Woman arrested and detained for eating Payday candy bar

[Mirror Lake 444]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/07/29/candybar.arrest.ap/index.html

Sure glad they are cracking down on the terrorists! I don't even think the Gestapo did this. Wow that Patriot act must have some teeth! :rolleyes:

[Dallascaper]

From the story:

"The transit police officer asked for Willett's identification, but Willett kept walking. She said she was then frisked and handcuffed."

The problem is that the person decided to get smart-assed with the officer. If an officer asks for your identification, and you ignore them, then yes, you will get locked up.

[Stover]

Par'me if I make a correction. BTW, didja eat a Payday - recently? Tastes like tamales; I wonder why... The officer was absolutely correct in detaining this woman. Bad taste is at least an infraction, should be a misdemeanor...

[patrickt]

Patriot Act? I assumed it was the anti-fat brigade moving in for the kill.

[NetxMan]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/07/29/candybar.arrest.ap/index.html

Sure glad they are cracking down on the terrorists! I don't even think the Gestapo did this. Wow that Patriot act must have some teeth! :rolleyes:

Why do you libs sit here and put spin and lies on anything you can? This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act at all. These are just Metrorail cops that are bored. Plus she did refuse to do what the officer asked of her.

[serenity]

Why do you libs sit here and put spin and lies on anything you can? This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act at all. These are just Metrorail cops that are bored.

And if Metro cops are asking folks for ID because they're "bored" than they can go kiss off. This isn't (yet) a police state, despite the deep desires of commissars.


Plus she did refuse to do what the officer asked of her.


If she refused what was "asked" of her, there would be no issue. She refused what was ORDERED of her--because (according to you) the officers were "bored."

If being a liberal means you don't bow down in glee to authority on a whim, then i'm all for it.

[Bill Jackson]

This incident shows just how corrupt that the government has become--at every level.

[Djj1973]

I think its more of a case of two *******s butting heads. The ******* who won, happened to have a pair of handcuffs.

[NetxMan]

Guys, there is a ban on eating on the Railway there. She was asked to finish the candy bar or throw it away. Now whether you agree with the law or not, she was asked to follow it, she refused, and then refused again when the officer asked her for her ID. The officers did their job.

[Djj1973]

I guess you are right, But these guys are real pricks.

[NetxMan]

Yes they are, I agree. I am just saying she was at fault and the original poster tried to tie this into the Patriot Act when it has nothing at all to do with it.

[eugene40]

Ya know,,, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Patriot Act,,, see that would be wrong... This is a new law given to us Officers to help deal with *****holes. If you don't give the ID we can arrest and detain you until we figure out who the heck you are. But for this whole situation... it is kind of like I tell everyone.... You start out with a warning,,, what transpires hereforth depends on your attitude... You can leave with warning,,, or you can leave with a big of a ticket that I can add up with every infraction i read in the law book until I get bored and send you on your way with a 500 ticket. Moral of the story,,, be nice to cops and they will be nice to you,,,, act like a jerk and you get a new lesson on being a jerk.

[Larani]

Guys, there is a ban on eating on the Railway there. She was asked to finish the candy bar or throw it away. Now whether you agree with the law or not, she was asked to follow it, she refused, and then refused again when the officer asked her for her ID. The officers did their job.

I read the story and my understanding of it was she did finish it. It was in her mouth and stomach before she reached the bottom of the stairs. Now the cops following her even after she had thrown the wrapper away WHY? Then she ask's don't he got real criminals to detain? Some people see that as being a smart ***, me I see that as a legitimate question from a tax-payer who pays this cops salary.

So what does this women get for a legitimate question by a civil servant who seems intent on harrassing her after she did comply. Arrested and it seems most posters support the transit cop. Go figure.

[Larani]

Ya know,,, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Patriot Act,,, see that would be wrong... This is a new law given to us Officers to help deal with *****holes. If you don't give the ID we can arrest and detain you until we figure out who the heck you are. But for this whole situation... it is kind of like I tell everyone.... You start out with a warning,,, what transpires hereforth depends on your attitude... You can leave with warning,,, or you can leave with a big of a ticket that I can add up with every infraction i read in the law book until I get bored and send you on your way with a 500 ticket. Moral of the story,,, be nice to cops and they will be nice to you,,,, act like a jerk and you get a new lesson on being a jerk.

