly by other speakers this morning that these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of their recording."


more...

http://www.it-is-truth.org/IslamAndScience.shtml

[Michele]

and not only that ---- there really is a Dr. Joe leigh simpson and here is a real player video of a lecture he gave with regard to these hadeeths on embryonic development as mentioned in my above post:

www.islam-guide.com/video/simpson-1-56k.smi

and here is a statement from a Dr. Moore a former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists. He was honoured by the Canadian Association of Anatomists with the prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the Honoured Member Award of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists "for outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy."

"For the past three years, I have worked with the Embryology Committee of King cAbdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, helping them to interpret the many statements in the Qur'an and Sunnah referring to human reproduction and prenatal development. At first I was astonished by the accuracy of the statements that were recorded in the 7th century AD, before the science of embryology was established. Although I was aware of the glorious history of Muslim scientists in the 10th century AD, and some of their contributions to Medicine, I knew nothing about the religious facts and beliefs contained in the Qur'an and Sunnah."[2]

At a conference in Cairo he presented a research paper and stated:

"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah." [1]

Professor Moore also stated that:

"...Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge.

"The intensive studies of the Qur'an and Hadith in the last four years have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D... the descriptions in the Qur'an cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century..."[1]

Here is Simpson statement regarding the same hadith's:

Joe Leigh Simpson


Professor and Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA.


Prof. Simpson presenting a research paper.
He is the President of the American Fertility Society. He has received many awards, including the Association of Professors of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Public Recognition Award in 1992. Like many others, Professor Simpson was taken by surprise when he discovered that the Qur'an and Hadith contain verses related to his specialised field of study. When he met with Sheikh Abdul-Majeed A.Zindani, he insisted on verifying the text presented to him from the Qur'an and Hadith.


"... these Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the 'writer'... It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Qur'an shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Qur'an having been derived from God."


Dr. Maurice Bucaille the author of a best-seller, "The Bible, The Qur'an and Science" (1976). His classical studies of the scriptural languages, including Arabic, in association with his knowledge of hieroglyphics, have allowed him to hold a multidisciplinary inquiry, in which his personal contribution as a medical doctor has produced conclusive arguments. His work, "Mummies of the Pharaohs - Modern Medical Investigations" (St. Martins Press, 1990), won a History Prize from the Académie Française and another prize from the French National Academy of Medicine.

After a study which lasted ten years, Dr. Maurice Bucaille addressed the French Academy of Medicine in 1976 concerning the existence in the Qur'an of certain statements concerning physiology and reproduction. His reason for doing that was that :



"...our knowledge of these disciplines is such, that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Qur'an could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times."




HERE IS THE SITE WITH THE TESTAMONIES OF OTHER SCIENTISTS IN THE FIELD ON THIS SAME MATTER

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

[crawfish]

Logic brought in a good, albeit unexpected haul with that bait. :)

[Michele]

Tabari I:236 “‘When the sun rises upon its chariot from one of those springs it is accompanied by 360 angels with outspread wings…. When Allah wishes to test the sun and the moon, showing His servants a sign and thereby getting them to obey, the sun tumbles from the chariot and falls into the deep end of that ocean. When Allah wants to increase the significance of the sign and frighten His servants severely, all of the sun falls and nothing of it remains in the chariot. That is a total eclipse of the sun. It is a misfortune for the sun.’”

Bukhari:V4B54N421 “I walked hand in hand with the Prophet when the sun was about to set. We did not stop looking at it. The Prophet asked, ‘Do you know where the sun goes at sunset?’ I replied, ‘Allah and His Apostle know better.’ He said, ‘It travels until it falls down and prostrates Itself underneath the Throne. The angels who are in charge of the sun prostrate themselves, also. The sun asks permission to rise again. It is permitted. Then it will prostrate itself again but this prostration will not be accepted. The sun then says, “My Lord, where do You command me to rise, from where I set or from where I rose?” Allah will order the sun to return whence it has come and so the sun will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the statement of Allah in the Qur’an.’”


More on Islam & Science (again I highlight verses in red)

Quraanic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun.

Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:


It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty). [Al-Quraan 10:5]

See ye not How Allah has created The seven heavens One above another, And made the moon A light in their midst, and made the sun As a (Glorious) Lamp? [Al-Quraan 71:15-16]

THE SUN ROTATES

For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it.

In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the Astronomia Nova. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system including the sequence of night and day.

After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from Geography books during my school days. Consider the following Quraanic verse:


It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course. [Al-Quraan 21:33]

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahn. The word yasbahn is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming.

Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space. Most of the school textbooks have incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of an equipment that projects the image of the sun on the table top so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate around its axis.

In fact, the sun travels through space at roughly 150 miles per second, and takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy.

It is not permitted To the Sun to catch up The Moon, nor can The Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along In (its own) orbit (According to Law). [Al-Quraan 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The fixed place towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.

The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29 days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Quraanic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: What was the source of knowledge contained in the Quraan?

more....

http://www.it-is-truth.org/ModernScience.shtml

As you will see this page holds passages on all the various fields of science. to find the above passage you have to click astronomy at the top of the above link.

[ukangel]

"...our knowledge of these disciplines is such, that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Qur'an could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times."




HERE IS THE SITE WITH THE TESTAMONIES OF OTHER SCIENTISTS IN THE FIELD ON THIS SAME MATTER

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html


Michelle, I would strongly advise you not to go here. This fiction that the Quaran had scientific knowledge ahead of its time has been throughly debunked.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm

[Michele]

Lol, funny. I have that site too. I just began looking at it as well, however I hadn't gotten to this debunking part you put here... you know I am certainly not purporting much of anything. All I knew at the start of this anti-Islam rampage was that it could not be true the religion was evil in the way Logic seemed hellbent upon convincing me. It is very clear that Islam has been the brunt of much smearing and therefore would explain the attempt to have it appear ahead of its time, however I will proceed with caution.

