Must Read This!!!!

[peavine]

Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ

[::Major_Baker::]

Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ

What does God have to offer? If I admit to him that I can't 'do it' on my own, what is he going to do to help me?
I have been in many holes, and have climbed out of them on my own. It's called self-reliance.

Death everywhere.....very true. Now what is God going to do about this? He doesn't seem to be doing much.

What does God have to offer? What is 'true peace'?
Are you trying to 'spread the word'?

[peavine]

What does God have to offer? If I admit to him that I can't 'do it' on my own, what is he going to do to help me?
I have been in many holes, and have climbed out of them on my own. It's called self-reliance.

Death everywhere.....very true. Now what is God going to do about this? He doesn't seem to be doing much.

What does God have to offer? What is 'true peace'?
Are you trying to 'spread the word'?
HE'LL HELP YOU YES. I CONGRAT YOU ON CLIMBING OUT BY YOURSELF, I COULDN'T. DEATH IS A NATURAL HAPPENING GOD IS NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING ABOUT EARTHLY DEATH, BUT HE WILL OFFER LIFE TO ANYONE WHO WILL ACCEPT IT. I CONSIDER MY SELF PRETTY TOUGH, YOU SOUND PRETTY TOUGH, BUT WHEN THAT MOMENT COMES SOONER OR LATER WHEN WE KNOW OUR LAST BREATH IS COMING ALL OF OUR TOUGHNESS WILL TURN TO DESPERATENESS(IF THATS EVEN A WORD), AND IF YOU TRUST IN HIM YOU'LL LIVE ON WITH YOUR LOVED ONES, SOUNDS FAR FETCHED I KNOW BUT THATS WHAT I TRULY BELIEVE AND IT HAS GIVEN ME PEACE. I CAN GET CAUGHT UP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN DEBATING THESE POLITICAL ISSUES, ITS A HOBBY, ITS FUN FOR ME, I CAN GET RILED UP EVEN AS A CHRISTIAN IM NOT PERFECT LIKE ALOT OF PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE TO BE. I DONT HAVE A LISCENSE TO SIN, IM JUST FORGIVEN WHEN I DO STUMBLE IN THIS SELF CULTIVATING LIFE IVE CHOSEN. SO LETS KEEP DEBATING, IVE PROBABLY MADE SOME MAD AT ME ON WHERE I STAND POLITICALLY, BUT IF YOUR GONNA JOIN A FORUM SUCH AS THIS THAT COMES WITH THE TERRITORY, THIS IS ONE OF MY HOBBIES BUT CHRIST IS ALL IVE GOT.

[::Major_Baker::]

I've tried it all, but was excluded from the mainstream Christian viewpoint becuase "you can't just choose what parts of the bible to believe"---and there is alot of hogwash in there, that young gullible kids would even have trouble believing, IMO.
I'm a scientist, more or less, and there are several substantial viewpoints that I can't budge on.

*I had a Lutheran Pastor tell me my deceased father is burning eternally in hell---a bit of a turn off to religion if you ask me.

I appreciate debating with you, and no-one is mad at you for what or how you believe.

ps, I know there is something wong with your shift key, but caps are hard to read dude!

[peavine]

I've tried it all, but was excluded from the mainstream Christian viewpoint becuase "you can't just choose what parts of the bible to believe"---and there is alot of hogwash in there, that young gullible kids would even have trouble believing, IMO.
I'm a scientist, more or less, and there are several substantial viewpoints that I can't budge on.

*I had a Lutheran Pastor tell me my deceased father is burning eternally in hell---a bit of a turn off to religion if you ask me.

I appreciate debating with you, and no-one is mad at you for what or how you believe.

ps, I know there is something wong with your shift key, but caps are hard to read dude!
there is a passage of scripture in the bible i cant quote it verbatum but the jest of it is if you are part of the church and you turn someone off(which happens too much these days) you will be accountable. there is no excuse for a pastor i hesitate giving the man that told you that the title of pastor but there is no excuse for telling a child or anyone for that matter, that about your father. i believe there is two final destinations but the so called pastor dont determine who's going and who's there.
so theres some of my belief, from a science point of view,what our yours concerning creation ect.