Eugene I think your a honest and decent cop, but you cannot deny that these laws can and will be abused and it is up to the populace and cops like you to make sure cops don't let these laws go to their heads. Just because you can doesn't mean you ought too.

[patrickt]

Eugene40: Let me make sure I understand this. Be nice to cops or they will seriously screw you over? What a lovely philosophy.

[Stover]

Eugene I think your a honest and decent cop, but you cannot deny that these laws can and will be abused and it is up to the populace and cops like you to make sure cops don't let these laws go to their heads. Just because you can doesn't mean you ought too.

That' s a roger... I never spent any time in blue, but I have been in law enforcement. It's a question of your basic judgment, Eugenio. Why bother to write up all that crap? Just scare the s--t out of this horrible miscreant, and have done! Also, Larani, cops can do just about anything they damned well please, notwithstanding any Patriot Acts, or Miranda Warnings, and all that specious crap. Used to be even worse. Take you down to the po-lice station and rearrange your features...

[Larani]

That' s a roger... I never spent any time in blue, but I have been in law enforcement. It's a question of your basic judgment, Eugenio. Why bother to write up all that crap? Just scare the s--t out of this horrible miscreant, and have done! Also, Larani, cops can do just about anything they damned well please, notwithstanding any Patriot Acts, or Miranda Warnings, and all that specious crap. Used to be even worse. Take you down to the po-lice station and rearrange your features...


Well not to get personal I been warned not to give private info on myself as there are people of well shall we say less then ideal character, but I have had my own personal dealings and YES absolutely I know what they can and cannot do and what they can and do get away with.

I in no way imply that all cops are bad only that there is truth in the statement that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Cops are civil servants and I believe anyone has a right to ask cops legitimate questions if they percieve cops as stepping over the line. I also think it would be wrong to try and denounce or silence people who atte/mpt to do just that.

I think this ladies question to this officer was a legitimate question. What was this officer doing with his time. Looking for terrorist leaving questionable packages. Stopping a purse snatcher. No he was following her around after she complied and stuff the candy bar in her mouth, even he admits that she did this so why was he following her? And what was his reason for asking for her ID.

[eugene40]

Eugene I think your a honest and decent cop, but you cannot deny that these laws can and will be abused and it is up to the populace and cops like you to make sure cops don't let these laws go to their heads. Just because you can doesn't mean you ought too.

There is a bunch of BS laws on the books that don't get enforced everyday,,, because they are stupid,, it isn't that we can't enforce them,,, it is just they are so freaking stupid that they aren't worth doing anything about.... like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign,, full two seconds,,,, using your turn signal 100feet before your turn,,,, stuff like that.... But it isn't abuse if the cop is just making a point,, I think that is what the cop was doing... She was being disrespectful like a good number of people that they deal with, and we take it,, and take it and take it and take it and take it... The courts don't side with us for hardly anything,, I know courts that toss out assaults on officers unless the cop is seriously injured.. Sometimes we get fed up with it and sometimes that next guy that is a jerk gets the full letter of the law,, and all in CAPS. It isn't perfect but I think it is better then an officer beating the crap out of someone,, don't you?

[eugene40]

Eugene40: Let me make sure I understand this. Be nice to cops or they will seriously screw you over? What a lovely philosophy.


