Enough is Enough

[Seth928]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/10/prison.journalist.ap/index.html

At this point its just a waste of taxpayer money and needs to stop.

[historyteach]

Seth;
What is the purpose of prison?
Is it to punish?
Or is it to rehabilitate?
Our society has vacillated on this subject since it's inception.
But, this right here:

"Rideau was a near-illiterate, 19-year-old janitor when he held up the bank in 1961.... Rideau became a self-educated writer and helped transform The Angolite into a nationally acclaimed magazine dealing with the criminal justice system. He also co-directed "The Farm," a prison documentary that was nominated for an Oscar in 1999, and wrote and narrated an award-winning National Public Radio documentary."

sure sounds like rehabilitation. If so, then that 19 year old kid doesn't exist anymore. And if THAT is the case...if he is no longer a danger to society, and he has served far longer than the average murderer has....what's the sense of keeping this person locked up?
What purpose is being served?
Just something to chew on here....
L'Chaim!

[Seth928]

Prison is both to rehabilitate and punish. He may be rehabilitated but he has not served out his punishment and this is what these trials are about. This guy stabbed a woman as she pleaded for her life and he is trying to get off on manslaughter? We are all responsible for our own actions and this man is trying to weasel out of his resposibility to accept the consequences of his actions.

That isn't what this is about though. They continue to go back and retry the original crime over and over to no avail. The law is the law and if he cares more about rehabilitation than punishment he ought to move to have laws put into place regarding rehabilitation. In the end this is all a big waste of taxpayer money.

[jamesrage]

but he has not served out his punishment and this is what these trials are about.

You are trying debate that with a liberal.:lol: Most Liberals do not beleave in punishment for criminals.

[JD3]

You are trying debate that with a liberal.:lol: Most Liberals do not beleave in punishment for criminals.

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

Same tired old intellectually dishonest response. Please try again. :mad:

[spork]

The average murder sentence is about 25 years. This guy has been in prison for over 40 years. He was sentenced in 1961, Seth - are you willing to acknowledge that his race may be a factor in his sentence? Illiterate black men don't usually get first class legal representation - and the world was a very different place in 1961.

If all we believe in is punishment - than we can expect bigger, meaner criminals to emerge from the prisons they've been warehoused in. Bigger, meaner, and angrier, because of the way prisoners are treated. Can you see how this might create a circular sort of problem?

The thing is - those people in prison are someone's neighbors, family, or friend - and sooner or later they will be coming back to their community. We owe it to society at large to at least attempt some rehabilitation, so that they have a second chance when they get out.

As for this man - he's spent over 40 years in prison. If that's not enough punishment, than please tell me what is?

[patrickt]

Remember Jack Henry Abbott? He was the writer who Norman Mailer lobbied to get out of prison. He could write so obviously he didn't belong in prison. He was moved to a half-way house in New York and was there all of six weeks when he stabbed and killed a young waiter.

Being able to write has nothing to do with rehabilitation.

As I understood the very brief article, this man kidnapped three people during a bank robbery, shot two, who lived, and stabbed a third as she begged for her life.

In my opinion, he belongs in prison as punishment for what he did. In any case, the article said nothing about him being rehabilitated.

In my opinion, people do rehabilitate themselves. The government rehabilitates no one. Prisons are for punishment and they're also to keep people from taking matters into their own hands.

[JD3]

Remember Jack Henry Abbott? He was the writer who Norman Mailer lobbied to get out of prison. He could write so obviously he didn't belong in prison. He was moved to a half-way house in New York and was there all of six weeks when he stabbed and killed a young waiter.

Being able to write has nothing to do with rehabilitation.

As I understood the very brief article, this man kidnapped three people during a bank robbery, shot two, who lived, and stabbed a third as she begged for her life.

In my opinion, he belongs in prison as punishment for what he did. In any case, the article said nothing about him being rehabilitated.

In my opinion, people do rehabilitate themselves. The government rehabilitates no one. Prisons are for punishment and they're also to keep people from taking matters into their own hands.


I am not sure about the significance of the Mailer comment, but I am not sure what the purpose of prison is. I would submit that as a nation we are quite confused on the purpose of prison and thus lack direct and get a jumbled mess.

While I understadn, accept and demand consequences for actions, make no mistake about that, prison needs to focus overall on rehabilitiation. Unless we are talking about the most severe crimes, those in which the person getting out isn't a real option, most will exit prison one day. Punishment simply won't prepare them for a successful return to society. If we want less crime and to pay less money for care inmates and building prisons, we have to think about how to best change lives into productive citizens.

