America true Christians or not?

[Fei Hu]

It is amazing as you look around you, the amount of people who feverently claim to be Christians in the US. I have a cable system that gives me some 45 channels. 6 are religion 24/7, 14 more have more than two hours of religious programming per day and another 10 or 12 present church services on Sundays. Also I notice how we use scripture (often mis quoted and malinterpreted) to justify anything from out political positions to why we eat Special K. It seems to point to a very spiritual awakening and a nation of religiously Christian people.

The paradox occurs when you see that 65%`+ of the people do not know any more than 5 of the 10 commandments. 60% believe that the phrase "God helps those who help themselves." comes directly from the Bible. 50%+ cannot name the 4 Gospels and less than 20% know what the Beatitudes are.

Added to this is that 27% of Christians end their marraiges in divorce while only 21% of non-Christians divorce. While there seems to be a church (storefront or other wise) every few blocks the US also has the highest number of people in prison in the democratic-industrial world. Presumably for breaking the Christian "God's laws".

The source for the % was CNBC today so I can't give you a link. Any comments on out somewhat seemingly "pagan" approach to Christianity.

[xexon]

Modern religion is lost in it's own fog. It has no boundries in regards to this country or that. If you're blind, you cannot see the border.



x

[AgentM]

Bah! Don't get me started on the many many contradictions of Christianity and the other religions.

[cpwill]

:shock: christians aren't perfect!??!! :eek: Say It Ain't So! :lol:;)

[DRMIZER]

It is amazing as you look around you, the amount of people who feverently claim to be Christians in the US. I have a cable system that gives me some 45 channels. 6 are religion 24/7, 14 more have more than two hours of religious programming per day and another 10 or 12 present church services on Sundays. Also I notice how we use scripture (often mis quoted and malinterpreted) to justify anything from out political positions to why we eat Special K. It seems to point to a very spiritual awakening and a nation of religiously Christian people.

The paradox occurs when you see that 65%`+ of the people do not know any more than 5 of the 10 commandments. 60% believe that the phrase "God helps those who help themselves." comes directly from the Bible. 50%+ cannot name the 4 Gospels and less than 20% know what the Beatitudes are.

Added to this is that 27% of Christians end their marraiges in divorce while only 21% of non-Christians divorce. While there seems to be a church (storefront or other wise) every few blocks the US also has the highest number of people in prison in the democratic-industrial world. Presumably for breaking the Christian "God's laws".

The source for the % was CNBC today so I can't give you a link. Any comments on out somewhat seemingly "pagan" approach to Christianity.Great post. And here's another one; "The truth shall set you free."

It's apparent there must be more Christian stations needed to get the point across or Christians really do NOT believe everything they parrot.

I think the divorce percentage is way off. . . . . . . .6 in 10 marriages in this country land on the rocks. . . .90% of the US population claims to be faith-based believers. You do the math!! Looks like the more exposure we have to religion, the less it means. . . . .(psychological truth!)

[Madrigalian]

Forgive my impertinance, but are there more true Christians in Spain?

I only ask because I've met more than a few Spaniards who professed to be Christians that I would have to say, left much to be desired in actually living as such.

[Rivet]

The only true Christians are carpenters. :D

[DRMIZER]

Forgive my impertinance, but are there more true Christians in Spain?

I only ask because I've met more than a few Spaniards who professed to be Christians that I would have to say, left much to be desired in actually living as such.I was under the impression that much of Spain is Catholic??? If so, guess that would make them Christians!!

[Churlant]

I think what this comes down to is the "Americanization" of Christianity in general... which is to say we have integrated our own selective brands of arrogance and excess into what it means to be a Christian. Right or wrong it isn't for us to say. What we CAN say, however, is that the particular habit of Americans to exhibit our patented "in your face!" slogan within our religious expressions isn't helpful to others who might consider religion a more personal and subtle endeavor.

