ARE JOHOVA'S WITNESSES CHRISTIANS?

[DRMIZER]

and why or why not.

[nilz263]

Jehovah's Witnesses are christians. I should know i'm one of them. I don't know why people keep thinking we're not. Most people think we're some kind of cult. But basically the truth is anybody who believes in christ can be called a christian. For example a muslim that believes in christ can call themselves "Christian."

[Simon666]

They think they are and take the Bible literally. Whether that makes them good christians is another thing, this whole blood transfusion thingy for example has costed many lives. :mad: In reality, they are a brainwashed sect.

[Vic]

at least jehovas witness are not violent.

but yes, they are brainwashed and i have seen some flyers of them where they see themselves as "better" people than the rest.

[Chiasmus]

You both judge too harshly. Saying all Jehovah's Witnesses are brainwashed and conceited is like saying all men are named Jim.

We call it prejudice.

[Vic]

Originally posted by Chiasmus
You both judge too harshly. Saying all Jehovah's Witnesses are brainwashed and conceited is like saying all men are named Jim.

We call it prejudice.

with all due respect i must say, this comparison of yours sucks.

[Chiasmus]

But the point was made.

[Fitzother]

The phrase "believe in Christ" is ambiguous. A better definition of a Christian would be , "one who believes in Jesus Christ's divinity." Which I don't think would apply to Muslims. As far as I know, Jehovah Witnesses do not put Jesus as sharing in God's divinity, but if one considers himself a Christian, then cogito ergo sum.

[DRMIZER]

I am not of the Jehova's Witness faith. However, I understand that there is a hugh difference in what they believe and what the bible teaches. Here are some examples. Feel free to correct them if they are wrong.

1. Jehovah God is not a Trinity
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
3. Jesus Christ is a created being, who at one time did not exist (a.k.a.Michael the archangel)
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
5. Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no eternal torment (Hell is just the grave)
9. There is no life after death (except for the 144,000)
10. Salvation is by good works not by Grace
11. You cannot be sure of salvation
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
14. The second coming occurred in 1914 (only known to Jehovah's Witnesses)
15. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918
16. All pastors are the "Antichrist"
17. All churches are of Satan
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
20. You cannot support your country

[davidcasey2]

They are told that their spiritual security and acceptance with God is premised on their submitting to the spiritual authority exercised through the Watchtower Society, by those who call themselves the remnant of the 144,000. Christianity, on the other hand, is NOT dependant upon any particular church group, for Christians believe that salvation is attained only through Christ, and not through any religious organization.

[bama47]

Too legalistic to me. No birthdays, Christmas, Easter or whatever and they are hung up on the 144,000. Only they are going to Heaven from what I know.

[nilz263]

there are fanatics in this religion just like every other religion. but what many people think of us is warped. we are not a group of brainwashed idiots. We just truly believe in what we see in the bible. the blood issue is something we are willing to die over because we believe in it. but many people don't die anymore because of current blood alternatives. and the 144,000 thing you were right except for a couple of things. only 144,000 can go to heaven. the rest when they die will just sleep until the great tribulation when evil will be destroyed and all the righteous dead will be resurrected to live on a paradise earth. i know this sounds far fetched and it's hard for some people to believe it, but we do. we don't think we're better than everyone else because of what we believe in. it's just what we believe in, nothing more.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by nilz263
there are fanatics in this religion just like every other religion. but what many people think of us is warped. we are not a group of brainwashed idiots. We just truly believe in what we see in the bible. the blood issue is something we are willing to die over because we believe in it. but many people don't die anymore because of current blood alternatives. and the 144,000 thing you were right except for a couple of things. only 144,000 can go to heaven. the rest when they die will just sleep until the great tribulation when evil will be destroyed and all the righteous dead will be resurrected to live on a paradise earth. i know this sounds far fetched and it's hard for some people to believe it, but we do. we don't think we're better than everyone else because of what we believe in. it's just what we believe in, nothing more.
Are you aware there is a multifold of 144.000 jehova's witnesses and therefore the chances you get to go to heaven are minute? If I remember correctly they have also made several prediction about the end of the world until some time ago they stopped doing it because it never came true and they looked like the idiots they are. :D