This isn't flower power or hippie talk; instead, this is practical and pragmatic. Once we know they will reenter the community, it helps all of us to make sure they can be productive and contirbute as opposed to continuing the same path that brough them there.

[eugene40]

We all know that prisons are there to make criminals better at being criminals.. Or deversifying their crimes... go in for drug use, come out with a PHD in breaking and entering, Go in for B&E come out with the knowledge of how to get out of cuffs,, or avoid being cuffed. I talk with guys that have been on the inside everyday... They have no problem with it, they can get anything that they can get outside on the inisde,, drugs, alcohol, anything. And they are someone on the inside (if they are not someones sweetboy) they get out and they are just a ex con on parole.... I mean really.. I know a couple that thoroughly enjoy prison....

And it has been said on here that the gentleman released didn't have adequet representation because of his status and race...... it isn't just race my friend..... poor white people get crappy public defenders as well...... So if you want to put a stigma on it. It is status, not race that gets their defense...

[The_Penguin]

You are trying debate that with a liberal.:lol: Most Liberals do not beleave in punishment for criminals.
The stuff that you post simply gets more and more ridiculous. Consider this post as taking it to a higher level... of low-levelness.

[patrickt]

JD3, in my opinion, we need a three-tier system. The majority of people who go to prison don't need to be there. They should be dealt with in the community where the chances for rehabilitation are much greater.

For more serious crimes, or repeat offenders, a lock-down prison is appropriate but they should still have the opportunity to further their education or learn a trade if they wish.

For a few offenders, those that aren't even safe for other prisoners to be around, we need cages.

[JD3]

JD3, in my opinion, we need a three-tier system. The majority of people who go to prison don't need to be there. They should be dealt with in the community where the chances for rehabilitation are much greater.

For more serious crimes, or repeat offenders, a lock-down prison is appropriate but they should still have the opportunity to further their education or learn a trade if they wish.

For a few offenders, those that aren't even safe for other prisoners to be around, we need cages.

Sounds fairly reasonable to me. ;)

[jamesrage]

The stuff that you post simply gets more and more ridiculous. Consider this post as taking it to a higher level... of low-levelness.

From most liberal post that I see in this website, liberals only think prison is for reforming individuals and not for punishemnt of individuals who break the law.
Almost everytime I see a story involving a mother savagely murdering her children.It is always poor mother this poor mother that or Oh she is insane,but never or hardly comment on the fact she savagely murdered her children and should be punished for that.It is always oh she needs help.I see similar crap like that on capital punishment thread topics.Or the Burgler is shot by homeowner thread topics.

[JD3]

From most liberal post that I see in this website, liberals only think prison is for reforming individuals and not for punishemnt of individuals who break the law.
Almost everytime I see a story involving a mother savagely murdering her children.It is always poor mother this poor mother that or Oh she is insane,but never or hardly comment on the fact she savagely murdered her children and should be punished for that.It is always oh she needs help.I see similar crap like that on capital punishment thread topics.Or the Burgler is shot by homeowner thread topics.

Yates had a documented mental illness on record before she acted. Her husband knew and used his influence to remove her from treatment. In doing so, assured that the events would unfold as tragically as they did. That is a much different situation than most murders. Being able to see that is an important aspect of justice.

BTW, particularly for lesser crimes, rehabilitation is a valid goal. Since those convicted are most likely to be released and in our neighborhoods again, we should consider what might change the behavior and not educate them in crime.
;)

[patrickt]

JD3- I have also dealt with people who thrive in the structured environment of a prison. We had an old man in town who had served 26 years for bank robbery. One day I saw him walking down the street with two pistols sticking out of his overalls. I stopped him and asked him what he thought he was doing. He was on parole and wasn't allowed to have guns. After some blustering we went to have coffee and he'd learned he had terminal cancer. He said he wanted to go "home" to die. We talked for an hour and the next day we met with his parole officer and made arrangements to revoke his parole. He died four months after returning to prison.

The man who's sentence started this thread has been found guilty of manslaughter now and is eligible to be released on time served. I sincerely hope we don't know how he does because we'll only know if it goes badly.