[::Major_Baker::]

creation is not science, has no basis of fact, and therfore is a falsity in my eyes. I am not discounting that a higher hand may have helped, but not as the bible says word for word. Seven days? BS
I tend to believe evolution.

[peavine]

creation is not science, has no basis of fact, and therfore is a falsity in my eyes. I am not discounting that a higher hand may have helped, but not as the bible says word for word. Seven days? BS
I tend to believe evolution.
something was brought to my attention not long ago, time terms are not the same with god, although i believe if he wanted to he could've done it in a minute. but what is stated as days or years in the bible could mean something totally different. i dont know enough about that to go on but it made sense to me as far as carbon dating, creation, even dinosaurs. there are some who dont believe dinosaurs existed, i do, and the message i heard really helped me in my humble rations.

[::Major_Baker::]

I've heard all the twists and interpretaions you are mentioning.
A true fundamentalist would say: nope, it was seven days.

Ever stop to think that it would be physically impossible to fit 2 of each species of animal on a boat?

[cytwombly]

Everytime someone writes, "must read this" I fall for it like Lucy pulling the ball out from Charlie Brown. You wrote nonsense and should be ashamed of yourself for not being forthright about your subject. But people who write "must read this" all have same overvaluation of the importance of what they say.

[peavine]

I've heard all the twists and interpretaions you are mentioning.
A true fundamentalist would say: nope, it was seven days.

Ever stop to think that it would be physically impossible to fit 2 of each species of animal on a boat?
Man i cant explain it all, i dont think somethings are meant to be explained thats where my faith kicks in. not to get defensive but i could say what did we evolve from a cell, where where did that cell come from ect.. anyway it works for me and if i could I'd change your mind, that probably goes both ways. thanks for the visit

[peavine]

Everytime someone writes, "must read this" I fall for it like Lucy pulling the ball out from Charlie Brown. You wrote nonsense and should be ashamed of yourself for not being forthright about your subject. But people who write "must read this" all have same overvaluation of the importance of what they say.
Im glad you read it, maybe you'll think of it sometime

[::Major_Baker::]

Man i cant explain it all, i dont think somethings are meant to be explained thats where my faith kicks in. not to get defensive but i could say what did we evolve from a cell, where where did that cell come from ect.. anyway it works for me and if i could I'd change your mind, that probably goes both ways. thanks for the visit

Actually I have no reason nor desire to change your mind. I repsect what you believe, just don't try to make me believe the same, and we're cool. To me religion should be a personal thing between you and God, and shouldn't be exacted in legislation or education.

I also have heard that: Some things you just can't understand, just have faith in God. Of course some things you can't understand. Do you have to understand everything? Can't some things just remain unknown?

The cell theory you briefy spoke of bring me back to my status as an agnostic---Not sure how it all started. Could have been a greater spirit, could have been a freaky chemical reaction. I'm ok with not knowing the secret of life. I just can rest assured that it didn't happen how it is written in the bible, and science can prove it, for the most part.

[cytwombly]

Im glad you read it, maybe you'll think of it sometime

Learned that when I was a child--like you are. And your condescending attitude is obnoxious.

[::Major_Baker::]

Learned that when I was a child--like you are. And your condescending attitude is obnoxious.
No need for hostility dude.
Just ignore the thread if you think it's bogus.

[cytwombly]

No need for hostility dude.
Just ignore the thread if you think it's bogus.

You need to be told you are an egotist: Jesus did not preach moral self righteousness.

(And don't write "must read" if you can't handle the attention. Ok?)

[::Major_Baker::]

You need to be told you are an egotist: Jesus did not preach moral self righteousness.

(And don't write "must read" if you can't handle the attention. Ok?)

You need to read the thread more carefully. Jesus didn't preach anything to me.
You are relpying to the wrong person, again with hostility. I suggest you read the forum rules.

[cytwombly]

You need to read the thread more carefully. Jesus didn't preach anything to me.
You are relpying to the wrong person, again with hostility. I suggest you read the forum rules.

I suggest you not step in to a discussion that is not about you. You just aggrevated the situation. Like I said, the beginning of a thread "must read" is always a big waste. I will in fact ignore this whole thing. I said what I wanted to say: Big Waste.