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by nilz263
there are fanatics in this religion just like every other religion. but what many people think of us is warped. we are not a group of brainwashed idiots. We just truly believe in what we see in the bible. the blood issue is something we are willing to die over because we believe in it. but many people don't die anymore because of current blood alternatives. and the 144,000 thing you were right except for a couple of things. only 144,000 can go to heaven. the rest when they die will just sleep until the great tribulation when evil will be destroyed and all the righteous dead will be resurrected to live on a paradise earth. i know this sounds far fetched and it's hard for some people to believe it, but we do. we don't think we're better than everyone else because of what we believe in. it's just what we believe in, nothing more.
I'm not quoting fanaticisim in the JW. I am stating their beliefs which don't appear to have any basis for being Christian.

And you stated this thing about the 144,000 as if it were biblical fact. (sorry oxymoron).

You didn't answer many of the 20 items listed above so they must be true to you but not biblical. Here's 20 more. Your opinion please.

21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
23. You cannot buy Girl Scout cookies
24. You must attend five meetings per week
25. You must go from door to door weekly to gain converts
25. You are discouraged from attending college
26. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness
27. If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower they will be shunned
28. You cannot join any clubs or sports teams
29. You cannot be a cheerleader
30. You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot vote in any political campaign
33. You cannot hold public office
34. You cannot serve on a jury
35. You are discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes)
36. You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
37. You cannot accept Christmas gifts
38. You must read and study Watchtower literature regularly
39. Only Jehovah's Witnesses can understand the Bible
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization

Thanks.

[nilz263]

We cannot salute the flag. We stand for the national anthem as a sign of respect.
We can't join the military.
We don't have to go to meetings five times a week.
We can buy girl scout cookies.
We can attend college.
We can marry non-jehovah's witnesses(looked down upon though).
We can join clubs and sports.
We can be cheerleaders.
We cannot vote or hold office.
We can give to different charities.
We don't have to study the bible and watchtower regularly.
Everyone can understand the bible.
ANgels don't direct the watchtower, the annointed ones do(the ones going to heaven)

Everything you said was true of many witnesses. But many of these you won't get in trouble for doing. You probably knew a witness that couldn't do these things didn't you.
Many of the things you said are more like parental guidelines. They're more like the religious rules a parent sets for a child. You were right about not celebrating any holiday though.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by nilz263
We cannot salute the flag. We stand for the national anthem as a sign of respect.
We can't join the military.
We don't have to go to meetings five times a week.
We can buy girl scout cookies.
We can attend college.
We can marry non-jehovah's witnesses(looked down upon though).
We can join clubs and sports.
We can be cheerleaders.
We cannot vote or hold office.
We can give to different charities.
We don't have to study the bible and watchtower regularly.
Everyone can understand the bible.
ANgels don't direct the watchtower, the annointed ones do(the ones going to heaven)

Everything you said was true of many witnesses. But many of these you won't get in trouble for doing. You probably knew a witness that couldn't do these things didn't you.
Many of the things you said are more like parental guidelines. They're more like the religious rules a parent sets for a child. You were right about not celebrating any holiday though.

Actually I do know several JW's. Like other people they appear to be fine people. However, all of the postings I have offerred so far come from your religious writings which make JW religion UnChristian.

[Stormyone]

I am familiar with the JWs.

They are nothing more, or less than a cult.

:angel:

[Simon666]

Whenever there is an article about them there are always shocking letters from people who quit that tell how they have had to break with family and relatives who were not in JW, and after the breakup of mothers being taught their daughters have fallen for Satan. Not to mention the children being endoctrinated from childhood, effectively ruining their childhood by destroying social relationships at school. Not to mention the poverty enforced to people by telling them to give up their money and/or job because they are taught this is needed to please God or for some other purpose. They are a vicious sect.

[nilz263]

drimzer did you mean by my writings that we are not christian, or by the church writings as a whole?

[nilz263]

drmizer my bad

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by nilz263
drimzer did you mean by my writings that we are not christian, or by the church writings as a whole?

The JW faith is NOT a Christian faith because of their beliefs in the last 40 items I marked.

[nilz263]

If that's your opinion, then all right. But we are. You don't have to celebrate christmas to be a christian which i explained before.