[JD3]

JD3- I have also dealt with people who thrive in the structured environment of a prison. We had an old man in town who had served 26 years for bank robbery. One day I saw him walking down the street with two pistols sticking out of his overalls. I stopped him and asked him what he thought he was doing. He was on parole and wasn't allowed to have guns. After some blustering we went to have coffee and he'd learned he had terminal cancer. He said he wanted to go "home" to die. We talked for an hour and the next day we met with his parole officer and made arrangements to revoke his parole. He died four months after returning to prison.

The man who's sentence started this thread has been found guilty of manslaughter now and is eligible to be released on time served. I sincerely hope we don't know how he does because we'll only know if it goes badly.

Yes, it can become a way of life and home to many. Mores to pity. And you are right, we will only know if it goes badly. That is the nature of life.
:(

[jamesrage]

Since those convicted are most likely to be released and in our neighborhoods again, we should consider what might change the behavior and not educate them in crime.

I known people like this and they do not give a ****.Beside prison is for punishment not for wasting my tax dollars by giving them an education that most people on the outside have to work for.

[JD3]

I known people like this and they do not give a ****.Beside prison is for punishment not for wasting my tax dollars by giving them an education that most people on the outside have to work for.

You won't mind will you if I disagree and do so without the ******?

[dittohead not!]

JD3, in my opinion, we need a three-tier system. The majority of people who go to prison don't need to be there. They should be dealt with in the community where the chances for rehabilitation are much greater.

Right. That would mostly be people whose only crime is drug addiction, or those who thought they could get something for nothing through non violent means. Not to say that they shouldn't be held accountable, just that prison is a very expensive way to do so.

For more serious crimes, or repeat offenders, a lock-down prison is appropriate but they should still have the opportunity to further their education or learn a trade if they wish.

Right again. This would include the subject of the article that started this thread. Keep him in lock down where he deserves to be and spare the rest of us the risk of having him around.

For a few offenders, those that aren't even safe for other prisoners to be around, we need cages.

Yes, there are a few who need to be in cages also.

As for retrying the same crime over and over, that is beyond a doubt a waste of time and money. He committed a brutal murder as part of commission of other felonies? One conviction should be enough to last a lifetime.

[jamesrage]

You won't mind will you if I disagree and do so without the ******?

You are entitled to that opinion.

[spork]

I known people like this and they do not give a ****.Beside prison is for punishment not for wasting my tax dollars by giving them an education that most people on the outside have to work for.

Prison is a HUGE part of your tax dollars and if you want them to be spent keeping people endlessly warehoused, I suspect you don't know anything about the costs involved.

Do you have any thoughts on why it is that we now have the biggest prison population in the world, james?

[jamesrage]

Prison is a HUGE part of your tax dollars and if you want them to be spent keeping people endlessly warehoused, I suspect you don't know anything about the costs involved.

Lets see $35 to $50 a day per inmate or more depending on the state.The basic cost include housing,guards,medical and food.Additional cost include education, internet, cable, library,recreation.

Do you have any thoughts on why it is that we now have the biggest prison population in the world, james?

I have a few thoughts on that.Ten years to execute someone on deathrow in some states,we are soft on crime that sends a message to criminals we don't care what they do.Prisons today are like a Sanfranciscan university on the rough side of town.We are too soft on crime.It show by the huge number of inmates we have.If prison was something to fear other than big bubba then maybe people will less likely to involve themselves in crimnal activities.
Basicly the only message we are sending to potential crimanls is that if you break the law we will take of you,you can get an education,you can watch tv,you can even have cable tv,you even have a library to read,in some prisons you can play video games,if you are a single mother convicted of a non-violent offense you can live in a seperate facility with your children who are under six years of age.Oh yeah this sounds like a deturent to crime.It sounds like a message that crime pays.

[Seth928]

You are trying debate that with a liberal.:lol: Most Liberals do not beleave in punishment for criminals.

Hey, bite me I'm a liberal.

[Soren]

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

Same tired old intellectually dishonest response. Please try again. :mad:
Watch out, the emoticons make it look errily like a VoR post!!!! :eek:
The stuff that you post simply gets more and more ridiculous. Consider this post as taking it to a higher level... of low-levelness.Ouch!

I agree with most here that prisons should help to rehabilitate people. It is a waste of human talent to let someone languish when they could be a productive citizen. I support education for inmates in skills which are useful to our society.

As for the specific case mentioned, I know too little about it to comment on it intelligently.

