Billy Graham - on NBC primetime

[::Major_Baker::]

So I flipped on NBC last night and saw 50,000 people in a football stadium listening to an old due quote verses from the bible. Billy Graham.
I was with a friend, and we started joking around and decided to look up his web site. We discovered his ingenious way to give your money to Billy...err....God. Billy has set up a programs called deferred giving, aka POD, or payable on death, which means that upon your passing, your estate is immediately donated to Billy Graham incorporated...err....God.

I wonder how many lonely old relgious ladies shovel out their life savings to causes like this, don't you?

The funny thing was that the text made it sound difficult to do anything else with your money besides what was suggested on this page:
Perhaps you want to designate who is to
receive funds at your death. You may wish
to avoid probate. On the other hand, you
don’t want the expense and effort of
establishing a trust or some other
complicated arrangement. Is there a simple
alternative? Let’s find the answer.

Hmm, odd, I didn't think I'd be able to provide a link because websense is supposed to filter "traditional Religions" form our searches. Apparently Billy is exempt--maybe he owns Websense?
http://billygraham.org/glossyIncludes/Development_DeferredGiving/pdf/BenPayableOnDeathAccount.pdf

Look at this beautiful brochure.

This makes me sick, I'm sorry. I hate organized religion.

PS, I realize NBC was paid handsomely for this primetime air spot, but does anyone else feel strange or uneasy about having this type of crap on prime time national TV?

[mataj]

<MOD EDIT> RULE A11 ALL PUBLICLY DISPLAYED MESSAGES ARE TO BE IN ENGLISH<MOD EDIT>

:rolleyes:

[Churlant]

Naw, they pay for it, let em air it. If I'm in the mood for comedy, I'll tune in.. or when I want to tick off my wife ;)

Anyway, you'd be surprised to know how many people designate the NRA and (Fill in the blank) Ministries as their IRA beneficiaries... usually 50/50 :)

-JC

[::Major_Baker::]

Mundus vult decipi ergo decipiatur.

:rolleyes:
Something about deception and the world. That is exactly what I was thinking.
Care to rephrase in English?

[::Major_Baker::]

Naw, they pay for it, let em air it. If I'm in the mood for comedy, I'll tune in.. or when I want to tick off my wife ;)

Anyway, you'd be surprised to know how many people designate the NRA and (Fill in the blank) Ministries as their IRA beneficiaries... usually 50/50 :)

-JC
Well I agree they pay for it is their right to air, but at a time when fundamentalism is running rampant, it makes me nervous, as it should most people.

[Blueangel]

Something about deception and the world. That is exactly what I was thinking.
Care to rephrase in English?It's Latin for 'The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived' and I question why it was edited.

[Churlant]

It's Latin for 'The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived' and I question why it was edited.

Wow... there is a rule A11? ;) Maybe I should read the rules...

-JC

[Churlant]

Wow... there is a rule A11? ;) Maybe I should read the rules...

-JC

hehehe... while I don't disagree with the necessity of rule A11, I found this part "The definition of English is left solely to the discretion of moderators." to be kind of funny ;)

-JC

Hey that is what you get from having mods from four different English speaking countries - sometimes we are not too sure ourselves:D Especially when a word means one thing in one country and another somewhere else.

Okay - back to topic Billy and his gimmee gimmee gimmee philosphy of religion.

[::Major_Baker::]

Really no need to edit in my opinion. But Oh well it makes sense to keep everything legible I guess.
So, no concern about Christianity on national television at 7:00 pm on a tuesday night?
I wish I had a few million dollars so I could host an islamic show of the same type and study the reaction by Americans. What do you think would happen?

There was a woman on there who is quadriplegic, and is now a true believer.....it made me wonder....why? How does permenently losing all of your movement in your limbs make you believe that God has a hand in your life?

[Churlant]

Really no need to edit in my opinion. But Oh well it makes sense to keep everything legible I guess.
So, no concern about Christianity on national television at 7:00 pm on a tuesday night?
I wish I had a few million dollars so I could host an islamic show of the same type and study the reaction by Americans. What do you think would happen?

There was a woman on there who is quadriplegic, and is now a true believer.....it made me wonder....why? How does permenently losing all of your movement in your limbs make you believe that God has a hand in your life?

Well, I'd imagine the rule is there to prevent people from using naughty words, or break other context rules, without anyone knowing :p

As for this stuff on TV... hey, it's a free country :) Long as I'm free to ignore them, I don't have a problem.

-JC

[mataj]

Awww men... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&c2coff=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Mundus+vult+decipi+ergo+decipiatur&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images

[Dangerrmouse]

Who, this Billy Graham?

http://www.counterpunch.org/vestgraham.html

Or did he "repent" on his antisemitic way to the bank?

