how silly does this sound?

[twoone]

What are the chances that there actually was a being that created the universe and earth and maybe even humans, but we humans killed that being or that being became extinct and so in fact there is now no "greater being"?

[MikeD4o7]

I'd say that's just as plausible as any other theological assumption... and just as lacking in evidence.

[eugene40]

I would say that it is about plausible as most ideas of organized religion that believes in a higher power.

[MuffnMan]

I don't think its the least bit plausible, probable or even possible. I'm sure that if a being that could create the very idea of life and (or) the human mind alone would have to be above the concept of death. Also above the concept of life, time and even matter alltogether. A thing (if you will) that could generate, from nothing, anything alone would have to be bigger than our tiny little minds could ever comprehend. It sounds pretty silly.

[twoone]

This relates to another concept that I find amazing. The idea that something that can travel through space or time has to be a superior being, why?

I agree with what others are saying in that it is not very likely but just as plausible.

[ranger]

This relates to another concept that I find amazing. The idea that something that can travel through space or time has to be a superior being, why?

God created space time and matter. He does not travel through space and time. He controls it!

[twoone]

I tend to look into things deeper then just "god created it and controls it". :sorry:

[crawfish]

Well, if there was a higher power that we were capable of destroying in the past, then I'd expect to find evidence of that power's physical existence (since I doubt we'd have been capable of destroying a purely spiritual being).

[twoone]

why does this thing have to be a higher power? It is amazing that whenever we can not do something and something else can, we assume they are a greater power.

[Peacemann]

What are the chances that there actually was a being that created the universe and earth and maybe even humans, but we humans killed that being or that being became extinct and so in fact there is now no "greater being"?


well that is just the point, everyone can " what if " until the cows come home, but NO ONE will ever find out 100% the answers to all of life's questions.

We can't go back in the past to the day things were made, and see what happened. But there is only one explanation for things that people feel comfortable with.

That is religion. Religion is a way for a higher being to answer all of the problems one may have, and it is stictly for one to believe in.
were never going to find out, "where we go after we die." or " how did we get here " without believing in something first. That is where religion makes a big role, it brings comfort, and a solution to all of those problems which make you feel scared.

I have no clue how we got here, but my opinions of philosiphy (sorry, sp) might seem different to people of other religions and backgrounds., but isn't it what i believe in. Isn't it what some people believe in.

I think that this will never be solved, since you cant look at it only one way.
:beer:

[cpwill]

I tend to look into things deeper then just "god created it and controls it". :sorry:

:lol: and how, exactly, do you go deeper?

[MikeD4o7]

and how, exactly, do you go deeper?

By actually explaining how it really works.

e.g.

"Why does the earth go around the sun"

shallow answer: God makes it do that

deeper answer: Because any two bodies with mass are attracted to each other, and the earth travels in a set orbit around the sun because of that attraction (preferably you'd give equations and whatnot too)

[twoone]

Thank you Mike, surprising answer CPWILL from someone who has consistently stated some very intelligent posts. The idea that I put forth is just as proven as any religion, hey maybe I will start a new religion :rolleyes:

[twoone]

Sorry for that response CPwill, after rereading it I realised maybe you were trying to figure out my thought process.

I grew up in a home that religion was not present in and the last couple of years I have been researching different religions but keep coming up with the same problem, there is no proof. I have no problem in people believing and see the tremendous benefits that some get out of it, but I do have a problem with people following a idea so blindly that they do not even recognize the faults involved.

[cpwill]

By actually explaining how it really works.

e.g.

"Why does the earth go around the sun"

shallow answer: God makes it do that

deeper answer: Because any two bodies with mass are attracted to each other, and the earth travels in a set orbit around the sun because of that attraction (preferably you'd give equations and whatnot too)

deeper answer still; because God set up the universe with physical rules; now, how did he set up gravity, and how does it work?

[cpwill]

Sorry for that response CPwill, after rereading it I realised maybe you were trying to figure out my thought process.

:thumbsup: no prob.

I grew up in a home that religion was not present in and the last couple of years I have been researching different religions but keep coming up with the same problem, there is no proof.

the problem not being that there is no proof, the problem being that you will not accept the evidence we present. my proof? my proof is that i have met God, spoken with Him, recieved specific information i had no way of knowing, etc., however, i somehow doubt you are willing to accept my personal testimony as evidence, i've never been able to pin any agnostic/athiest down in debate as to whether or not they think i am simply lying or hallucinagenic.

I have no problem in people believing and see the tremendous benefits that some get out of it, but I do have a problem with people following a idea so blindly that they do not even recognize the faults involved.

who says we are following anything blindly? who says we do not recognize faults? in fact; that's one of our trademarks; the claim that all people have faults, all people sin.