[spork]

jamesrageBasicly the only message we are sending to potential crimanls is that if you break the law we will take of you,you can get an education,you can watch tv,you can even have cable tv,you even have a library to read,in some prisons you can play video games,if you are a single mother convicted of a non-violent offense you can live in a seperate facility with your children who are under six years of age.Oh yeah this sounds like a deturent to crime.It sounds like a message that crime pays.

So you think it would be better for single mothers to be kept from their children? What about the kids - what do you think would be good for them?

It sounds to me as if you got your idea of what prison is like from some made for tv movie (or made by Rush broadcast) - but prison reality is very very different.

You're only concerned with punishment, james. Have you ever trained a dog? What do you get when all you do is kick one?

In my state at least 80% of the prison population has a substance abuse problem. How is punishing them going to help that?

Have you given any thought to WHY there is so much crime, james? Given any thought to who is in prison? How many rich white guys are in prison?
And I take it that prison rape is acceptable in your view.

Do you consider yourself a compassionate conservative?

[JD3]

Watch out, the emoticons make it look errily like a VoR post!!!! :eek:
Ouch!


:sorry: We all have our moments. And the whole lumping stuff does get old. But, you scared me striaght. ;)

[dittohead not!]

I think this says it all:

Definition: Data for 2003. Number of prisoners held per 100,000 population.

1. United States 715 per 100,000 people
2. Russia 584 per 100,000 people
3. Belarus 554 per 100,000 people
4. Palau 523 per 100,000 people
5. Belize 459 per 100,000 people
6. Suriname 437 per 100,000 people
7. Dominica 420 per 100,000 people
8. Ukraine 416 per 100,000 people
9. Bahamas, The 410 per 100,000 people
10. South Africa 402 per 100,000 people
11. Kyrgyzstan 390 per 100,000 people
12. Singapore 388 per 100,000 people
13. Kazakhstan 386 per 100,000 people


Want to check it out, or see the rest? Here's where I found it:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap&int=-1

We're #1! We're #1!!! Hey, wait a minute, that isn't a good thing!!
We need to ask ourselves why we're #1 in the number of prisoners per capita. Soft on crime? Doesn't look like it to me. Greatest country in the world? Potentially, maybe.

[JD3]

I think this says it all:

Definition: Data for 2003. Number of prisoners held per 100,000 population.

1. United States 715 per 100,000 people
2. Russia 584 per 100,000 people
3. Belarus 554 per 100,000 people
4. Palau 523 per 100,000 people
5. Belize 459 per 100,000 people
6. Suriname 437 per 100,000 people
7. Dominica 420 per 100,000 people
8. Ukraine 416 per 100,000 people
9. Bahamas, The 410 per 100,000 people
10. South Africa 402 per 100,000 people
11. Kyrgyzstan 390 per 100,000 people
12. Singapore 388 per 100,000 people
13. Kazakhstan 386 per 100,000 people


Want to check it out, or see the rest? Here's where I found it:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap&int=-1

We're #1! We're #1!!! Hey, wait a minute, that isn't a good thing!!
We need to ask ourselves why we're #1 in the number of prisoners per capita. Soft on crime? Doesn't look like it to me. Greatest country in the world? Potentially, maybe.


It is a fair question to ask why.

[jamesrage]

So you think it would be better for single mothers to be kept from their children? What about the kids - what do you think would be good for them?

If the mother is dumb enough to break the law,what makes you think she would be a fit mother?Anything would be better than for children living with a screw up mother who obviously only gives a **** about herself.Because if she actually cared for her children she would would not be breaking the law in the first place.What about victim's rights?Are you going to say screw you to that victim so a piece of **** mother can live in a nice dorm like facility with her children under six years of age?



It sounds to me as if you got your idea of what prison is like from some made for tv movie (or made by Rush broadcast) - but prison reality is very very different.



Actually I have been inside a few prisons when I was younger for a school field trip.Some of that other information was from a liberal new media.




You're only concerned with punishment, james. Have you ever trained a dog? What do you get when all you do is kick one?

There are other ways to punish a dog besides kicking it.



In my state at least 80% of the prison population has a substance abuse problem. How is punishing them going to help that?

If you have a very liberal state then nothing.Because prison system there is exactly like what I have stated in a previous post.A prsion system run by liberals is not punishment.It is a Sanfransiscan University on the rough side of town.

Have you given any thought to WHY there is so much crime, james? Given any thought to who is in prison? How many rich white guys are in prison?