Ya know,,, a ticket for delaying an officer,,,, (and it could have been obstruction and interfereing of an officer in his duties) is that big of a screw over,,, She can fight it in court and will probably win because it is a stupid freaking law. But the point of it is... Cops are people too,,, they take a lot of crap for no reason other then doing their job.. They are spit on. They are kicked. They work hard and see there efforts thwarted by a slick talking lawyer or just ineptitude on the part of the prosecutor. It is not about being nice,,, it is just about respect. He asked her to stop eating,, she was a jerk,, he asked for her ID... which he can from Terry V Ohio, and the new SC ruling,,, she was a further jerk so she got arrested,, all within the confines of the law.. He did nothing wrong but do his job to the letter. We let a lot of crap go, but we are human,, each and every one of us.. Sometimes we have our fill and we do take it out on people that sometimes don't deserve it (and I mean this all in legal ways,,, no beatings) We do use these laws and other little laws that are seldom used to get back at some of these people... sure it is petty,, but sometimes it is our only defense. And as for getting screwed,,, I am sure her little ticket,, or a 500 dollar fine is small in comparrison of the stuff that we let go on a daily basis... We are not monsters,, we are not all jerks (though a good deal think so) we are just people trying to do a job. Most of police deal with people in a respectable manner,, we just ask for the same treament. And when it isn't we go for the letter of the law. And frankly if you don't like it,, if you don't like us,,,, I have no problem with it, and even though some people are jerks, and hate police. We will still come to their aid when they need us.

[Larani]

There is a bunch of BS laws on the books that don't get enforced everyday,,, because they are stupid,, it isn't that we can't enforce them,,, it is just they are so freaking stupid that they aren't worth doing anything about.... like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign,, full two seconds,,,, using your turn signal 100feet before your turn,,,, stuff like that.... But it isn't abuse if the cop is just making a point,, I think that is what the cop was doing... She was being disrespectful like a good number of people that they deal with, and we take it,, and take it and take it and take it and take it... The courts don't side with us for hardly anything,, I know courts that toss out assaults on officers unless the cop is seriously injured.. Sometimes we get fed up with it and sometimes that next guy that is a jerk gets the full letter of the law,, and all in CAPS. It isn't perfect but I think it is better then an officer beating the crap out of someone,, don't you?

No I don't there is no excuse. Any officer beating the crap out of someone is not an officer in my opinion but a crimminal in a uniform pretending to be a cop, and I think that law enforcement does get its far share of athoritarian and abusive personalities who thrive on control, and only one they really lose it do they get caught otherwise I think they get protected and excused.

You say you think this lady was being a Jerk, as a police officer what empirical evidence do you have to support such a predisposition are all people guilty of being Jerks until proven innocent in your eyes? I think her question was very appropriate to the officer she and yes I think was acting very inapropriate. Why was he follow her? It could not be because she was eating according to him she had already followed his order nodded to him and and eaten the candy bar and YES even disposed of the wrapper in the appropriate container. So again why was he following her. I think her question at this time was completely appropriate didn't he have other things to do? like subway security? If he was so busy and interested in her would he have notice a terrorist leaving a suspicious bag. Personally I think this officer did deserve this question from his employer the public remember who works for who and who pays the bills.

And most important why ID her what for. I am sorry but I too if a cop was acting suspicious I would be less the willing to tell the cop who I was and where I lived he would have to prove to me his cause first that he deserved that information.

Now some may think thats foolish but life has taught me one thing and that is Authority and power do corrupt, and it takes a very strong person to hold off its influence over them.

[patrickt]

Eugene40: I am a retired police officer. I worked for thirty years. I really don't need to hear your whine about how tough the job is. You're wrong, period. I've heard all sorts of people justify what they'd done. Didn't make it right. And keep in mind that every time you dump on someone you make it that much tougher for the next police officer that has to deal with them.

According to the article, "Stephanie Willett said she was eating a PayDay bar on an escalator descending into a station July 16 when an officer warned her to finish it before entering the station. Both Willett and police agree that she nodded and put the last bit into her mouth before throwing the wrapper into a trash can."

By all rights, it should have ended there. The officer may or may not have been following the woman. It was foolish for her to bait him with the "Don't you have something better to do," but he was equally foolish for pursuing it. A smile and, "Just doing my job," would have sufficed.

The incident was foolish but since only one of the two people involved is being paid his behavior is rightfully expected to be more professional the the citizen's.

Larani: The incident, in my opinion, should never have reached the point it did but once it had asking for I.D. is rather standard and I don't have a problem with that. Unfortunately, handcuffing is standard because of trial lawyers and lawsuits.

