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DRMIZER
02-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Christian crusaders go to battle over spanking
Tools of discipline horrify some of faithful
Anna Badkhen, Chronicle Staff Writer

Arlington, Mass. -- To raise a child, one needs three invaluable allies: the Bible, the help of an extended family and "biblical-based resources" -- 9-inch-long spanking paddles of blue polyurethane, according to Steve Haymond from Bakersfield, who sells the paddles online for $6.50 apiece.

Twyla Bullock, in Eufaula, Okla., swears by the Rod -- a 22-inch, $5 white nylon whipping stick her husband designed and produced until recently. Named after the biblical "rod of correction," the Rod provides "a faith-based way to discipline children ... and train them as Christians," Bullock explains.

<SNIP>

Corporal punishment has long been an accepted method of child discipline among evangelical and fundamentalist groups, but an increasing number of Christians are raising objections, arguing that advocates of spanking wrongly cite Scripture to justify a practice that should be banned. Lawrence, who peppers her conversation with quotes from the New Testament, says striking children defies the Golden Rule from the Gospel of Matthew: "In everything do to others as you would have them do to you."

<SNIP>

Although the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychological Association strongly oppose the physical punishment of children, the practice remains widespread among both religious and secular Americans.

<SNIP>

"Americans have a strong belief in the parents' right to use it on their children in the privacy of their home as they please," said Ronald Rohner, an expert on corporal punishment at the University of Connecticut. But he said many fundamentalist Christians, in their literal reading of the Bible, regard spanking as a religious as well as parental duty. The Book of Proverbs in the Old Testament, for example, says that "the rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother," and "he who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly."

Christian conservatives often quote such passages from pulpits, on radio and television shows and on the Internet, and provide guidelines for what they call biblical discipline.

The Family Research Council, a Christian advocacy group, warns that physical discipline "is inappropriate before 15 months of age" and suggests that parents spare the rod and slap children with a bare hand instead.

The evangelical leader James Dobson recommends that parents use a "swish or paddle" or other "neutral" object, reserving the hand as "an object of love. "

"Corporal punishment, when used lovingly and properly, is beneficial to a child because it is in harmony with nature itself," Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, which claims a mailing list of 2.5 million believers, wrote on the organization's Web site (www.family.org).

<SNIP>

Bill Maier, a child psychologist and the vice president of Focus on the Family, argued that Christian groups opposing spanking deviate from "the orthodox interpretation" of the Bible, which, he said, lists spanking as "one of many disciplinary methods that are at parents' disposal."

"There is no basis for saying that Scripture says spanking is somehow evil or should not be used by parents," said Maier.

But equally observant Christians, such as Al Crowell, director of the San Francisco-based Christians for Nonviolent Parenting, are becoming increasingly vocal in their opposition to the practice.

"If taken literally, the Old Testament condones having slaves and stoning women who have sex outside of marriage. But if you look at the life of Jesus, it's pretty hard to imagine him hitting children," said Crowell, a father of two who, along with 645 others, has signed Lawrence's online petition to ban the Rod.

In addition to her petition to ban the Rod, Lawrence, who homeschools her children, has so far obtained 300 supporters to sign her online petition calling for a complete ban on corporal punishment in the United States.

"We're a very violent, hitting society, a very child-unfriendly society," said Lawrence, who has adorned the front door of her snow-cocooned Colonial house with stickers that say "Kids Safe Zone."

<SNIP>

-- California and these 26 states have banned corporal punishment in public and private schools: Alaska, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin.

-- It is illegal for a parent, teacher or caretaker to use any form of corporal punishment on a child in 13 countries: Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Croatia, Latvia, Germany, Israel, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine.

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2005%2F02%2F06%2FMNGJ4B6U E11.DTL

::Major_Baker::
02-07-2005, 11:52 AM
"a faith-based way to discipline children ... and train them as Christians,"

But religon is based on free will remember? HAHAHA
How may of you are 'trained well'?

Churlant
02-07-2005, 11:57 AM
Hehehhehee...

Has anyone ever taken a look at the list of META keywords (words a search engine keys off of) on the Focus on the Family website? ;)


Family, Parents, Focus on the Family, Dobson, Dr. Dobson, Dr. James Dobson, James Dobson, marriage, resources, family resources, video, book, tapes, music, movie, movie reviews, family news, radio, kids, children, teens, parents, husbands, wives, doctors, seniors, abortion, divorce, homosexuality, pornography, sex, love, dating, discipline, drugs, abuse, spanking, intimacy, abstinence, home schooling, homeschool, masturbation, dating, depression, gambling, finance, budget, counseling, pray, prayer, employment, jobs, ADD, ADHD, Adventures in Odyssey, AIO, brio, LOTE, Life on the Edge, boundless, clubhouse, breakaway, narnia, heritage builders, renewing the heart, citizen, focus over fifty, Christmas


www.family.org

I love how 'spanking' comes right after 'abuse' and right before 'intimacy'. How Freudian can you get?

hehehehe...


Anyway.. when your God murders people for being too smart or to settle bets, who is surprised to know He advocates spanking? ;)


-JC

Rivet
02-07-2005, 12:00 PM
I'm waiting for the "how DARE anyone tell me how to raise my kids" post.