-JC

[Madrigalian]

I was under the impression that much of Spain is Catholic??? If so, guess that would make them Christians!!


um... nevermind. :banghead:

[mataj]

The only true Coca Cola in this world is a potion coming from the Coca Cola company. It doesn't matter what's inside; it doesn't matter whether it's brown, pink or green; recipe had changed over the years. But, whatever they put in that bottles, is by definition Coca Cola. It's the trademark that matters.

Similarily, the only true Christianity is produced by the Roman Catholic Church international. It doesn't matter, whether it's according to Bible or not; it doesn't matter whether they profess Immaculate Conception, or alien infestation; it doesn't matter whether they worhip Jesus, Mary, or Cthulhu; Catholic teaching had changed over the centuries. But, whatever they preach, is by definition the true Christianity. It's the trademark that matters.

[Churlant]

The only true Coca Cola in this world is a potion coming from the Coca Cola company. It doesn't matter what's inside; it doesn't matter whether it's brown, pink or green; recipe had changed seldomly over the years. But, whatever they put in that bottles, is by definition Coca Cola. It's the trademark that matters.

Similarily, the only true Christianity is produced by the Roman Catholic Church international. It doesn't matter, whether it's according to Bible or not; it doesn't matter whether they profess Immaculate Conception, or alien infestation; it doesn't matter whether they worhip Jesus, Mary, or Cthulhu; Catholic teaching had changed over the centuries. But, whatever they preach, is by definition the true Christianity. It's the trademark that matters.

Interesting... Not sure I agree... but definitely a fascinating idea... hmm..

Might it be possible to point out that the Bible has no copyright for a reason? Just because the Catholic Church thinks they have a "trademark" on Christianity, does that make it so?

-JC

[mataj]

Might it be possible to point out that the Bible has no copyright for a reason? Just because the Catholic Church thinks they have a "trademark" on Christianity, does that make it so?

-JCRCC has de facto trademark on Christianity. They won the fear of religion and respect for the Bible with fire and sword in the past. Without that, Bible would be just another funny old book.

[Churlant]

RCC has de facto trademark on Christianity. They won the fear of religion and respect for the Bible with fire and sword in the past. Without that, Bible would be just another funny old book.

Some of us think it's a funny book regardless :p

Be that as it may... violence and fear don't earn a damn thing. "de facto" is just as good as nothing in this case. The RCC can assume all they like... highly religious types like to assume things anyway, it's kind of a hobby... but claiming they get to dictate what "Christianity" is and how it is to be applied is as ridiculous as when any other group tries to do so.

-JC

[Chidi]

RCC has de facto trademark on Christianity. They won the fear of religion and respect for the Bible with fire and sword in the past. Without that, Bible would be just another funny old book.

Firstly why does it matter if America is truely christian or not?
Secondly the Bible is just another funny book with bits taken from past religions all mixed together to keep the reader on the edge of their
seat ;)

[mataj]

Some of us think it's a funny book regardless :p Thinking it's a funny book is one thing. Saying it in a face of a moron with a Bible in one hand, and gun (or sword) in the other, is entirely different matter. And that's not funny.

Be that as it may... violence and fear don't earn a damn thing.They do- if used wisely.

"de facto" is just as good as nothing in this case. The RCC can assume all they like... RCC's assumptions carry come weight.

RCC is the major player in the religious industry. Like Microsoft's in software industry, it dictates things. Rules in software industry are a bit different, but analogy is still valid, I guess. Let me examine the major differences in detail:
Microsoft power is based on copyright law. In religiuos industry, there's no copyright law at all. RCC is blatantly taking advantage of this. It constantly copies religious technologies from others. Confession and st.Mary's graphical design from babylonians, cult of stMary from Kelts, Christmas from pagans. Recenty adopted technologies are meditation, and US style revival. Next thing to plagiate will probably be Hubbard's (http://www.lronhubbard.org/) religious technology, if it continues to prove itself as effective as it currently does.
The greatest obstacle to Microsoft's absolute dominance is that pesky anti-monopoly legislation. Again, there's nothing like this in the religious industry. Monopoly is something, that every player openly declares as his right.As industry leader, Microsoft is in the position to set it's "de facto industry proprietary standards". Similarily RCC holds it's de facto trademark, firmly supported not by legislation of any particular country, but it's long standing tradition, political connections, financial power, and numerous membership.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
(Pope Paul IV)

[Fei Hu]

Forgive my impertinance, but are there more true Christians in Spain?