[peavine]

Learned that when I was a child--like you are. And your condescending attitude is obnoxious.
Ive can get an attitude about most things but i try not to. what you read earlier is not an attitude though its a way of life for me. Im cool with what the major said about not trying to change anyone, fair deal, but your new so am i to this sight ive said some things off the cuff i would change but this can be a fun sight if you let it. so take what i said or leave it. I might not make another post like the "must read" one, but in my opinion its the most important. So lighten up or dont your choice. later

[::Major_Baker::]

I suggest you not step in to a discussion that is not about you. You just aggrevated the situation. Like I said, the beginning of a thread "must read" is always a big waste. I will in fact ignore this whole thing. I said what I wanted to say: Big Waste.

I agree that the thread was inapproprately titled.
But when I see personal insults, like calling somone a child, it is my duty to step into it. Just be on your merry way, if you have nothing substantial to contribute.
No harm done. :)

[cytwombly]

I agree that the thread was inapproprately titled.
But when I see personal insults, like calling somone a child, it is my duty to step into it.
No harm done. :)

I would advise you to read what I originally wrote, quite specific really. You had no duty to step in because you did not read with comprehension.
I will explain: I told the person(not you) who started this that I learned to say the things he did(dogma; cliches) when I was a child: I was absolutely being serious. Thus to refer to him(not you) as a child was a statement that his spirituality was that of a child.
If you had actually read what I wrote (again, it was not directed toward you) you would have had the wisdom to not generate more hostility.

[Mr.BlueOil]

IVE PROBABLY MADE SOME MAD AT ME ON WHERE I STAND POLITICALLY, BUT IF YOUR GONNA JOIN A FORUM SUCH AS THIS THAT COMES WITH THE TERRITORY, THIS IS ONE OF MY HOBBIES BUT CHRIST IS ALL IVE GOT.

The only thing you've done to make me mad is use caps. Loosen up, a loose body floats to the top of the water, a constricted body sinks to the bottom and drowns.

[Mr.BlueOil]

something was brought to my attention not long ago, time terms are not the same with god, although i believe if he wanted to he could've done it in a minute. but what is stated as days or years in the bible could mean something totally different. i dont know enough about that to go on but it made sense to me as far as carbon dating, creation, even dinosaurs. there are some who dont believe dinosaurs existed, i do, and the message i heard really helped me in my humble rations.

Honestly as I beleive the bible is man made, I think it was a reflection of a calender. 7 days in a week 4 weeks in a month 13 months in a year. You know... back in the day before the current messed up calender system we use now. The 13 moon calender makes alot more sence. Actually I think I'll start a thread on that..

[::Major_Baker::]

ok I'm not gonna argue with you all day. You called the guy a child, not his spirituality. Easy to comprehend--no trouble there.
Now let's just leave it alone. :o

unless you want to get beat down by a cheesehead ;)


Now back to the strangely shallow religion conversation.....

[Mr.BlueOil]

Man i cant explain it all, i dont think somethings are meant to be explained thats where my faith kicks in. not to get defensive but i could say what did we evolve from a cell, where where did that cell come from ect.. anyway it works for me and if i could I'd change your mind, that probably goes both ways. thanks for the visit

Not to toss this thread right off topic, but...

I find comfort in beliving by chemical energy did the first formation of a cell exist. I also belive that the string of evolution threw the dna of species found on this planet is formed dependantly on the substances the cells come accross. Such as one cell eating another, somehow gaining dna info and evolving slowly over much time. I also think the huge leap in man could be explained by man's ability to reproduce fire, and change man's ingestion of food from a raw bloody matter, to a finer source, cooked food.

Then again I'm crazy, although I'll have to start a thread on that one too.

[cytwombly]

[QUOTE=::Major_Baker::]ok I'm not gonna argue with you all day. You called the guy a child, not his spirituality. Easy to comprehend--no trouble there.
Now let's just leave it alone. :o

[SIZE=1]

Like I said, you should make sure you understand the conversation before chastizing someone. You didn't and still don't. "you are a child" refers to what this person said; maybe if you just apologized to me I would not think you were writing to stand up for what this now silent person said.