[cpwill]

Eugene40: Let me make sure I understand this. Be nice to cops or they will seriously screw you over? What a lovely philosophy.

cops have a range of choices in how they deal with you just as you have a range of choices in how you will deal with them; i think the philosophy of "if you want someone to be nice, try being nice to them" isnt all that bad at all. i've actually had some great conversations with police officers (ironically as they were writing me a ticket) on the roadside.

[patrickt]

CPWill: I totall agree. The police officer is trained and is being paid to conduct himself appropriately. You, on the other hand, are neither. I had a great conversation with a guy I stopped for speeding. It wasn't a horrible infraction but when I asked for his drivers license he lit off on me with the standard "don't you have anything better to do?" I was quiet for a moment and said, "You were speeding and I stopped you in the hopes that a warning would get you to slow down. It would appear that might not suffice." I was quiet another moment and said, "How about we start over? May I see your driver's license?" The guy sat a moment, laughed, and as I wrote him his warning he apologized for speeding and talked about a crappy day at work. I told him I took a short walk to work off steam when I was frazzled and he laughed again. Most people are doing the best they can. An officer I worked with came into the station complaining about a couple of drunks in a local bar who gave him flack when he went in. I said, "Jim, the highpoint of their life was their junior year in high school. It's been downhill ever since. Perhaps the only joy they get is ragging on you in that dumpy bar on Saturday night." Jim stormed into the bathroom and when he came out he said, "That's freaking pitiful but junior year was their high point."

Hey, it isn't personal. It might not even be you. The most abusive people I dealt with were at family fights and they weren't even mad at me.

But, back to the original article. Food isn't allowed on the trains. Good rule. The officer advised the woman to finish her candy bar before she entered the station. She did. That's it. If she threw him a crusty, who cares? Well, he cared and he shouldn't have.

[Stover]

The us against them, or is it we against they, is part of the problem. I saw this huge African-American policeman, bigger and taller than Warren Sapp. Anyway this punk/drunk saw fit to call our cop a rather derogatory name = n-----r. Cop, only smiles, flashing a gold tooth, and flips the bad dude clean over the police car. No more problems - bad dude turns out to be alright, unfortunately, and life moved on...

[jamesrage]

Sometimes I think cops do not get enough credit for the hard work they do.When I was younger I did not like cops I would sometimes refer to them as pigs,Penelopees(farmer brown's prized pig) and so on,but I grew up, joined the military for three years and got a whole new perscective.

[Stover]

Sometimes I think cops do not get enough credit for the hard work they do.When I was younger I did not like cops I would sometimes refer to them as pigs,Penelopees(farmer brown's prized pig) and so on,but I grew up, joined the military for three years and got a whole new perscective.

You got it. But, it does depend on the cop. Quick story. Living and breathing in San Francisco. One buddy was a cop -'bout 1972, now - we were heading for a no holds barred cop celebratory strip show, with audience participation. Buddy sees a hippy, long hair, scruffy, the whole bit. Decides to hassle same. Hippy waxes his cop ***! Moral - none. Just be careful who you **** with!

Another quick story. I was finishing off my career in the reserves as a first sergeant. My boss, the Command Sergeant - Major was a cop. He invited me and my wife to a party at his place, along with a bunch of cops from various San Francisco stations. Even a captain was there, and all kinds of merry jokes were exchanged about who the cap's next bag man would be. Motorcycle officer sitting on the long couch with me, asked what (police) station I was out of. Told him I was a federal special agent. You should have seen the figurative curtain drop! Both my wife I weren't shunned, we were dropped out the window (figuratively).

Even in retirement this animosity towards 'civilians' seems to continue. I am grateful for the one or two people in this forum who happened to have been cops, who have clarified things a bit. Did anyone else notice the frowning eye-rolling of Boston's finest at the DNC?