I only ask because I've met more than a few Spaniards who professed to be Christians that I would have to say, left much to be desired in actually living as such.

That's a whole other thread that maybe we should put under EU matters. Perhaps I will but at this point I am not interested in the comparison but more in the situation set forth by CNBC which proviked this thread. All of Spain has been Catholic for the past 500 years and at least Half of the Nation for 2000. This sets all kinds of different standars, traditions etc. THe government since Franco has a hands off policy. It's just too different. I'll be glad to debate this on the EU section along with Italy, Portugañ etc. but in that context.

[Redratio1]

:shock: christians aren't perfect!??!! :eek: Say It Ain't So! :lol:;)

And yet many claim to more righteous than non-Christians.

[Simba]

And yet many claim to more righteous than non-Christians.

We're talking about people here. The only difference is, some are trying, and some are not.

I try everyday, and some things I win at, others I don't. Long as I am not out doing it in His name, blowing up airplanes, walking onto buses with bombs on to take out kids, or whacking women caught without a veil, I figure I am not doing all too bad.

[Redratio1]

We're talking about people here. The only difference is, some are trying, and some are not.

I try everyday, and some things I win at, others I don't. Long as I am not out doing it in His name, blowing up airplanes, walking onto buses with bombs on to take out kids, or whacking women caught without a veil, I figure I am not doing all too bad.

Hmm...at least add in one Christian activity of violence; blowing up abortion clinics.

I don't mind Christians, however I hate the CBN hairspray Christians, and the "We are holier than thou" Christians.

[Simba]

Hmm...at least add in one Christian activity of violence; blowing up abortion clinics.

I don't mind Christians, however I hate the CBN hairspray Christians, and the "We are holier than thou" Christians.

It's television, Red, just television.

I don't say who is the true or not. It isn't for me to say. I don't watch tv myself much, but when I do, I will occassionally watch TLC. Their are some not as you describe. Anyway....*shakes hands a bit to clear thoughts*....got to relax and not take some things too seriously, or rather, not perceive some things as a fight or flight stress situation.

Do as I do. Smoke something, then watch. It's rather a pleasant experience.

"Let me be Yo Posona Red Jesus!" From the profile scroll on Jesus, the top player killer and murderer in the World's current number one Online Game, Ultima Online (265,000 players worldwide at any one time.)

[cpwill]

RCC has de facto trademark on Christianity. They won the fear of religion and respect for the Bible with fire and sword in the past. Without that, Bible would be just another funny old book.

:shrug: the bible couldn't be just another funny old book; if for no other reason than it's not that old.

And yet many claim to more righteous than non-Christians.

spiritually speaking, they may have a point; dependent on to what extent they are actually christians. earthly speaking :sorry: it's a no-go.

[Smurf]

"Let me be Yo Posona Red Jesus!" From the profile scroll on Jesus, the top player killer and murderer in the World's current number one Online Game, Ultima Online (265,000 players worldwide at any one time.)
Now THAT, my friend, is hilarious.

[Duo_Maxwell]

isn't this question impossible to answer?

No one knows what a true christian is, and every point made to clarify it is met with opposition. Therefore without any solid acceptance of the term in question, the entire thread is therefore moot.

[Smurf]

A christian is one who believes Jesus christ was the messiah.

There, defined it. Now we just have to specify.

[Duo_Maxwell]

A christian is one who believes Jesus christ was the messiah.

There, defined it. Now we just have to specify.

But who exactly agrees with that? We have people saying other believers aren't true because of 1) Blah and 2) Blah, and we have the same people doing the reverse. Neither side is willing to drop the details and focus on the meaningful issues, which leads back into my initial post.