[JoeR]

Billy Graham? “The man of the hour, the man with the power, too sweet to be sour!” Oh wait....wrong one. This Billy Graham irritates me, along with Falwell and Robertson.

[Kong]

I read something about Mr. Graham’s conversion to Christianity and why he became an evangelist. His reasons are very pathetic. Apparently he had a good feeling at Christian meeting while a young man. His good feeling caused him to make a leap of faith and he’s been preaching salvation through faith ever since.

People around the world sometimes have good feelings about various faiths. A good feeling is not a good reason to take a leap of faith. Good feelings are what people often get from charismatic leaders. I would guess many Germans once had a good feeling about Adolph Hitler. Good feelings don’t make it right.

[heel31ok]

Really no need to edit in my opinion. But Oh well it makes sense to keep everything legible I guess.
So, no concern about Christianity on national television at 7:00 pm on a tuesday night?
I wish I had a few million dollars so I could host an islamic show of the same type and study the reaction by Americans. What do you think would happen?

There was a woman on there who is quadriplegic, and is now a true believer.....it made me wonder....why? How does permenently losing all of your movement in your limbs make you believe that God has a hand in your life?
If she became a believer after she was a "quadriplegic" then you are asking the wrong question. Maybe losing all your movement in your limbs makes you believe God did not have a hand in your life.

[julierep]

Its pretty sad to see people make fun of a man that has dedicated his life to the will of God. Pretty pathetic. Have you looked at all of the ministries that he has? The things he supports with the money that is given? Or did you just look up something that you thought would cause controversy without the full picture? Im sure when Billy Graham is dead and enters the gates of heaven, God will say "Well done my good and faithful servant." What will He say to you?

[julierep]

Here is some info you forgot to fill in:

Annual Reports
These reports contain hope-filled stories about what God has done through the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and provide access to our financial records as part of our ongoing commitment to fiscal accountability.




Samaritan's Purse
This nondenominational evangelical Christian organization provides spiritual and physical aid to hurting people around the world. Since 1970, Samaritan's Purse has helped meet needs of people who are victims of war, poverty, natural disasters, disease and famine with the purpose of sharing God's love through His Son, Jesus Christ. Franklin Graham is the president and chairman of Samaritan's Purse, which is headquartered in Boone, North Carolina.

Visit the Samaritan's Purse site

Now, you were saying Billy Graham is what? What are you doing to help people who are hurting and in need? Remember..."he who casts the first stone..."

[serenity]

I dunno...isn't Billy graham an extremely wealthy man? I mean, that's ok, but you can't claim to be generous, if your giving does not mean some sacrifices.

Not that the gtiving is worthless--it's a very good idea. But anyone with that kind of money who DOESN'T give is living immorally, imo.

I mean, it's like rhapsodizing about what a great guy I am--because i've never murdered anybody. That's not goodness, that's a minimal moral requirement.

Maybe, in heaven, God will say to him: "camel through the eye of a needle, my friend; see you later."

[The Big Bog]

I often wonder when I read about organizations like this what would happen if the impoverished folk that they're supposedly out there helping to feed said "No thank you, I'm [insert non-Christian religion here]" when it came time for the Jesus advertisement. Do they still get to eat? Do they get invited to future dining events? Why does there always have to be a *** for tat? Why can't charity be just that--charity?

It kind of reminds me of the condescension that many of our ancestors used to have toward Native Americans and Africans -- a bunch of "godless savages" who needed a good heaping helping of the Bible in them so that they'd all be more "civilized." Really just a ministry. All done under the guise of charity.

[jamesrage]

PS, I realize NBC was paid handsomely for this primetime air spot, but does anyone else feel strange or uneasy about having this type of crap on prime time national TV?

Yes I get irrate when it comes to scam artist televangilist.I know one thing that you will proably never see on any of those religous channels is their version of MTV cribs.They proably don't because people would see the hypocrosy of these fakers.

[julierep]

I dunno...isn't Billy graham an extremely wealthy man? I mean, that's ok, but you can't claim to be generous, if your giving does not mean some sacrifices.

Not that the gtiving is worthless--it's a very good idea. But anyone with that kind of money who DOESN'T give is living immorally, imo.

I mean, it's like rhapsodizing about what a great guy I am--because i've never murdered anybody. That's not goodness, that's a minimal moral requirement.

Maybe, in heaven, God will say to him: "camel through the eye of a needle, my friend; see you later."

Billy Graham can say a lot more than just "hey, I didnt murder anyone." He gives of his time AND his OWN money. Read the bible, and then say whether or not Billy Graham is doing a good thing that he WILL be rewarded for in heaven. I promise you, the bible will not agree with you.