[::Major_Baker::]

[QUOTE=::Major_Baker::]ok I'm not gonna argue with you all day. You called the guy a child, not his spirituality. Easy to comprehend--no trouble there.
Now let's just leave it alone. :o

[SIZE=1]

Like I said, you should make sure you understand the conversation before chastizing someone. You didn't and still don't. "you are a child" refers to what this person said; maybe if you just apologized to me I would not think you were writing to stand up for what this now silent person said.

I tried to take this to private messages but you must not check them.'

Look dude, I am not psychic. Context is hard to interpret on the internet. But when you type this:
Learned that when I was a child--like you are.
There is only one message I get from that. Perhaps you should have typed more carefully, like "your spirituality is like a child's." remember, we can't 'hear' tone of voice or emotion in a string of text.

I will not apologize, as I did nothing wrong. I think it's time we move on, is this so hard to do?

[peavine]

[QUOTE=::Major_Baker::]ok I'm not gonna argue with you all day. You called the guy a child, not his spirituality. Easy to comprehend--no trouble there.
Now let's just leave it alone. :o

[SIZE=1]

Like I said, you should make sure you understand the conversation before chastizing someone. You didn't and still don't. "you are a child" refers to what this person said; maybe if you just apologized to me I would not think you were writing to stand up for what this now silent person said.
i wouldn't consider myself a quiet person, but it does no good to argue when spiritual beliefs are as different as ours. ill argue all day about most things. now from your first response you regreted even stumbling on to this thread, now you wont drop it. child is not an insult to me but if you meant it that way thats way on down the list of things im worried about. from now on its not a mistake that your at this thread.

[cytwombly]

i wouldn't consider myself a quiet person, but it does no good to argue when spiritual beliefs are as different as ours. ill argue all day about most things. now from your first response you regreted even stumbling on to this thread, now you wont drop it. child is not an insult to me but if you meant it that way thats way on down the list of things im worried about. from now on its not a mistake that your at this thread.

You are correct. You properly did not take "child" as an insult.

[cytwombly]

The mistake here is that in some web forums, any subject line that deliberately misrepresents the content is deleted. Such as this one.
I thought maybe you needed to understand this and not do it again.

[peavine]

The mistake here is that in some web forums, any subject line that deliberately misrepresents the content is deleted. Such as this one.
I thought maybe you needed to understand this and not do it again.
oh it wasn't a mistake, i probably wont but i may do it again. how was this misrepresentation? if you say must read, what if i would have named it must smash your computer? would i be responsible? any way thats too much sarcasim on my part. i appreciate your more civil attitude so just because i didn't sign on to listen to your rules dont mean there should be any hard feelings. look forward to visiting again. later

[Jray573]

Hmm... the Religion section, and a thread that says "Must Read This!!!!" How many different things could it be about?

Maybe you should lighten up, cytwombly.

It seems to me like the guy is excited about something, and felt that it was urgent and important for everyone else to hear. Now maybe you don't agree, but you don't have to ruin his thread over it.

[mahayana]

Hello, peavine.

Your message

"Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ"

does raise a number of questions.

For instance, do you want to be a preacher? Do you want to share details about how you came to be saved? I'm curious about your age and educational background. This forum doesn't have a lot of non-standard useage ("A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle" would be written "A forgive and learn-as-you-go lifestyle"). Is there some reason for all caps, no caps, free-style instead of standard english? It's a bit distracting.

What exactly did you want to accomplish with this thread? Just wondering.

[Michele]

Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ

okay grace through christ... I am one in a figurative way to have a high appreciation for christ's teachings myself... though I am not religious. All in all, and I don't mean to be critical, but I find epiphany's such as this tend to leave me scratching my head...

umm.

[peavine]

Hello, peavine.

Your message

"Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ"

does raise a number of questions.

For instance, do you want to be a preacher? Do you want to share details about how you came to be saved? I'm curious about your age and educational background. This forum doesn't have a lot of non-standard useage ("A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle" would be written "A forgive and learn-as-you-go lifestyle"). Is there some reason for all caps, no caps, free-style instead of standard english? It's a bit distracting.