[Neosythe]

Well let's go to a great source the bible. One my assume that the bible in which the christian religion is founded on might define what a "christian" is. First off no where in the bible is there the word "christian". Christian means little christ it was actually a insult from romans(or some old civ.) to the Followers of Christ. The followers of christ, let's see taht would be christians, so Some one that is following christ in his spiritual walk, and worships him in his life, and lives according to teh testimony of christ(new testimant) would in definition a christian. Now to that first point about refering to the bible, i'm not that great at it but here's some things, It talked about picking up your cross and following god, and beign a desciple of god, and those taht call for the name of God and Jesus Christ, those the ones that will be saved those that know him and have a relationship wiht him, kinda of the definition above. That's my view that's my life. It's the bible those that live by it. Not some wild interpetation or right wing agenda, lamo i go to church so i'm a christian crap. But what it is in reality. And to those that have ever been told they are lesser than christians or put down for theirs sins by one, i apoligize. Chrisitians can be arrogant at times, but truely we all should love every one of you out there. I don't think of non christians out there as lessers cuzz you're not. You all have the equal chance to heaven. I can't look down on you because i to had sin and still struggle with it, though it doesn't hold me. I pray for you and your will be your life, that's all i can say, i live my way and my belief hope you will join it, but i can't make you and you aren't less than me for it.

[cpwill]

A christian is one who believes Jesus christ was the messiah.

There, defined it. Now we just have to specify.

not quite; even satan believes Jesus is the messiah; the difference lies in accepting Jesus' salvation.

[Craig]

But who exactly agrees with that? We have people saying other believers aren't true because of 1) Blah and 2) Blah, and we have the same people doing the reverse. Neither side is willing to drop the details and focus on the meaningful issues, which leads back into my initial post.

Moreover, there are certain groups, typically considered cults, that believe the head of their spiritual organization is Jesus reincarnated, and therefore he is the messiah. Obviously, unless there's some very good evidence to suggest that this person is Jesus reincarnated, these particular beliefs are not consistent with the rest of Christianity. Technically then, these people cannot be said to believe that Christ is the messiah, because in reality they believe that another person who is not Christ is the messiah.

[historyteach]

"The only true Christians are carpenters"
Funny, I thought they were fishermen! :)
Oh, and the RCC is the only true "Christianity" because they were the first. And they did win by the sword. The others are ALL a result of the Reformation following the total and absolute corruption of said church. The Reformation, "reformed" the original...which had INDEED changed over the years. And I think any objective look at its history would make that fact patently clear, (no pun intended.)
Just some thoughts thrown out here...
Shalom!

[Craig]

"The only true Christians are carpenters"
Funny, I thought they were fishermen! :)
Oh, and the RCC is the only true "Christianity" because they were the first. And they did win by the sword. The others are ALL a result of the Reformation following the total and absolute corruption of said church. The Reformation, "reformed" the original...which had INDEED changed over the years. And I think any objective look at its history would make that fact patently clear, (no pun intended.)
Just some thoughts thrown out here...
Shalom!

What about Orthodox Christianity? While they are not technically "first", the Roman Catholic Church did not technically exist at the time either. It was only after the divide between these two groups that a distinction was really made to differentiate between the two, if I am not mistaken.

[mahayana]

There is quite a distinction between following Jesus' example and "being a Christian."

If we judge America by the beatitudes (from the Sermon on the Mount, Luke 20-37), she only scores a few points. How about this one-

A rich young country came to Jesus, and asked what it would take to be saved. Jesus replied, "Sell what you have and give it to the poor, and you will have treasures in heaven; and come, follow me." And the young country went away, sorrowful, because it possessed great wealth. And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God."

[DRMIZER]

There is quite a distinction between following Jesus' example and "being a Christian."

If we judge America by the beatitudes (from the Sermon on the Mount, Luke 20-37), she only scores a few points. How about this one-

A rich young country came to Jesus, and asked what it would take to be saved. Jesus replied, "Sell what you have and give it to the poor, and you will have treasures in heaven; and come, follow me." And the young country went away, sorrowful, because it possessed great wealth. And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God."Great. Last fall I adopted a saying I use quite often. . ."So much money, so little time."