[Dangerrmouse]

What is your rationalisation of the hate filled, antisemitic Nixon tapes?

[julierep]

What is your rationalisation of the hate filled, antisemitic Nixon tapes?

Never seen them, but then again it goes back to if it is filled with hate, its not from the word of God. People can claim they know God all day long and that God told them to do this or that, but if you read the word of God, then you will see that what they claim to be is not true at all.

[Captain America]

An Easter message from Landover Baptist. (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0404/easterkids.html)

And one for St. Paddy's Day too. (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0301/stpatrick.html)

[julierep]

An Easter message from Landover Baptist. (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0404/easterkids.html)

And one for St. Paddy's Day too. (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0301/stpatrick.html)

Hey Cappy!!! That truley is a sad, sad joke!!!

[serenity]

Billy Graham can say a lot more than just "hey, I didnt murder anyone." He gives of his time AND his OWN money.


You miss my whole point--that he is not sacrificing anything by giving money, because he remains rich--therefore it is not a truly generous act.

He's merely a businessman, and a successful one. "Giving of his time" is part of that.


Read the bible, and then say whether or not Billy Graham is doing a good thing that he WILL be rewarded for in heaven. I promise you, the bible will not agree with you.

What of the "rich man/camel through the eye of a needle" sentiment that i pointed out. Is that not in the Bible?

Can you be selective about what parts of the Bible to believe in, when you believe it is the divinely-inspired work of God?

[serenity]

Oh, and I HAVE read the bible, and frankly found it to be a bit of a masochistic exercise.

[julierep]

Oh, and I HAVE read the bible, and frankly found it to be a bit of a masochistic exercise.

Then your heart must not of been were it needed to be (not to say that is bad or anything, people often do this and dont get a thing out of what they read). As far as Billy Graham goes, God has rewarded him handsomly, which GOd promises to do, for his faithful walk with God. Just because he is rich and lives nicely has nothing to do with his heart. He has put his whole heart and soul into what he does because he was called by God to do so, and God has supplied all of his needs plus overfilled his cup. Look at the heart of the man and not his worth. :)

[serenity]

Then your heart must not of been were it needed to be (not to say that is bad or anything, people often do this and dont get a thing out of what they read).

I appreciate your gentle and diplomatic tone, here. And anyway, I was exaggerating out of crabbiness; I don't dislike the Bible at all.

far as Billy Graham goes, God has rewarded him handsomly, which GOd promises to do, for his faithful walk with God. Just because he is rich and lives nicely has nothing to do with his heart.

Well, my problem with this is that it leads to a very cold and, in my view, obviously inaccurate conclusion: that the rich are rich because of God's favor, because of their character (problematic in mnay cases, I'm sure you'd agree). And the logical corollary, is even worse--that the poor are deserving of such, because they have displeased God, or at any rate are inferior in morality to the rich.

Pretty hard for me to accept...not just philosophically, but due to my own experience and upbringing! :(

[jamesrage]

You miss my whole point--that he is not sacrificing anything by giving money, because he remains rich--therefore it is not a truly generous act.

I have to agree with you on this.Televangilist are all the same.

[el nopal]

Regardless of all the discussions circling around like peons in one of the cantos of hell.

I found the brochure by Billy neat. It had very big and flaunty letter "L"s- which means he is striving to ensure that YOU will be LOVED if you GIVE up your MONEY honey.

[julierep]

I appreciate your gentle and diplomatic tone, here. And anyway, I was exaggerating out of crabbiness; I don't dislike the Bible at all.



Well, my problem with this is that it leads to a very cold and, in my view, obviously inaccurate conclusion: that the rich are rich because of God's favor, because of their character (problematic in mnay cases, I'm sure you'd agree). And the logical corollary, is even worse--that the poor are deserving of such, because they have displeased God, or at any rate are inferior in morality to the rich.

Pretty hard for me to accept...not just philosophically, but due to my own experience and upbringing! :(

Actually, God cherishes the poor, because it brings humility, and humbleness which are two attributes God loves.

Luke 6:19-21 (New Living Translation)

19Everyone was trying to touch him, because healing power went out from him, and they were all cured.

The Beatitudes
20Then Jesus turned to his disciples and said,
"God blesses you who are poor,
for the Kingdom of God is given to you.

21 God blesses you who are hungry now,
for you will be satisfied. God blesses you who weep now,
for the time will come when you will laugh with joy.

[jamesrage]

Actually, God cherishes the poor, because it brings humility, and humbleness which are two attributes God loves.

It would seem that Billy Graham lacks humility and humbleness.

[julierep]

It would seem that Billy Graham lacks humility and humbleness.

How do you come to that conclussion? A man can be rich and be humbled by God. Do you actually know Billy Graham's life story?