Churlant
02-07-2005, 12:02 PM
I'm waiting for the "how DARE anyone tell me how to raise my kids" post.

How DARE anyone tell me how to raise my kids! As soon as you buy their food, medicine, clothes, and the roof over their heads - THEN you can have a say. Until that time, stay out of my business.

-JC

Rivet
02-07-2005, 12:36 PM
How DARE anyone tell me how to raise my kids! As soon as you buy their food, medicine, clothes, and the roof over their heads - THEN you can have a say. Until that time, stay out of my business.


Good! You forgot the part of how kids today are all messed up because they weren't spanked enough and it's all the liberals fault for telling us that spanking is bad.

Churlant
02-07-2005, 12:53 PM
Good! You forgot the part of how kids today are all messed up because they weren't spanked enough and it's all the liberals fault for telling us that spanking is bad.

Yeah, the reason our prisons are overrun with thugs is because their parents were obviously way too free with them. These people needed the fear of God and, because their parents let them run wild out of some kind of wussy liberal flower-power philosophy, this is what we've got!

-JC

::Major_Baker::
02-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Yeah, the reason our prisons are overrun with thugs is because their parents were obviously way too free with them. These people needed the fear of God and, because their parents let them run wild out of some kind of wussy liberal flower-power philosophy, this is what we've got!

-JC
You know what data I'd love to see too? How many inmates in the US claim to be 'religious'.........
I'm sure some of the guys in jail still get spanked, but not in the way we are talking about.

The Big Bog
02-07-2005, 02:30 PM
My elementary school principal firmly believed in this "spare the rod, spoil the child" philosophy. He carried around the biggest, ugliest paddle you ever saw back in the '70's and he didn't hesitate to use it. You could frequently hear kids screaming in the hallway as he was making his disciplinary rounds.

And he applied this same strict philosophy of physical punishment in his home as well where he raised a fine, upstanding young son -- a son who is now serving a life sentence for shooting and killing a game warden after he gave him a citation for hunting without a license.

Oh well, I'm sure most of the time it works better than that example.

cpwill
02-07-2005, 03:08 PM
worked on me: i probably would be currently in a correctional facility without it.

Churlant
02-07-2005, 03:11 PM
worked on me: i probably would be currently in a correctional facility without it.

I suppose we'd need to look at how many it worked for and how many it didn't and to what extreme punishments were implemented for both groups.

Anyone taking bets?

-JC

cpwill
02-07-2005, 03:20 PM
:shrug: nothing extreme was practiced on me; at worst mom broke a couple of belts and one particularly large (3ft) spoon.

Churlant
02-07-2005, 03:31 PM
:shrug: nothing extreme was practiced on me; at worst mom broke a couple of belts and one particularly large (3ft) spoon.

Well then I wouldn't have expected you to end up in jail either :)

Wasn't implying it was extreme on you :p Though I WOULD have been surprised if you'd said she used, say, an iron bar 3 times a day and you still ended up your relatively well-adjusted self :)

-JC

heel31ok
02-09-2005, 04:56 PM
You know what data I'd love to see too? How many inmates in the US claim to be 'religious'.........
I'm sure some of the guys in jail still get spanked, but not in the way we are talking about.
I would say most of them claim to be religious. That seems to be the trend once you go in.The better question would be what they believed before they went in.

::Major_Baker::
02-09-2005, 05:38 PM
I would say most of them claim to be religious. That seems to be the trend once you go in.The better question would be what they believed before they went in.
True, good question. However, considering that On December 31, 2003,

At yearend 2003 there were 3,405 black male prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States in prison, compared to 1,231 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 465 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

and I'm speculating that surely the majority of hispanics and possibly blacks claim to be religious, and since the majority of minorities are not incarcerated, that the majority of inmates claimed to be religious before they went in. ehe, long shot eh?
aw well worth a try


hey, , check out this religion GIS page, you havee to click on maps and reports, and choose maps, you can pick the variables. interesting
http://www.thearda.com/arda.asp?Show=Home

Viking
02-11-2005, 04:57 PM
I believe that religion has nothing to do with it. Its called raising a child right with responsibility, intelligence and not spoiling the kids. There are way too many stupid people who are breeding out there. Miracle of child birth....no such thing. Anyone can have a kid. Its not that hard. Instilling a child not to be a complete pile of crap with a lack of respect for others is a miracle. I think those countries that prohibit coporal punishment listed about have something the US does not.... and thats parents who WONT put up with a childs BS. They dont let their children run mad all the time and give in. They are, what you would call, unpussified parents. Not idiots like the majority that we have here. Ask yourself one question....out of all the people you know split them into 2 groups....smart people and stupid ones.....then find out who is breeding more.

mataj
02-12-2005, 08:27 AM
I was Catholic until I was 16. Then they've stopped beating me.

(a Buddhist friend of mine)
......

Smurf
02-12-2005, 05:09 PM
There are people who were spanked and turned out good, there are people who were spanked and didn't turn out so well. I don't think the question is wether spanking is right or wrong, I think it's how you use it that matters.

chris
02-12-2005, 05:19 PM
I dont think spanking is neither here nor there, kids react to what they see around them,if their parents act like irresponsible jackasses then theres a good chance their kids will turn out the same way.