I have an idea to why there is so much crime.Because liberals make every excuse in the book as to why this individual commited the crime in the place.
Those excuses are either they grew up in a bad enviroment, crazy, uneducated, poor, or just absolutly stupid.
So instead of punishing the scumbag you make these stupid programs to help him or her back on their feet and then six month after getting out they are right back in prison, most likely for the same ****.The only thing these programs do is waste tax dollars on individuals who do not deserve ****.Our current judicial system is basic not sending a message to obey the law.Those television commercials about how crime does not pay is a crock of ****,because they are false.
Maybe there are less rich guys in prisons because perhaps statisticly they are smarter than the average joe.The only ones who are in prison are dumbasses who for some reason thought they were smarter than everyone else..

[Unrepentant]

Jamesrage, if prison is the utopian resort you characterize it as, why aren't you clamoring to get in? "I gotta get me some of that" is hardly the sentiment heard from you, me or anyone, whether they have been in before or not.

The people who advocate the loudest for cable tv, recreational facilities, educational opportunities, etc. are the wardens and the prison workers themselves. These are people unlikely to be sporting John Kerry stickers on the bumpers of their cars. They want those things because it is an outlet and a mechanism for control of a population in a dangerous situation. If the money wasn't spent on that it would be spent on other things, like more guards, more steel, more weapons and more National Guard troops to quell more riots. At least there's a chance for some benefit to accrue from the other things you see as luxuries.

BTW, everybody in this country can get an education at taxpayer expense. Some even learn how to spell.

[spork]

If the mother is dumb enough to break the law,what makes you think she would be a fit mother?Anything would be better than for children living with a screw up mother who obviously only gives a **** about herself.Because if she actually cared for her children she would would not be breaking the law in the first place.What about victim's rights?Are you going to say screw you to that victim so a piece of **** mother can live in a nice dorm like facility with her children under six years of age?

Well, at least she didn't have an abortion - right??
These are women who have committed non-violent crimes. Do you think, that maybe it's possible that sending the kids to a foster home might possibly screw 'em up worse and thereby continue to feed the prison industrial complex?


Actually I have been inside a few prisons when I was younger for a school field trip.Some of that other information was from a liberal new media.

So what you're saying is that you haven't made a study of the US prison system, by any means.


There are other ways to punish a dog besides kicking it.

Yes, you could attach electrodes to it's genitals and hook it up to a battery, I suppose.


If you have a very liberal state then nothing.Because prison system there is exactly like what I have stated in a previous post.A prsion system run by liberals is not punishment.It is a Sanfransiscan University on the rough side of town.

You say this, and offer no proof. I don't live in a liberal state, not by any means. I do live in a state where substance abuse is a terrible problem, and our treatment program seems to be prison.



I have an idea to why there is so much crime.Because liberals make every excuse in the book as to why this individual commited the crime in the place.
Those excuses are either they grew up in a bad enviroment, crazy, uneducated, poor, or just absolutly stupid.
So instead of punishing the scumbag you make these stupid programs to help him or her back on their feet and then six month after getting out they are right back in prison, most likely for the same ****.The only thing these programs do is waste tax dollars on individuals who do not deserve ****.Our current judicial system is basic not sending a message to obey the law.Those television commercials about how crime does not pay is a crock of ****,because they are false.
Maybe there are less rich guys in prisons because perhaps statisticly they are smarter than the average joe.The only ones who are in prison are dumbasses who for some reason thought they were smarter than everyone else..

Nice knee jerk rhetoric, jamesrage. Except that your buds the conservatives came up with all the laws that aren't working.

You don't believe in rehabilitation - so why bother with jail? Just kill them. What's the big deal - they're a waste anyhow.

There are fewer rich guys in jail because they have wealth, power, and connections. Do I really need to be explained to you? :rolleyes: The rich guys have good lawyers. Ken Lay is a friend of GW Bush - he'll NEVER do time for robbing people blind at ENRON. I hope you don't ever turn to crime. Something tells me you won't be on the winning side.

[jamesrage]

You don't believe in rehabilitation - so why bother with jail?


Because jail is supposed to be solely for punishment,nothing else.


Well, at least she didn't have an abortion - right??
These are women who have committed non-violent crimes. Do you think, that maybe it's possible that sending the kids to a foster home might possibly screw 'em up worse and thereby continue to feed the prison industrial complex?


So are you saying it is better to let children live with criminal scum?Like these scum could somehow be a good influence on these kids?