[Captain America]

Hi Julie.... :kiss:

[julierep]

Hi Julie.... :kiss:

Hey baby doll!!! :kiss: back at ya!!!

[el nopal]

I know Billy graham's life story! I do I do!

He was a ____ / ____%$#____ / bugger, who is now reformed and hates people not like him. (ie: gay, Jewish, anti-prostitute people).

[julierep]

I know Billy graham's life story! I do I do!

He was a ____ / ____%$#____ / bugger, who is now reformed and hates people not like him. (ie: gay, Jewish, anti-prostitute people).

Resources....PLEASE!!!! anti-prostitute?

[el nopal]

Well, I wanted to say something negative. The man is respected a bit too much.

Anyone with that kind of power and influence has to have a few prostitutes in his closet. Especially the Satanic prostitutes.

He was (and probably still is) anti-semetic, just not openly.

How can anyone accept Jesus in their heart and be anti-semetic at the same time?

[julierep]

Well, I wanted to say something negative. The man is respected a bit too much.

Anyone with that kind of power and influence has to have a few prostitutes in his closet. Especially the Satanic prostitutes.

He was (and probably still is) anti-semetic, just not openly.

How can anyone accept Jesus in their heart and be anti-semetic at the same time?

I have watched Billy Graham since I was a little girl. Not once have I heard him speak illy if jews. Billy Graham is a good man. He has done a lot for mankind. I think his life has outweighed many that want to discolor him.

[el nopal]

I have watched Billy Graham since I was a little girl. Not once have I heard him speak illy if jews. Billy Graham is a good man. He has done a lot for mankind. I think his life has outweighed many that want to discolor him.


Certainly his life has succeeded and excelled in significance when compared to many. But this does not mean the man is flawless. He is a powerful individual, and individuals with such power have agendas and needs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1850077.stm

He must have been very insecure to make such comments in the presence of President Nixon. Otherwise, why would he feel so "small"?

And compared to the rest of the time, that was NOT taped during his life, I wonder what folly such a significant and respected man could engage in.

[julierep]

Certainly his life has succeeded and excelled in significance when compared to many. But this does not mean the man is flawless. He is a powerful individual, and individuals with such power have agendas and needs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1850077.stm

He must have been very insecure to make such comments in the presence of President Nixon. Otherwise, why would he feel so "small"?

And compared to the rest of the time, that was NOT taped during his life, I wonder what folly such a significant and respected man could engage in.

No one is flawless, he wouldnt even say that he was flawless. There has only been one human being that has walked this earth that was without sin, and that was Jesus Christ. If he thought he was flawless, his ministry of teaching the word of Christ would be unnessasary, wouldnt you say?

[el nopal]

No one is flawless, he wouldnt even say that he was flawless. There has only been one human being that has walked this earth that was without sin, and that was Jesus Christ. If he thought he was flawless, his ministry of teaching the word of Christ would be unnessasary, wouldnt you say?

Jesus Christ was a Jew and a flawless humanbeing.

Since Jesus Christ was Jewish, and a flawless humanbeing, then why create another religion (Christianity), and another religion out ot that(Muslim), if there were no flaws to begin with?

How does anyone know Jesus was not flawed?

Is it not flawed to be considered the "son of God" based on the consequences? How can the word of a person who has never flawed, never been flawed and died preach to flawed people. A person who has not flawed can not comprehend the difference. Some would even consider being human at all, to be flawed, making Jesus among the "ranks."
I think this has to do with perception and perceived reality. Maybe Billy Graham is just perceived to be a good person, when inside, he holds the opposite.

[julierep]

Jesus Christ was a Jew and a flawless humanbeing.

Since Jesus Christ was Jewish, and a flawless humanbeing, then why create another religion (Christianity), and another religion out ot that(Muslim), if there were no flaws to begin with?

How does anyone know Jesus was not flawed?

Is it not flawed to be considered the "son of God" based on the consequences? How can the word of a person who has never flawed, never been flawed and died preach to flawed people. A person who has not flawed can not comprehend the difference. Some would even consider being human at all, to be flawed, making Jesus among the "ranks."
I think this has to do with perception and perceived reality. Maybe Billy Graham is just perceived to be a good person, when inside, he holds the opposite.

I have a hard time believing that.

[el nopal]

What do you have a hard time believing?

[Dangerrmouse]

"A lot of Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me and are friendly to me, because they know that I am friendly to Israel and so forth, but they don't know how I really feel about what they're doing to this country, and I have no power and no way to handle them." ...Mr Graham's own words.

Maybe the only reason he is friendly to Israel is that he believes that we are in the "End times", and the prophecy includes the existence of the Israeli state. No Israel, no prophecy.