But I must ask where was you strong advisory when Logic openned his first thread and filled it with all his garbage at the omission of any links or discourse? Funny you would jump in now with what appears to be such a belated advisory, all things considered.

[ukangel]

Please dont misunderstand my advisory to you, it was so you didnt go down the wrong path intellectually. My post was merely meant from one poster to another which I think can be seen in context. These arguments about the scientifc nature of the Koran can be very seductive when they are seen in isolation. I clearly remember being very impressed with them myself a while back.

As you know Logis membership was discontinued so I think you can infer from that WS attitude to his posting style.

[Michele]

Please dont misunderstand my advisory to you, it was so you didnt go down the wrong path intellectually. My post was merely meant from one poster to another which I think can be seen in context. These arguments about the scientifc nature of the Koran can be very seductive when they are seen in isolation. I clearly remember being very impressed with them myself a while back.

As you know Logis membership was discontinued so I think you can infer from that WS attitude to his posting style.

ukangel,

I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I understand it is important to know at the very least which sites are credible and which are not, and also to understand the diversity of discourse between those of Muslim faith on these topics concerning their faith as well, and I will most certainly read through the link you provided. I don't know if you are aware just how upsetting I found Logic85's introduction to what is an important topic, however I am adamant about discourse on Islam including the discourse of those that actually practice it as well.

You may like to view this thread I also openned.

http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

I am not sure on what points these scientific issues are debunked. I still have to view through that, however why in the world would these other scholars within these particular fields go out on a limb like this if there was not something within the Qur'aan that inspired them to make the claims they did? Were the scientists testamonies coerced out of context or something?

For instance, Dr. Maurice Bucaille's book: The Bible, The Qur'an and Science" (1976). His classical studies of the scriptural languages, including Arabic, in association with his knowledge of hieroglyphics, have allowed him to hold a multidisciplinary inquiry, in which his personal contribution as a medical doctor has produced conclusive arguments.

here is his book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0935782494/104-0214203-3839151?v=glance

please note the reviews.

Now on the site you provided is what is said to be a debunking or a rebuttal to what you have called a fiction regarding the Qur'aan and its foreknowledge of Modern Science:

Here is that rebuttal:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Campbell/index.html

Of course I haven't any idea which is definitive, all I can see is that there is debate on the matter, and perhaps neither are definitive, but it is too early for me to say much of anything. I can only say that, perhaps, both have something of interest to offer, albeit my firm understanding of the agenda of either site. Also, considering my awareness of the christain effort to proclaim itself as the true word and the OBVIOUS smears which are evident upon the Qur'aan, I must be wary of jumping to any conclusions. I am now also aware that Muslims of faith have question with regard to the corruption of the bible as well. That question is also evident within the discourse of the gnostics. My point is, and not to discredit it, that this site answering Islam appears to be a christain site. I mention that just point out that this needs to be considered as I view the information it is disseminating.

In coming to the Qur'aan purely from an academic standpoint, it seems to me one should be most aware, not of what christian theologians have to say only, but what do Muslim theologians say about their own religion. Obviously the three monotheistic religions are engaged within their own little war as to who is the truest of them all. We have Talmudic verse that tells us Jesus is a sexual pervert. We have those of Judeo-Christian faith that tell us Mohammed is a pedaphil and a rapist. We have some christain identity groups telling us the Chosen people were really the West Africans. And they do so oddly by quoting deuteronomy.

All of the theologians must be viewed with discretionary caution is my point. There are smears evident from all sides.

FYI, I haven't yet read the rebuttal to Dr. Maurice Bucaille's book, nor have I read his book for that matter. I just happened to notice from the christian site you offered what is said to be a definitive rebuttal is in evidence. Whether it is definitive I can not yet conclude for myself. I also happened to notice that within this same site (answering islam), in its discourse on Islam and terrorism they seem to push forth a suggestion to Muslims that, not only should they be critical of their own religion and their book, but that once they were they would see that the books within the bible are most true. So that indicates to me the answering-Islam site also has its agenda.

anyway I will be back after I have read through this debunking you place as well as Campbells' debunking of Baucaille's book. I can not image even then I will have come to any conclusions. I am too new to this topic.

[el nopal]

(I am too new to this topic.) - stated by Michele in June.

I once possessed a Quran in English and Arabic, a two volume set.
I gave it away. It was a nice set.

I never saw any of those quotes in it, that's "for sure."

[twinkiegirl]

Not trying to "debunk" the science of the Qu'ran, but the descriptions found of celestial movements and embryonic development were described before Mohammed's time in Greek and Indian academia.
Mohammed may have been illiterate, but he was not a stupid man. He had an appetite for learning, religious studies and otherwise.

[el nopal]

Not trying to "debunk" the science of the Qu'ran, but the descriptions found of celestial movements and embryonic development were described before Mohammed's time in Greek and Indian academia.
Mohammed may have been illiterate, but he was not a stupid man. He had an appetite for learning, religious studies and otherwise.

Yes, Mohammed came after everyone else.
Other religions have some mathematics mixed in with the belief system, for example Buddhism.
Some religions even mix art, mathematics, cosmology (similar to astronomy), and architecture to create everything from temples to systems of belief. These systems of belief changed over time, evolving to become what we today know them to be.