So what you're saying is that you haven't made a study of the US prison system, by any means.

Nope I never claimed to have made a study,just an observation.



There are fewer rich guys in jail because they have wealth, power, and connections. Do I really need to be explained to you? The rich guys have good lawyers. Ken Lay is a friend of GW Bush - he'll NEVER do time for robbing people blind at ENRON. I hope you don't ever turn to crime. Something tells me you won't be on the winning side.

Thats a load of liberal bull ****.Some rich guys do end up in jail.Too bad the jail these rich guys do go to is like club med.Of course I am sure the crime loving loving liberals set that up somehow,with the way they they try to rationalize criminal behavior and try to make prison as close to living on the outside world as possible.

[JoeR]

Funny, I never heard from anyone that prison's sole purpose was punishment

[spork]

Your right wing knee jerk rhetoric is in full bloom. The women you are now referring to as criminal scum are in jail for non-violent crimes - probably things like shoplifting or possession of marijuana. Not the kind of people most of us would label "criminal scum."

However, since everyone who goes to jail is criminal scum, why not just kill them? Why not initiate the death penalty for all crimes? Line 'em up and shoot 'em.

[Soren]

Because jail is supposed to be solely for punishment,nothing else.Nonsense. I can think of at least three other social purposes for jails. Everyone add to this list if you think that I missed something.
They are also here to reduce the number of crimes commited against a society (obviously you're not out robbing banks if you're in a jail cell).
They function as a deterent to crime, by limiting inmates' personal freedoms when they are convicted.
They also provide time for a possible rehabilition, though it must be conceded that all a prison can do is to establish conditions which make this rehabilitation more probable. Rehabilitation can not be forced upon those who don't want it.

[jamesrage]

# They are also here to reduce the number of crimes commited against a society (obviously you're not out robbing banks if you're in a jail cell).

This relates to punishment.



They function as a deterent to crime, by limiting inmates' personal freedoms when they are convicted.

This also relates to punishment and is the reason why whe have prisons is to detere crime.But prisons these days are a joke they do not deter those who feel have nothing to loose but every thing to gain.



They also provide time for a possible rehabilition, though it must be conceded that all a prison can do is to establish conditions which make this rehabilitation more probable. Rehabilitation can not be forced upon those who don't want it.

When you mean "to establish conditions which make rehabilitation more proable" do you really mean give them exactly everything they would have if they were law abiding citizens.Sending someone to prison today is like sending a kid to his room to be punished,when that kid has a tv, computer, videogames and sometimes a phone.It is a joke to punish a kid by sending him to his room for most parents.The prison system is like that.Prison should be hell on earth.It needs to be like that so that prison is the most undesirable place on earth in order to effectively deter anyone from commiting crime.

[spork]

Sending someone to prison today is like sending a kid to his room to be punished,when that kid has a tv, computer, videogames and sometimes a phone.It is a joke to punish a kid by sending him to his room for most parents.The prison system is like that.

This is a complete and utter falsehood. This is your OPINION, james - and I don't see you providing any factual back up for it. If you're going to continue with this line - back it up.

http://www.truthinaction.net/prisonissues/supermax/aisupermaxreport.htm
Prisoners in Wallens Ridge State Prison (WRSP) are routinely abused with electro-shock stun guns, subjected to racial verbal abuse by guards, fired on with painful pellet guns, and placed unnecessarily in five-point restraints, according to new reports received by Amnesty International.

Yep - sounds like they've got a real country club going on in Virginia.

The Virginia authorities have refused to suspend the use of stun weapons, despite concern over the case of Lawrence Frazier, a diabetic prisoner from Connecticut who died on July 4, 2000, five days after he was shocked repeatedly with a stun gun in the WRSP infirmary and lapsed into a coma. Frazier had been taken to the infirmary apparently suffering from hypoglycaemia, and prison officials said the stun gun was used to restrain him after he became "combative" on being examined by a doctor.

Nine days after Frazier¹s death, the VDOC issued a statement announcing that a "medical study" had concluded that use of a stun device played no part in the death. However, it emerged that this "study" (which the department refused to make public) was carried out for the VDOC by one doctor who had no access to the forensic reports and did not examine the body. Nearly 10 months later (late April 2001) the autopsy reports on Lawrence Frazier have still not been made public.

How does killing this guy fit in with the nice comfy prisons you're describing, jamesrage?