What exactly did you want to accomplish with this thread? Just wondering.
hello, i couldn't tell if you were trying to be insulting or not so ill assume you wasn't. so no i dont see myself in the near future surrendering to preach. i came to be saved by first admitting i was lost (living how i shouldn't) believing christ was born, lived a sinless life, became sin for me and you, died a gruesome death, and the most important part rose on the third day. thats it. thats my refuge. again mine. i posted it in hopes of at least one person seeing it and trying it. people give their insight on alot of things in this forum, this is mine and i make no apologies for posting it. a favor to you may be anytime you see my post "peavine" that will mean it is me posting and just know that grammer and spelling is not a priority to me on this forum. so do your self a favor and just not click on the peavine post. no hard feelings

[mahayana]

"okay grace through christ... I am one in a figurative way to have a high appreciation for christ's teachings myself... though I am not religious. All in all, and I don't mean to be critical, but I find epiphany's such as this tend to leave me scratching my head...

umm."

Michele, I'm much the same way. I was raised as Methodist, my parents were both preacher's kids, now I'm a Jesus-loving buddhist, hah! The whole "perfect Lamb, sacrificed for the sins of the world" thing never made sense to me. The world would be a better place if more people heeded the teachings about doing unto others, turning the other cheek, judging not, praying in a closet instead of making a public display, finding the Kingdom within, many others.

Peavine, I didn't mean to be insulting about your presentation. Your spelling is better than many on here. :)

[travisrepub12]

What does God have to offer? If I admit to him that I can't 'do it' on my own, what is he going to do to help me?
I have been in many holes, and have climbed out of them on my own. It's called self-reliance.

Death everywhere.....very true. Now what is God going to do about this? He doesn't seem to be doing much.

What does God have to offer? What is 'true peace'?
Are you trying to 'spread the word'?
God offers everlasting life. Your body will die, God's offering you the chance to not let your sould die. The fate of those who refuse Jesus is described here:
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"(Revelation 20:10-15).

[mahayana]

Hmmm...sounds like glad tidings of comfort and joy!

[travisrepub12]

Hmmm...sounds like glad tidings of comfort and joy!
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). Sound comforting to you? Or look at my signature.

[mahayana]

Travis, honestly, God being appeased by a human sacrifice, or that of his son if you will, makes no sense to me. Jewish alters dripping with blood don't make sense to me either. Different culture, different assumptions. And the carrot and stick of heaven and hell seems a poor basis for moral choices.

You may find this excerpt from Tartt's "The Secret History," 1992, to be of interest. I give credit to the Roman Empire (following the conversion of Constantine's wife) for spreading the version of Christ's message which you believe in.

"The Roman genius, and perhaps the Roman flaw...was an obsession with order. One sees it in their architecture, their literature, their laws- this fierce denial of darkness, unreason, chaos. Easy to see why the Romans, usually so tolerant of foreign religions, persecuted the Christians mercilessly- how absurd to think a common criminal had risen from the dead, how appalling that his followers celebrated him by drinking his blood. The illogic of it freightened them and they did everything they could to crush it. In fact, I think the reason they took such drastic steps was because they were not only freightened but also terribly attracted to it. Pragmatists are often strangely superstitious. For all their logic, who lived in more abject terror of the supernatural than the Romans?"

It took nearly 300 years for the mystery religion to be embraced by the Empire, the rest, as they say, is history.

[Redratio1]

Just Try Living Life On Your Own, Making Your Own Decisions, Choose A Few, (alot In My Case) Wrong Paths, Try Everything But God, Dig Yourself A Hole You Cant Climb Out Of On Your Own. Get To A Place Where You Can Look No Where But Up. Then Give Jesus A Try, Admit To Him You Cant Do It On Your Own, Just Believe And He'll Bring You Out Of Your Distress. The Road Wont Be Always Easy But He'll Be With You Always. Christianity Is Not A Holier Than Thou Lifestyle,its A Forgiven Learn As You Go Lifestyle. You Will Know No True Peace Till You Experience What God Has To Offer. Just Look Around You, Death Everywhere, Loved Ones Here Today Gone Tomorrow, I For One Cant Put My Faith In This World. We Have Grace Through Christ

Haha defeated by the anti-caps server.
Christ is in the past. In fact everything is in the past. Live for the now, because you have no long term future. Embrace the nothingness from which you came and which you end up (food for worms). :angel:

[travisrepub12]

Travis, honestly, God being appeased by a human sacrifice, or that of his son if you will, makes no sense to me. Jewish alters dripping with blood don't make sense to me either. Different culture, different assumptions. And the carrot and stick of heaven and hell seems a poor basis for moral choices.

