The Democratizing Meaning

[Craig]

In looking around amazon.com at various books, I came across one entitled "The Purpose Driven Life". Intrigued, I began to read the online excerpt; this was the sort of book that was worth investigating. After only reading a short distance down the first page, however, I realized that essentially the entire book was written around being "purpose driven" by God.

Reading this first bit was depressing to say the least. It became apparent that anything I desired to do would be doomed to inevitable failure, unless that happened to be forming a relationship with God and living according to Christian principles. Rather than feeling liberated by this knowledge, I felt confined and trapped. According to this book, there was only one way, and if you didn't like it, too damn bad. Ironically enough, instead of providing direction and meaning to my life, the book lead me into a state of hopelessness, which thankfully ended when I stopped reading. The realization that the sum of your worth as an individual and a human being is nothing without God is depressing, because it rapidly becomes apparent that it's not you who has any worth, but rather only God.

The book led me to a question too: Why is God so fundamentally opposed to human self-actualization? Or perhaps more accurately, why is God so fundamentally oppossed to any form of human self-actualization save for the one He imposes upon us? Of course, even as I wondered aloud about this question, I already had an idea as to some of the responses that might be offered by Christians, and yet in each and every possible response I could think of it was apparent that they were not considering the full extent and implication of my question, and rather simply trying to "justify the ways of God to man".

And as I thought about it further, I realized why this Christian meaning of life was so popular: because it democratizes the idea of meaning. In the quest for a meaningful life, Christianity is the self-help doctor who makes us feel good about ourselves, rather than the one who asks poignant, uncomfortable, and even painful questions as to why we wasted or misused the precious little time that was allocated to us on Earth. It doesn't ask us to push ourself, to constantly strive and seek for excellence in ourselves each and every day, above and beyond what people normally do. It doesn't matter if we waste away our lives, pursuing meaningless and trivial things; we can still be forgiven, after all, when in truth the years that we squander are gone forever. It is the solace of those who give up on their dreams, of those who compromise, of those who fail without ever really trying.

Many people, no doubt, see this as one of the greatest things about Christianity, but I do not. It is a tacit permission for mediocrity, for simply existing and perishing the way so many other people have in the past. It is far better to strive for something difficult and achieve it, or at least die trying, because then we truly value it. I believe St. Augustine wrote something similar on the subject of the difficulty of interpretating Biblical passages, and it applies to life as well. Better to strive and fail than to never strive at all.

[julierep]

In looking around amazon.com at various books, I came across one entitled "The Purpose Driven Life". Intrigued, I began to read the online excerpt; this was the sort of book that was worth investigating. After only reading a short distance down the first page, however, I realized that essentially the entire book was written around being "purpose driven" by God.

Reading this first bit was depressing to say the least. It became apparent that anything I desired to do would be doomed to inevitable failure, unless that happened to be forming a relationship with God and living according to Christian principles. Rather than feeling liberated by this knowledge, I felt confined and trapped. According to this book, there was only one way, and if you didn't like it, too damn bad. Ironically enough, instead of providing direction and meaning to my life, the book lead me into a state of hopelessness, which thankfully ended when I stopped reading. The realization that the sum of your worth as an individual and a human being is nothing without God is depressing, because it rapidly becomes apparent that it's not you who has any worth, but rather only God.

The book led me to a question too: Why is God so fundamentally opposed to human self-actualization? Or perhaps more accurately, why is God so fundamentally oppossed to any form of human self-actualization save for the one He imposes upon us? Of course, even as I wondered aloud about this question, I already had an idea as to some of the responses that might be offered by Christians, and yet in each and every possible response I could think of it was apparent that they were not considering the full extent and implication of my question, and rather simply trying to "justify the ways of God to man".

And as I thought about it further, I realized why this Christian meaning of life was so popular: because it democratizes the idea of meaning. In the quest for a meaningful life, Christianity is the self-help doctor who makes us feel good about ourselves, rather than the one who asks poignant, uncomfortable, and even painful questions as to why we wasted or misused the precious little time that was allocated to us on Earth. It doesn't ask us to push ourself, to constantly strive and seek for excellence in ourselves each and every day, above and beyond what people normally do. It doesn't matter if we waste away our lives, pursuing meaningless and trivial things; we can still be forgiven, after all, when in truth the years that we squander are gone forever. It is the solace of those who give up on their dreams, of those who compromise, of those who fail without ever really trying.

Many people, no doubt, see this as one of the greatest things about Christianity, but I do not. It is a tacit permission for mediocrity, for simply existing and perishing the way so many other people have in the past. It is far better to strive for something difficult and achieve it, or at least die trying, because then we truly value it. I believe St. Augustine wrote something similar on the subject of the difficulty of interpretating Biblical passages, and it applies to life as well. Better to strive and fail than to never strive at all.

It just so happens that I have read this book in its entirety, and I must say that this book is more than just the one or two pages you read, it is an excellent read. This is not a "self help" book at all. This book was meant to help those people find the purpose of your own life in this world. That there is meaning and a purpose to this life, and yes, it is the purpose that God has in store.