[twoone]

the problem not being that there is no proof, the problem being that you will not accept the evidence we present. my proof? my proof is that i have met God, spoken with Him, recieved specific information i had no way of knowing, etc., however, i somehow doubt you are willing to accept my personal testimony as evidence, i've never been able to pin any agnostic/athiest down in debate as to whether or not they think i am simply lying or hallucinagenic.

Unfortunately I can not take your word for it. I have no doubt that you are not lying, as the passion you speak with could not come from a lye. Maybe I am wrong and there is some almighty out there but until I receive the experiences you are talking about or some concrete evidence, I have a hard time believing. BTW what does it look like?

who says we are following anything blindly? who says we do not recognize faults? in fact; that's one of our trademarks; the claim that all people have faults, all people sin.

By accepting a god without any concrete scientific proof. What happens to someone who admits their sins? Why isn't god who supposedly loves all, equal to all? Why is there even a hell? If I can get some real answers to just some of my questions then maybe it will be a little easier for me to believe.

[cpwill]

Unfortunately I can not take your word for it. I have no doubt that you are not lying, as the passion you speak with could not come from a lye.

so then you think that i and millions of other people around the world are all hallucinagenic? or what?

Maybe I am wrong and there is some almighty out there but until I receive the experiences you are talking about or some concrete evidence, I have a hard time believing. BTW what does it look like?

what does what look like? what does God look like?

By accepting a god without any concrete scientific proof.

do you believe that you have a best friend? why, you have no scientific proof, only you'r personal experience. i have alot more evidence (proof, if you will) that God exists than i do that you exist.

What happens to someone who admits their sins?

they are being honest.

Why isn't god who supposedly loves all, equal to all?

how could the creator of the universe be equall to his creations? is a parent the equal of a five year old child? am i the equal of my dog? yet, i love my dog, and a parent loves their child.

Why is there even a hell?

because we choose to reject Him.

If I can get some real answers to just some of my questions then maybe it will be a little easier for me to believe.

if you are willing to wipe your mind of all previous prejudices and accept what is presented to you, perhaps it will. but this is very hard for people to do. :(

[MikeD4o7]

so then you think that i and millions of other people around the world are all hallucinagenic? or what?


If you really want the answer, I think you and the many other people that believe have willingly deluded yourselves. Just as the people who claim to see ghosts, talk to the dead with ouiji boards, say they were abducted by aliens. Just because people have been indoctrinated on such a wide scale that many share the same delusions (with the same obvious sources), doesn't mean that it's real or true.

if you are willing to wipe your mind of all previous prejudices and accept what is presented to you, perhaps it will. but this is very hard for people to do.


Agreed. :(

[twoone]

what does what look like? what does God look like?

yes

so then you think that i and millions of other people around the world are all hallucinagenic? or what?

that is what I am trying to figure out

do you believe that you have a best friend? why, you have no scientific proof, only you'r personal experience. i have alot more evidence (proof, if you will) that God exists than i do that you exist.

The difference is that mine is in the flesh. Funny that you choose to question whether I exist.

because we choose to reject Him.

That sounds more like a dictator then a all forgiving god.

if you are willing to wipe your mind of all previous prejudices and accept what is presented to you, perhaps it will. but this is very hard for people to do.

I choose to be a leader and not a follower, maybe that is my problem :o

[rex_b]

What are the chances that there actually was a being that created the universe and earth and maybe even humans, but we humans killed that being or that being became extinct and so in fact there is now no "greater being"?

Well since "God" is known as all powerful and omnipotent then this could never happen.

God would have to be mortal.. hehe

[cpwill]

yes

it's a rather impossible question, isn't it? describe the indescribable?

that is what I am trying to figure out

let me know when you decide, but seriously, think about it; these all report having met somebody; either they are all lying or they are hallucinating.

The difference is that mine is in the flesh.

prove it.

Funny that you choose to question whether I exist.

i don't question your existance, the majority of evidence i have says that you do. however, i have more evidence of God's existance than yours.

That sounds more like a dictator then a all forgiving god.

no, a dictator would not let you reject him, not let you spit in his face. a Loving God gives you the freedom to choose to either accept or reject Him.

I choose to be a leader and not a follower, maybe that is my problem :o

how does that tie into anything? it's a mental exercise; has nothing to do with leading or following; you're the only individual involved.

[MikeD4o7]

let me know when you decide, but seriously, think about it; these all report having met somebody; either they are all lying or they are hallucinating.

Then by this logic, ouiji boards must also hold the power to talk to the dead since so many people believe it... and alien abductions must be real, etc etc. They're not lying or hallucinating, they're deluding themselves into truly believing something that they really want to. It happens all of the time.