[POWERSTROKE]

Originally posted by Simon666
Whenever there is an article about them there are always shocking letters from people who quit that tell how they have had to break with family and relatives who were not in JW, and after the breakup of mothers being taught their daughters have fallen for Satan. Not to mention the children being endoctrinated from childhood, effectively ruining their childhood by destroying social relationships at school. Not to mention the poverty enforced to people by telling them to give up their money and/or job because they are taught this is needed to please God or for some other purpose. They are a vicious sect.
This is true. It is a weird religion if I may say so. My wifes aunt and uncle are Jehovahs. It was weird, my wifes aunt died (another aunt) and those two creeps didn't come into the church for the funeral, because they weren't allowed to. Joke. The sadder part is that her uncle was a Catholic until he met up with his wife. :(

[DRMIZER]

Some "un"Christian beliefs from the JW.

41. Jesus did not die on a cross but an upright pole
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
45. You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
46. You must refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister"
47. Only approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
50. You must forgo vacations to attend annual conventions
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car
52. Men must wear short hair
53. Men cannot wear beards
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
55. You cannot have a tattoo
56. You cannot use tobacco products
57. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings (they are never destroyed)
59. You must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away spirits)*
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material

[EvilTwinFelicia]

What if-- when we all die-- we find out whatever beliefs we did or didn't have were wrong?

I don't know a lot about JW's-- mainly because that whole bit about not celebrating birthdays did not appeal to my materialistic side--I mean, a girl needs a religion which allows here to receive jewels as gifts on birthdays! Seriously-- it was never a religion which appealed to me. What little I know about about the religion, it is not one I could see myself participating in.

With that being said, I view the JW's the same way I think about drugs-- Just because some people use them, enjoy them, enhance their lives with them-- does not mean they would be good for me. I prefer Catholicism.

I've seen many articles and books about how Catholics aren't Christian, as well.

[nilz263]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
Some "un"Christian beliefs from the JW.

41. Jesus did not die on a cross but an upright pole
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
45. You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
46. You must refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister"
47. Only approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
50. You must forgo vacations to attend annual conventions
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car
52. Men must wear short hair
53. Men cannot wear beards
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
55. You cannot have a tattoo
56. You cannot use tobacco products
57. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings (they are never destroyed)
59. You must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away spirits)*
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material

here's a little more info on your info.
41)he died on a stake
42)No we can't
43)yes we have to
45)we can have friends that are not witnesses
46)Only if they're baptized and over the age of 18
47)Any kind of sex is allowed between married couples.
48)The watchtower literature puts it into lamens terms basically. But you can understand it without it.
49)The elders then the police.(but it isn't required to report it to the elders.
50)It's up to the individual
51)we can buy any kind of car we want
52)Hair must be well groomed.
53)we can but again they need to be well trimmed.
54)Where the hell did you get this? They don't have to pray with a hat on.
55)No we cannot
56)NO we can't. We're taught to respect the body. but people have abused otc drugs too. so this isn't etched in stone.
57)yes
58)yes you have too. Files are only kept on people that are caught in the wrong.
59)we don't consider that's what they're for. we can have them. they're just used to decorate a house.
60)We can to learn other people's point of view on us.

i hope that was enlightening.

[jks0614]

1st let me say that I am not a JW.

I don't understand why so many of you find it necessary to trash this religion/cult. They are peaceful ppl. Many many years ago when I lived in the Bronx & around the corner from the Yankee Stadium, my father & brother were home alone (mom & I were away for the wkend). When we came home, my father & brother were all excited about how they had this really nice JW couple stay in the house (I think there was a big to-do re: JW's at the stadium).

You don't have to agree with their beliefs, but I find it quite deplorable that you find reason to debate & trash them in this forum.

BTW, Orthodox Judaism would shock the heck out of many of you, as it did me when I was 1st introduced to it. After much research, meeting them & sharing their holidays & traditions, I had a totally different outlook & respect for them. Whether I agree with their way of life or not, is irrelevant. But I do have a deep respect for them.



Originally posted by nilz263
Jehovah's Witnesses are christians. I should know i'm one of them. I don't know why people keep thinking we're not. Most people think we're some kind of cult. But basically the truth is anybody who believes in christ can be called a christian. For example a muslim that believes in christ can call themselves "Christian."