[jamesrage]

The idea that this cop had nothing better to do is ludacris,if he did not do anything he might have been repremanded by his suporvisor or some civilian might have took that as a cue to do what ever they want,the Military works the same way.Cops are not butlers or someone's ***** that they can hassel just because their tax dollars pay for their salary,people should not even have the "why are you bothering tax paying citizens instead of doing your job"attitude.

[playaazul]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/07/29/candybar.arrest.ap/index.html

Sure glad they are cracking down on the terrorists! I don't even think the Gestapo did this. Wow that Patriot act must have some teeth! :rolleyes:

We are rapidly turning into a nation of endless leash laws. A man in my community was recently arrested for not immediately extinguishing his cigarette (he'd also been drinking) in a city park. Smoking is prohibited at our beaches and parks as well as restaraunts.


I can see the reasoning for the indoor smoking ban but, geez, this guy was a tourist and we're a tourist town. That's probably why the incident wasn't reported in the paper.

This sort of thing is why I like escaping to Playa Azul. "No shirt, no shoes, no problem."

[eugene40]

Larani-
I choose take the side of the cop until I see evidence for the contrary. He might have been inappropriate but not really it is still his job,,, he still told her no eating and that is what he initially stopped her for. As for arresting her that is a little extreme especially for the infraction. I wouldn't have done it,,, in fact I would have just said hey read the sign and left it at that,, and maybe taken a better look at her.. But that is all.
And don't use the he had better things to do... what if in this contact and arrest he stopped and detained a terrorist with a bag of c4. Would you be saying that he had better things to do...
And as for the whole asking her for an ID,,,, I ask for everyones ID I like to know who I am talking too. It is kind of a safety issue,,, A person can be etremely nice to you and polite and so on and so forth and be a cold blooded killer. To me that is just good police work,,, I see a lot of cops just sitting there talking to people caught up in the covnersation. And they have know idea who it is... then someone gets the idea to run them,, or they get back to the station and for reasons unknown run the name and bday, and it turns out they have 5 warrants... First thing I was ever taught,,,, run everyones name.

[eugene40]

Patrickt-
I respect your opinion and your experience, I am sure that your years of duty has made you see that force isn't always the way.. I am still young and still new I don't have the veteran instincts that you have acquired. I still suspect the hell out of everyone.
I am in no way shape or form whining about the job... I love my job,,, it is challenging everyday and everyday brings something new. The reason that I do what I do is that I was scared straight so to speak by my mentor who guided me into my career.. I had my share of run ins with police before I met him and they were nice and a schuks kind of guys and I thought they were suckers at the time.... He scared me straight,, and I see that that is the way you can deal with most people when that is the only way they know. Though I try to balance between soft and hard LE. I have far to much intellect and patience to just go charging in to every situation. I can tell the difference between people that deserve to be treated nice and deserve to be treated the way that they treat people.
I agree the cop should have ended it there,,, for me it wouldn't have been that big of a deal,,, I mean you can't eat in a subway,,, is this junior high in history class... as I said to larani i would have told her to read the sign and did a quick look at her to see if she raises any of the bells and whistles in my gut.
The incident was extremely foolish and wouldn't be something that I would get into,, though I know officers that have no sense of humor and would have probably acted worse then this guy. But for some reason he detained her, asked for her ID... and she should have given it too him,,, she can talk to a lawyer later about was it right or harrassment or whatever. I think they both acted improperly,,, maybe a little more on the part of the officer cause we iif anything shouldn't be petty in our line of work...

[Larani]

Larani-
I choose take the side of the cop until I see evidence for the contrary. He might have been inappropriate but not really it is still his job,,,

By making this choice Eugene do you not then willfully bias yourself? And if biased can you really ever be consider impartial in your decisions and determinations? And if this is not so as you claim it is your choice afterall don't you see how as I said power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. Is it not already beginning to trickle in?


he still told her no eating and that is what he initially stopped her for.

Funny you see I don't see that in the story. In fact I am still wondering what he stopped her for since by both of their admissions she was done eating. It appears according to their testimony she was stop more for asking him didn't he have anything better to do? I don't think he like that challenge. and she paid the price. Though I beleive it was a legitimate question since she did comply and both ate the Candy and through the wrapper away appropriately.

