Any Scientologists out there?

[Dante1999]

I enjoy learning about other religions... and i guess in effect i would like to learn more about Scientology. Also ask some questions. If anyone has any information...of if there are any members...please post.

Dante

[mahayana]

I am not a Scientologist, but have read the books. I bought one at my University over 30 years ago, and they still send literature regularly. Persistent people!

What was it you want to know?

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by mahayana
I am not a Scientologist, but have read the books. I bought one at my University over 30 years ago, and they still send literature regularly. Persistent people!

What was it you want to know? Their world HQ is in Clearwater, Florida. They don't have the best reputation here. A couple of years back they were accused of not allowing one of their members medical care and she died.

Some say L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the "movement", was in a bar with some drinking buddies and got a wild idea about founding a new religion. . . .it was a bet as to whether or not it would work.

I too have read his books and they are a mixture of sociology and psychology with new terms relating to the individual. And, if you REALLY move up you become (ahem) CLEAR and can therefore help others to achieve this level. 'Course, the money for the courses go right along with the steps, if you get my drift.

The word scam comes to mind.

[Dante1999]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
Some say L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the "movement", was in a bar with some drinking buddies and got a wild idea about founding a new religion. . . .it was a bet as to whether or not it would work.

I found a quote by Hubbard the other night that mirrors your statement.

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion" -L. Ron Hubbard

So there it is. I also see scam written all over the whole ordeal. I was mostly interested in the story line, of the supposed alien tranplantation and everything of that nature. I found a site in which a former member of scientology describes the levels and the things she went through...including the montetary amounts she had to pay. I havent had the time to look through everything, but so far is has proved interesting.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/xenu/xenu.html

Dante

[Blueangel]

I've got serious issue with ANY so-called 'religion' that extracts funds from it's members (other than willing donations) and denies them life saving medical care because it's against their ethos.

I only pity the poor fools that fall for these obnoxious scams.

[mahayana]

Actually, some famous people are into it, Tom Cruise for one.

The basic idea is that there are "engrams" in your brain, causing irrationality. Hubbard took the Buddhist idea of enlightenment and tried to combine it with his science-fiction. He may have been influenced by "Stranger In A Strange Land", which was an SF story about a Martian starting a religion.

Scientology is a cash-for-classes and being "monitored" on the e-meter arrangement, and there is a lot of 70's style behaviorism thrown in.

It's an interesting idea, starting a religion that makes sense to scientific sensibility. Of course, there are many economic benefits to being a "religion" like not paying taxes. Or maybe he really was trying to save mankind.

And just think, if L.Ron Hubbard had been given a first name starting with the letter "N", he might have called himself N.Ron...

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by mahayana
Actually, some famous people are into it, Tom Cruise for one.

The basic idea is that there are "engrams" in your brain, causing irrationality. Hubbard took the Buddhist idea of enlightenment and tried to combine it with his science-fiction. He may have been influenced by "Stranger In A Strange Land", which was an SF story about a Martian starting a religion.

Scientology is a cash-for-classes and being "monitored" on the e-meter arrangement, and there is a lot of 70's style behaviorism thrown in.

It's an interesting idea, starting a religion that makes sense to scientific sensibility. Of course, there are many economic benefits to being a "religion" like not paying taxes. Or maybe he really was trying to save mankind.

And just think, if L.Ron Hubbard had been given a first name starting with the letter "N", he might have called himself N.Ron...
OOhh, hadn't thought of that. . . .Maybe his name is code for........
oh, never mind.

[Missouri Mule]

That should tell us something about these Hollywood types and their mindset. Why does anyone listen to these people?

[Strel]

Scientologists HATE me.


These guys (the Clearwater bunch) used to masquerade as an organization called the "Citizen's Commission on Human Rights". Under this guise (they were always reluctant to reveal their connection to the Church of Scientology, which should tell you something right there), they would file reams of formal complaints against psychiatrists in Florida.

Part of my job at the time, when I was right out of school, was to sift through these complaints and determine which ones merited further investigation or were legally sufficient to inverstigate. All of their complaints involved patients of psychiatrists that were either former, current or potential "recruits" for the Church of Scientology who were receiving Prozac. Apparently, when some of these people began to be treated for depression they suddenly lost interest in having the Church treat their "engrams" (and the Church was suddenly out of the thousands of dollars they charged to treat the "engrams").

They set themselves up as "competition" for psychiatrists, and filed all these malpractice complaints against them, claiming this, that or the other. Funny thing was that none of the patients were going along with the complaints!

So I dismissed all the cases. It was something like 30 of them, and all of them included a letter with my name on the bottom. Next thing I know the Church of Scientology is complaining to my boss and his boss and everyone that would listen that I arbitrarily dismissed their complaints, etc.