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/agitation/prisons/campaigns/ca/ca.camp.LATimes.html

At Corocoran Prison in California, guards set up human cockfights between prisoners - shooting the winners. Just like mommy tucking you in, eh james?

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/14/usdom8583.htm
Beatings, rapes - even murder - yep - jail's a country club. :rolleyes:

[jamesrage]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1216041game1.html

http://www.theescapist.com/advocacy00.htm
Inmate Asks For Gaming Help

In a letter published in a recent issue of Wizard, a prisoner in an Indiana correctional facility asked for assistance in bringing D&D and Magic back to the prison. According to the letter, inmate James Moore claims that the prison "does not allow these games because they are 'satanic' and 'evil.'"

While it is easy to dismiss such issues as unnecessary luxuries for prisoners, it is very dangerous for any level of government to cast a judgment of "satanic" on any type of activity. Even if games like Magic and D&D were tools of the Satanic church, it would be unconstitutional for them to be removed from a prison on that basis. Since these games are just games, and not products of the infernal, it makes this decision even less substantial. The issue here is not whether or not prisoners should be allowed to play role-playing games; it is whether or not we should permit state-owned facilities to call our hobby diabolical.

It remains to be seen whether there is any truth to the author's claim. It is very possible that this is a situation that has become terribly overblown; after all, prisoners and prison guards are hardly the best of friends. But this is not an unusual occurrence by any means. The CAR-PGa has encountered similar cases to this one, in which D&D was banned from prisons for many ridiculous reasons - including concerns that the artwork found in the books could inspire prisoners to get tattoos, and that the nature of the game could encourage the participants to plan a jailbreak.


http://californiaconnected.org/archives/05062004.html

Over ten thousand women are currently imprisoned in California -- two-thirds have children under eighteen. In many cases, when these mothers go to jail, their kids receive a sentence of their own. Some end up in foster care, others with life-long scars that propel them on the same errant path their parents took. But a new California prison program, Family Foundations, is trying to break that cycle by allowing mothers to remain with their children in a family-oriented facility.

prison education (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/07/13/prison_education_programs_cut_rate_of_reoffending/)

http://www.wherestheoutrage.org/outragecontinues.php

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=2698219

prison statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm)

ACLU's pledge to help prisoner's rights (http://www.aclu.org/Prisons/PrisonsMain.cfm)

A whiny liberal's perspective of prison (http://www.prisonactivist.org/control-unit/)

http://students.washington.edu/uwwu/finalproject.htm

http://www.gospeltruthministry.org/marshallgeneral.html

a not so liberal place (http://www.meetingplaceonmarket.com/Jennifer/cw/Stand/Aug2000/Art1.asp)

[HAVOC451]

U.S. Prisons

Prisons remained overcrowded in 2000: twenty-two states and the federal prison system operated at 100 percent or more of their highest capacity. Overcrowding contributed to the growth of private prisons: according to the Department of Justice privately-operated facilities held 5.5 percent of all state prisoners and 2.5 percent of federal prisoners.

Most inmates had scant opportunities for work, training, education, treatment or counseling because of taxpayer resistance to increasing the already astonishing U.S. $41 billion spent annually on corrections and because of the prevailing punitive ideology that applauds harsh prison conditions. Idle inmates with long sentences, little hope of early release (and hence little incentive for good behavior) and jammed into poorly equipped facilities, sometimes became violent: in 1998 (the most recent year for which data was available), fifty-nine inmates were killed by other inmates, and assaults, fights, and rapes left 6,750 inmates and 2,331 correctional staff injured seriously enough to require medical attention. Rivalry and tension between race-based prison gangs lay behind many individual assaults and sometimes escalated into violent riots.

Men in prison were subject to prisoner-on-prisoner sexual abuse, whose effects on the victim's psyche were serious and enduring. Inmate victims reported nightmares, deep depression, shame, loss of self-esteem, self-hatred, and considering or attempting suicide. Victims of rape, in the most extreme cases, were literally the slaves of the perpetrators, being "rented out" for sex, "sold," or even auctioned off to other inmates. Despite the devastating psychological impact of such abuse, few if any preventative measures were taken in most jurisdictions, while perpetrators were rarely punished adequately by prison officials.

<Snip>

More "country clubbing" in prison... (http://www.hrw.org/prisons/united_states.html)

[jamesrage]

Those are one of the things prisoners should be enjoying.Sex is a right of law abiding citizens.The only thing that article states is the lack of supervision and punishment that prisons are supposed to provide.