[twoone]

prove it.
I am leaning towards you hallucianting with that answer, are you having troubles determining what is flesh and blood (scientifically proven to exist) and a spiritual being (no proof).
i don't question your existance, the majority of evidence i have says that you do. however, i have more evidence of God's existance than yours.
I think you are a little confused on the meaning of evidence.
no, a dictator would not let you reject him, not let you spit in his face. a Loving God gives you the freedom to choose to either accept or reject Him.
If I reject him I go to hell, if I spit in his face I go to hell. I do not see the difference.
how does that tie into anything? it's a mental exercise; has nothing to do with leading or following; you're the only individual involved.
By following the bible and what was taught and not questioning it.

[Mr. Opus]

What are the chances that there actually was a being that created the universe and earth and maybe even humans, but we humans killed that being or that being became extinct and so in fact there is now no "greater being"?
Aliens might have cloned themselves tossed them on a world and died? As possible as any other religion but would be considered a cult and you wouldn't get tax breaks.

[cpwill]

I am leaning towards you hallucianting with that answer, are you having troubles determining what is flesh and blood (scientifically proven to exist) and a spiritual being (no proof).

no, prove to me you have a best friend.

I think you are a little confused on the meaning of evidence.

well let's analyze, what evidence do i have that you exist?

If I reject him I go to hell, if I spit in his face I go to hell. I do not see the difference.

no, you insult and spit in the face of God every time you sin; you only go to Hell if you choose to do so, if you choose to reject God.

By following the bible and what was taught and not questioning it.

i didn't ask you to become a fundamentalist, i asked you to be willing to perform a mental exercise.

[Intrepid]

no, prove to me you have a best friend.



well let's analyze, what evidence do i have that you exist?



no, you insult and spit in the face of God every time you sin; you only go to Hell if you choose to do so, if you choose to reject God.



i didn't ask you to become a fundamentalist, i asked you to be willing to perform a mental exercise.


The irony of it all CP, is that you quote HDT in your signature.

[twoone]

well let's analyze, what evidence do i have that you exist?
please forward to me any emails or postings that god has sent to you! If you really want me to introduce my best friend to you it is just a short drive north, you bring god and I will bring my friend! That argument holds no weight at all, you are just trying to sidetrack the fact that there is no evidence of god's existence.

[Relient Halo]

What are the chances that there actually was a being that created the universe and earth and maybe even humans, but we humans killed that being or that being became extinct and so in fact there is now no "greater being"?

Thank you Malcolm (from Jurassic Park). Now all you have to do is throw in something about dinosaurs and it'll all be complete. But anyway...

If God is God, and we are nothing but specks of cosmic dust hurtling through the infinite stretch of time, then it is only laughable to think that we could kill God. And since God is infinite as time, then such a thing could not go extinct. Have we become so arrogant in our position that we believe that we have the power to kill a "greater being"? And if we could do such a thing, then wouldn't that mean that we were the "greater being" from the get go and that God was never God in the first place?

[cpwill]

please forward to me any emails or postings that god has sent to you!

lol, God doesn't bother with such artificial means; He speaks a bit more directly; although He has had others send me emails before. pm's and emails are incredibly fakable; a voice that you alone are hearing is a bit more tricky; particularly when this voice turns out to be prescient.

If you really want me to introduce my best friend to you it is just a short drive north, you bring god and I will bring my friend!

that doesn't prove anything; you could simply pay someone for a day to say they are your friend.

That argument holds no weight at all, you are just trying to sidetrack the fact that there is no evidence of god's existence.

by pointing out that, by the standards you demand for "proof", you also cannot "prove" that you have a friend.

however, you do have one, don't you?;)

[cpwill]

The irony of it all CP, is that you quote HDT in your signature.

:D i liked the quote.

[twoone]

Thank you Malcolm (from Jurassic Park). Now all you have to do is throw in something about dinosaurs and it'll all be complete. But anyway...
I am not sure what this is but now I am going to have to pay the $4.00 cdn and find out....thanks a lot :mad: :D

Have we become so arrogant in our position that we believe that we have the power to kill a "greater being"?
Why is it that it has to be a greater being? If I make something that you can not does that make me greater then you?


however, you do have one, don't you?
would you believe me if I say yes?

[Relient Halo]

I am not sure what this is but now I am going to have to pay the $4.00 cdn and find out....thanks a lot :mad: :D

"God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs, God creates man, man destroys God, man creates dinosaurs, dinosaurs eat man..." and so on and so forth. It's from Jurassic Park. That's where it came from, so just send the four bucks to me. :D


Why is it that it has to be a greater being? If I make something that you can not does that make me greater then you?
But if you create me, than are you not greater than I? We are not Gods equals, just a creation of His design.