I think those guys ought to be investigated by the IRS - they run themselves like a business, not a religion, and IMHO don't deserve tax-exempt status.

They also have a nasty habit of suing people that leave the Church and expose its "secrets"....one of the first and most famous cyberlaw intellectual property cases involved a guy that left the Church and published some of their secret stuff. The Church successfully sued him, the BBS and the ISP! They are very aggressive when they want to be.

[Missouri Mule]

I don't think too highly of them either.

BTW, I see you are in Florida. What do you think of the Limbaugh business? Will they nail him? I guess we should start a new thread.

[whatever]

what is Scientologists? ( not from US, so never heard of it until to day)
how can it be classified under religion, religion is supposed to worship a god or many gods. it should be just a philosophy.
anyway it sounds like the kind of "fake religions" we have in my country as well.

[DRMIZER]

From what I read some 15 years ago, the C of S operates under the guise of religion and redefined psych terms into their own lingo. Therefore they would see psychs as in conflict with them.

They have taken Freudian terms, DDX, and turned them into more readable and acceptable terms so that their followers have a better grasp on how to become "clear" (sane).

If they weren't operating under the protection of a church they would be prosecuted for practicing psychology-psychiatry (medicine) without a license.

[mahayana]

I think their goal is closer to "enlightenment" than to sanity.

It is an attempt at a "rational" religion, which accepts scienctific sensibility. That's what draws people to it.

As far as getting recognition as a Church, I would like to see their original application for tax-exempt status. Do you think this is in the public domain somewhere? Would make interesting reading.

Scientology is one of the newest religions. It is American. Perhaps we should offer ideas on how to improve them, rather than just condemning?

If you decided to start a religion that made sense to modern people, how would you proceed?

[Strel]

Limbaugh should get a decision today about his medical records. Florida has a pretty advanced privacy law, it's written into the Florida Constitution even, and I used to have to deal with the specific laws about medical records privacy. It is a misdemeanor in Florida for a state employee to publish or reveal details about a patient's medical records during an investigation of a physician, for example. We used to have to go extraordinary lengths to protect patient privacy sometimes.


But in this case I would be rather surprised if the judge wouldn't let a criminal prosecutor have access to the medical records. Whether the drugs were medically necessary is one of the central issues of the case. Limbaugh's lawyers are trying to scuttle the case (though they may say it is about privacy, it is also about trial tactics), thinking that if the prosecution doesn't have the medical records to rely upon, they won't be able to prove the charges. It's risky...and I think the only reason they are doing it is because the defense knows that the records will indicate that Rush had been "doctor shopping". A good prosecutor ought to be able to put the case on without them too -- if Rush is successful, he won't be able to use "medical necessity" as a defense either. It's a gamble for him to try this...

[Captain America]

That should tell us something about these Hollywood types and their mindset. Why does anyone listen to these people?

Reminds me of Ahhhnold and all the people who voted for him!:laughter:

Rush's medical records will be revealed. He's just a junkie in a right-wing business suit making money off of the foolish masses by pouring verbal gasoline on their fire. Much like a tent preacher in the deep south bible-belt.

Telling people what they want to hear often pays handsomely. The evidence is all around.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by mahayana
If you decided to start a religion that made sense to modern people, how would you proceed? There is no religion that makes sense.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Strelnikov
Limbaugh should get a decision today about his medical records. Florida has a pretty advanced privacy law, it's written into the Florida Constitution even, and I used to have to deal with the specific laws about medical records privacy. It is a misdemeanor in Florida for a state employee to publish or reveal details about a patient's medical records during an investigation of a physician, for example. We used to have to go extraordinary lengths to protect patient privacy sometimes.


But in this case I would be rather surprised if the judge wouldn't let a criminal prosecutor have access to the medical records. Whether the drugs were medically necessary is one of the central issues of the case. Limbaugh's lawyers are trying to scuttle the case (though they may say it is about privacy, it is also about trial tactics), thinking that if the prosecution doesn't have the medical records to rely upon, they won't be able to prove the charges. It's risky...and I think the only reason they are doing it is because the defense knows that the records will indicate that Rush had been "doctor shopping". A good prosecutor ought to be able to put the case on without them too -- if Rush is successful, he won't be able to use "medical necessity" as a defense either. It's a gamble for him to try this...

You are referring to HIPA. The judge has already given the prosecution permission to get his records. The defense, of course, will appeal.

Don't forget. . .whether or not they give permission to unseal his records, he was buying drugs off the street. Oops!

[mahayana]

I just wanted to say that if RL is a Scientologist, we shouldn't generalize that all Scientologists are like him!