Now if I chose to willfully biase myslef in favor of the Cop your right I think I would read that testimony completely differently, same happens on Jurys where the Jury believes that the Man is Guilty until the Defense Attorney can prove him innocent. Much evidence that is relevant is just look right over.

As I said Eugene you sound like a good cop, but only you striving to stay that way by your own decison will keep you that way. As bad as criminals are we cannot blame them for our own mistakes.

[patrickt]

Eugene40: I actually loved my job. Where I worked, they allowed you to move to whatever job you wanted when you got close to retiring. Sort of a way to decompress before bailing. I spent my last two years on foot patrol in the evening downtown and loved it. In thirty years, I met less than a dozen evil people. Most of the people I dealt with were dumb as a turnip but not evil.

A man who spent a number of years getting arrested bought the house next door to me. I went over to welcome him to the neighborhood and we got to chatting. We talked about people we both knew and I pointed out that almost all were dead. He nodded and admitted it wasn't a good life.

We talked about how he felt about me having arrested him. He thought a moment and said, "You only arrested me when I needed arresting but more than that, you never went out of your way to embarrass me." Treating people decently never hurts you.

I arrested a guy who'd been sniffing paint. He did not go easily. A few days later I was taking a report at the homeless shelter and he came up and said he wanted to talk to me. I assumed he wanted to complain about the charges. When I finished the report and went over he said, "I wanted to apologize. I was a real jerk yesterday." I thanked him for his apology. Six months later he was dead.

The best protection you have as a police officer isn't your bulletproof vest. It's your reputation. Not your reputation on the department but in the community.

Lastly, I think there's only one rehabilition program that works. It's called growing up. Unfortunately, some people never do. A friend of mine asked me once, "Do you remember so-and-so?" I laughed and said I remembered him well. "What do you think he's doing now?" "Ten to twenty." My friend laughed and said, "He works at the post office and lives down the street from me." My friend went on to say he'd asked the guy what had happened to change things and the guy shrugged and said, "I quit drinking, got a job, got married, and things just got normal." That's usually the way it happens.

[eugene40]

Larani- ok I am sorry i worded that badly... I give the cop the benefit of a doubt. Until that is I get the whole story,,, and I do personally seek out the whole story. I have to for my own personal knowledge. But I have to trust my brothers and sisters until they give me a reason not to. If not I would have ulcers the size of baseballs. I don't agree with what he did By no means, but it is like with anything we are not told the whole story especially with a lot of the media that there is today and if it is the whole story and the cop was a friend of mine I would lose a lot of respect for them....
And lord Acton said a lot of things.. I think in the most part it is an inherent truth. But I still think it lies within the person to become corrupt or not.. I am of that character that will not. I am far to humble for that. And far to appreciative for what I have and who I am.

I am wondering why he stopped her too, it doesn't say what it wa for in the article and we probably won't know hence the distrust of the media. They just wanted the headline,,, woman arrested for eating a candy bar.

Bias happens on jurys,,, but again the door swings both ways. I look at the article and see wonder what the heck,, why did he even contact her,,, why did he feel it pertintent for the further contact. And why is this story even news worthy.

I believe I am a good person I leave my vocation out of it, who I am during that time is just the same person I am normally, Just a little more vigilinte. I don't blame anyone for my mistakes, even if I am dealing with a criminal. My mistakes are mine and mine alone there is no sharing when it comes to them.

[Chelle]

Seems pretty simple to me. Maybe it shouldn't be?

He asked her to finish her candybar, she jammed it into her mouth. That should've been the end of it.

Okay, so the guy then asks for her ID. Instead of asking if he didn't have anything better to do, why didn't she just give him her ID?

I guess I was raised to respect authority figures? Or maybe I'm missing something here. What was the big damned deal? Show him the freaking ID, and get on with things.

If she took offense to his actions, show him the ID, and get his badge number and file a complaint. Is that too much to ask?

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. I can only imagine what would've happened if someone was pulled over on a highway and then asked the Highway Patrol officer if he didn't have anything better to do.