[Craig]

It just so happens that I have read this book in its entirety, and I must say that this book is more than just the one or two pages you read, it is an excellent read. This is not a "self help" book at all. This book was meant to help those people find the purpose of your own life in this world. That there is meaning and a purpose to this life, and yes, it is the purpose that God has in store.

Julie,

I know that the book states it is not a self-help book, as it identifies itself as such. I further know that it's about finding your purpose in the world through God- the first few pages made it evident. Besides, the first seven chapters are available to read online.

However, you have not addressed the central points I have raised here. The central focus is not on the book itself, but rather the democratization of meaningfulness to placate the masses. If I have seriously misunderstood the book, by all means, post evidence for it. But, I know I haven't; Christianity is about belief in God and coming in a close relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. No where do we have to face the bitter feelings of regret if we fail to do something significant with our lives, because in the end, our relationship with God is all that really matters. But it is such that anyone can do it, yet so much of a meaningful life comes out of doing things that not everyone can do because you strive for self-actualization and excellence. Christianity denies the human growth and potential in this regard, and instead subordinates us to God to compensate for our failings.

That's the central idea of my post, and yet it appears glaringly absent in your response.

[julierep]

Julie,

I know that the book states it is not a self-help book, as it identifies itself as such. I further know that it's about finding your purpose in the world through God- the first few pages made it evident. Besides, the first seven chapters are available to read online.

However, you have not addressed the central points I have raised here. The central focus is not on the book itself, but rather the democratization of meaningfulness to placate the masses. If I have seriously misunderstood the book, by all means, post evidence for it. But, I know I haven't; Christianity is about belief in God and coming in a close relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. No where do we have to face the bitter feelings of regret if we fail to do something significant with our lives, because in the end, our relationship with God is all that really matters. But it is such that anyone can do it, yet so much of a meaningful life comes out of doing things that not everyone can do because you strive for self-actualization and excellence. Christianity denies the human growth and potential in this regard, and instead subordinates us to God to compensate for our failings.

That's the central idea of my post, and yet it appears glaringly absent in your response.

God's purpose for us in life is not for us to be a doormat. It is not for us to sit around and just feel the Holy Spirit and be assured that we are going to heaven. You must bear fruit. If the tree produces a twig that bears no fruit (works), than God cuts that twig off. The book actually goes on to show that God expects works from us. The relationship is extremely important, but you also build that relationship with doing significant things in your life according to the will of God. I dont see how Christianity denies the human gorwth and potential. Indeed, it is quite opposite. God expects MUCH from his children. However, He doesnt expect much out of those who dont accept his will. To go further, I have yet to hear from the christian faith to not do significant things in life. Im really quite shocked that you feel that way.

[Larani]

Julie,

I know that the book states it is not a self-help book, as it identifies itself as such. I further know that it's about finding your purpose in the world through God- the first few pages made it evident. Besides, the first seven chapters are available to read online.

However, you have not addressed the central points I have raised here. The central focus is not on the book itself, but rather the democratization of meaningfulness to placate the masses. If I have seriously misunderstood the book, by all means, post evidence for it. But, I know I haven't; Christianity is about belief in God and coming in a close relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. No where do we have to face the bitter feelings of regret if we fail to do something significant with our lives, because in the end, our relationship with God is all that really matters. But it is such that anyone can do it, yet so much of a meaningful life comes out of doing things that not everyone can do because you strive for self-actualization and excellence. Christianity denies the human growth and potential in this regard, and instead subordinates us to God to compensate for our failings.

That's the central idea of my post, and yet it appears glaringly absent in your response.

I disagree Craig, but then again I am not consider a Christian by many of my Christian Brethren Ha Ha. While I will indeed agree with the premise you have posed and that some people within Religion do indeed use religion in such a way I do not think that spirituality (Not religion) works this way for all. In fact I think in some cases spirituality plays towards self-actualization.

If self-actualization is to, "Know thyself and to thyself be true" then spirituality can be a key ingredient to this self-actualization. Now to understand this one would have to understand it polar opposite or what is Non-Self-Actualization.

To me non-self-Actualization would simply be allowing oneself to be defined and submitting oneself to the will of others. Even if those others were indeed wrong. Or as is often the case they not just wrong but purposely so.

I can understand your premise that religion pushes for a group think, group cohesion, and that is submitting oneself to some higher will in some way takes away from their self actualization, and indeed in some such submitting does indeed lead to not taking responsibility for themselves but shuffling it off to some other construct. ie God.

Now with that being said, I do indeed think that sometime be spent then on Individuality versus Community, While it is indeed true that Self Actualization is only in reference to self and thus the individual Once the self become actualized then what does the self do?

You claim and I think rightfully so, that the self does not except less of itself. It accepts its physical and natural limitations but not willfully accepting less. Now This I would agree, but I do not think that such a creature that was as you say fully Self Actualized could then sit back and watch others not be. For wouldn’t to do so be accepting less of themselves if they did?

Let me put it this way. To get it back to the religious aspect. If God wants us to be people who become Self Actualized people, then wouldn’t God himself have to be self-Actualized to want this for us and wouldn't he be expecting nothing less of himself, and being true to himself in the process?