You may find this excerpt from Tartt's "The Secret History," 1992, to be of interest. I give credit to the Roman Empire (following the conversion of Constantine's wife) for spreading the version of Christ's message which you believe in.

"The Roman genius, and perhaps the Roman flaw...was an obsession with order. One sees it in their architecture, their literature, their laws- this fierce denial of darkness, unreason, chaos. Easy to see why the Romans, usually so tolerant of foreign religions, persecuted the Christians mercilessly- how absurd to think a common criminal had risen from the dead, how appalling that his followers celebrated him by drinking his blood. The illogic of it freightened them and they did everything they could to crush it. In fact, I think the reason they took such drastic steps was because they were not only freightened but also terribly attracted to it. Pragmatists are often strangely superstitious. For all their logic, who lived in more abject terror of the supernatural than the Romans?"

It took nearly 300 years for the mystery religion to be embraced by the Empire, the rest, as they say, is history.
Tell that to God on Judgement Day. I pray for your soul my brother. But, if you choose to continue your current path, unfortunatly, your outlook is bleak. But God has given us the free gift of salvation. If you choose to accept his gift, it'll be the best decsion you ever make. And you can reign in heaven forever with Him. John 12:44-46 tells us; Jesus cried and said, " He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness."

[el nopal]

Your message saved me. Thank you, I will now enter the kingdom of light and be one of many - whose souls were not wasted.

Do they have pudding?

[mahayana]

Thanks for the prayer, Travis. For you, I wish enlightenment and peace.

Also, pudding for el Nopal.

[el nopal]

Heaven must have chocolate pudding and green jello, or I won't go past the gates.
I will not be a neophyte unless there is chocolate pudding and green jello.

[mahayana]

Let me post this again (correcting the misspelled word):
-----
Honestly, God being appeased by a human sacrifice, or that of his Son if you will, makes no sense to me. Jewish alters dripping with blood don't make sense to me either. Different culture, different assumptions. And the carrot and stick of heaven and hell seems a poor basis for moral choices.

You may find this excerpt from Tartt's "The Secret History," 1992, to be of interest. I give credit to the Roman Empire (following the conversion of Constantine's wife) for spreading the version of Christ's message which you believe in.

"The Roman genius, and perhaps the Roman flaw...was an obsession with order. One sees it in their architecture, their literature, their laws- this fierce denial of darkness, unreason, chaos. Easy to see why the Romans, usually so tolerant of foreign religions, persecuted the Christians mercilessly- how absurd to think a common criminal had risen from the dead, how appalling that his followers celebrated him by drinking his blood. The illogic of it frightened them and they did everything they could to crush it. In fact, I think the reason they took such drastic steps was because they were not only frightened but also terribly attracted to it. Pragmatists are often strangely superstitious. For all their logic, who lived in more abject terror of the supernatural than the Romans?"

It took nearly 300 years for the mystery religion to be embraced by the Empire, the rest, as they say, is history.

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My point was that the emphasis on hell and punishment, combined with Roman guilt for persecuting Christians, may be the reason Christianity became a world religion.

The reason I love Jesus, honor his teachings, and seek to emulate him, is not for the promise of otherworldly reward or punishment, eternal life, or messianic mythology. It's because he was boddhisattva (enlightened one) and asked us to live a certain way. Each one must decide what makes sense to them, which beliefs lead to the greater good. Peavine is reborn today and shares his joy. I hope he takes more steps to become christlike.

[::Major_Baker::]

God offers everlasting life. Your body will die, God's offering you the chance to not let your sould die. The fate of those who refuse Jesus is described here:
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"(Revelation 20:10-15).
Wow is that your interpretation of the bible? Oh no wait, it IS the bible.
Look quoting this stuff doesn't help convey a point to me, it just obscures. Part of the reason I feel the way I do is BECAUSE of the bible and how people interpret it. Taking this stuff literally severely limits your ability to understand life, in my opinion. Travis, do you believe the world was created in seven days, and that Adam made eve from a piece of his rib?