[JustinH]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
There is no religion that makes sense.

I disagree. Everyone finds a religion that makes sense, and sometimes that is no religion at all. I'm sometimes caught in shock when people tell me how they interperet passages in the Bible... sometimes if their 8 year olds were the one's telling the story.

As for scientology... not interested at all. But I applaud anyone willing to at least look into it and see if it is an option.

[mahayana]

Again, I am not and never have been a Scientologist. But I have read their literature. I'm on their mailing list.

I have found a bit of info this week, from a 1960 book by Maxwell Maltz "Psycho-Cybernetics."

Apparently, L.Ron Hubbard did not make up the idea of "engrams." Brain physiologists Dr.John C. Eccles and Sir Charles Sherrington used the word in an article "The Science of Imagination", Scientific American, September 1958.

"The human cortex is composed of some 10 billion neurons, each with numerous axons which form synapses (electrical connections) between the neurons. When we think, imagine or remember, these neurons discharge an electrical current which can be measured. When we learn something, or experience something, a pattern of neurons forming a "chain" is set up in brain tissue...

"This pattern is not in the nature of a physical "groove"...but more in the nature of an "electrical track"- the arrangement and electrical connections between various neurons being somewhat similar to a magnetic pattern recorded on tape...

"These patterns, or "engrams", are stored away in brain tissue for future use, and are reactivated , or replayed whenever we remember a past experience."

[Voice Of Reason]

RL got addicted to drugs becasue of pain........That is far different then a recreational drug user getting addicted........
A plea bargain will be reached and he will get probation and get some type of community service..........

Book it...............

[EvilTwinFelicia]

Originally posted by Voice Of Reason
RL got addicted to drugs becasue of pain........That is far different then a recreational drug user getting addicted........
A plea bargain will be reached and he will get probation and get some type of community service..........

Book it...............

Excuses, excuses. Rush could have went into a pain management program-- but, he prefered the pain management dished out by his housekeeper. Sorry, I don't buy it. I've had chronic pain since 1997, thanks to a car accident and 6 subsequent surgeries. Have I ever been hooked on pain drugs? Nope. My surgeon suggested, and got me into a great pain management program.

There is no excuse for Rush. Obtaining drugs illegally, despite the reason-- is just that-- illegal. He needs to do the perp walk and get some jail time.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by mahayana
I have found a bit of info this week, from a 1960 book by Maxwell Maltz "Psycho-Cybernetics."

Apparently, L.Ron Hubbard did not make up the idea of "engrams." Brain physiologists Dr.John C. Eccles and Sir Charles Sherrington used the word in an article "The Science of Imagination", Scientific American, September 1958.

"The human cortex is composed of some 10 billion neurons, each with numerous axons which form synapses (electrical connections) between the neurons. When we think, imagine or remember, these neurons discharge an electrical current which can be measured. When we learn something, or experience something, a pattern of neurons forming a "chain" is set up in brain tissue...

"This pattern is not in the nature of a physical "groove"...but more in the nature of an "electrical track"- the arrangement and electrical connections between various neurons being somewhat similar to a magnetic pattern recorded on tape...
It's all made up. Hint. . .all psychologists are BRAIN psychologists. There is no science of imagination. These are contradictory terms.

This "stuff" makes good reading but it is unscientific bunk! The cortex, synapses, etc. was borrowed from "real" psychologists.

What you have offered here is a rendered down version of what we really know about the subject. There has not been any fact proven to relate the brain and it's many capabilities of carrying on or contributing to religious throught as the Scientologists have reportedly put it together.

[mahayana]

Hey Drmizer, I was not offering the above from Scientology, it's from "Scientific American." 43 years ago, before Scientology!

I have no idea what a brain psychologist would be, these dudes were brain physiologists, espousing some then-current mechanistic type of theory.

I'm not a Scientologist and neither were those authors.

I was just making a tiny point, that L.Ron didn't make up that word; in fact Webster's says "engram"(1908, fr. engramme).

That said, I doubt that I disagree with you at all about Scientology. I'm glad they don't do door-to-door missions. They have my address!

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by mahayana
Hey Drmizer, I was not offering the above from Scientology, it's from "Scientific American." 43 years ago, before Scientology!

I have no idea what a brain psychologist would be, these dudes were brain physiologists, espousing some then-current mechanistic type of theory.

I'm not a Scientologist and neither were those authors.

I was just making a tiny point, that L.Ron didn't make up that word; in fact Webster's says "engram"(1908, fr. engramme).

That said, I doubt that I disagree with you at all about Scientology. I'm glad they don't do door-to-door missions. They have my address! AGREED!! :D