[Craig]

God's purpose for us in life is not for us to be a doormat. It is not for us to sit around and just feel the Holy Spirit and be assured that we are going to heaven. You must bear fruit. If the tree produces a twig that bears no fruit (works), than God cuts that twig off. The book actually goes on to show that God expects works from us. The relationship is extremely important, but you also build that relationship with doing significant things in your life according to the will of God. I dont see how Christianity denies the human gorwth and potential. Indeed, it is quite opposite. God expects MUCH from his children. However, He doesnt expect much out of those who dont accept his will. To go further, I have yet to hear from the christian faith to not do significant things in life. Im really quite shocked that you feel that way.

Upon reconsidering the first seven chapters online, I must state that, in all fairness, Rick Warren's vision of the purpose driven life certainly seems to be advocating a form of excellence. I must apologize then for misrepresenting his position on things. In many ways, he and I seem to be advocating the same things, only we're taking different perspectives in order to reach the end. His is a spiritual excellence, done out of the desire to serve God and exalt Him. In contrast, from my perspective, the desire is for a non-spiritual excellence, done by the individual in order to be a better human being.

However, my initial criticisms still hold by and large with many of the individuals in the Christian community. I have encountered numerous individuals with varying degrees of belief, but even in the ones who spend most of their free time thinking on God, theology, and the church, there is a lack of spiritual excellence; that is to say, their lives are not purpose driven. Though they all invariably want to serve God and to please Him, they have not focussed this desire so that it becomes the central guiding point of their life. My criticism regarding the "Democratized Meaning" comes precisely out of seeing so many Christians simply feeling good and solaced that they will endure for all eternity and yet make no real effort at striving for excellency. To strive above and beyond demands that one must be consumed by the purpose, not merely vacillating in it.

Assuming that Rick Warren does not grossly change his emphasis in the remainder of his book, I think many Christians would do well in reading it. There needs to be more striving of excellence, be it spiritual or otherwise. While I disagree with some of Mr. Warren's premises, (no, I don't need to despair and give up hope for meaning even if we are a random accident in the universe), he still seems to want and promote many of the same ideas of excellence that I believe in. I realize I have taken a nearly 180 degree turn on this book, but it was necessary to do so once I realized that Rick and I weren't so far apart after all.

Strive for excellence in all things that you do.

[mataj]

Life's purpose is much like a credit card. Even if you don't have it, one is promptly imposed on you. As a matter of fact there are so many life's purposes going around, that it's a real achievement to be without it.

The book led me to a question too: Why is God so fundamentally opposed to human self-actualization?Because he was invented for this purpose. The purpose of monotheistic, creator god based religion is to keep people obedient, to keep autocratic, hierarchical, medeival political system going.

[julierep]

Upon reconsidering the first seven chapters online, I must state that, in all fairness, Rick Warren's vision of the purpose driven life certainly seems to be advocating a form of excellence. I must apologize then for misrepresenting his position on things. In many ways, he and I seem to be advocating the same things, only we're taking different perspectives in order to reach the end. His is a spiritual excellence, done out of the desire to serve God and exalt Him. In contrast, from my perspective, the desire is for a non-spiritual excellence, done by the individual in order to be a better human being.

However, my initial criticisms still hold by and large with many of the individuals in the Christian community. I have encountered numerous individuals with varying degrees of belief, but even in the ones who spend most of their free time thinking on God, theology, and the church, there is a lack of spiritual excellence; that is to say, their lives are not purpose driven. Though they all invariably want to serve God and to please Him, they have not focussed this desire so that it becomes the central guiding point of their life. My criticism regarding the "Democratized Meaning" comes precisely out of seeing so many Christians simply feeling good and solaced that they will endure for all eternity and yet make no real effort at striving for excellency. To strive above and beyond demands that one must be consumed by the purpose, not merely vacillating in it.

Assuming that Rick Warren does not grossly change his emphasis in the remainder of his book, I think many Christians would do well in reading it. There needs to be more striving of excellence, be it spiritual or otherwise. While I disagree with some of Mr. Warren's premises, (no, I don't need to despair and give up hope for meaning even if we are a random accident in the universe), he still seems to want and promote many of the same ideas of excellence that I believe in. I realize I have taken a nearly 180 degree turn on this book, but it was necessary to do so once I realized that Rick and I weren't so far apart after all.

Strive for excellence in all things that you do.

I am glad you went on to read. I know from reading this book myself, that it has many great things in it. I learned (from my spiritual standpoint) that there are many things in life that God has willed for me. Rick just trys to help you learn to discover that will and live it out. Like I said before, I strongly recommend this book to anyone, even unbelievers.

[DRMIZER]

Does the book imply, but not state, that without God one cannot have a purpose? If it does, then the book is in great error.

Dr. Abraham Maslow coined the term “Self-Actualization” as the pinnacle in the hierarchy of human needs. Dr. Maslow summed up the concept as:

"A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be at peace with himself. What a man can be, he must be. This is the need we may call self-actualization ... It refers to man's desire for fulfillment, namely to the tendency for him to become actually in what he is potentially: to become everything that one is capable of becoming ..."

Shouldn't God be in step with us on this point?

[julierep]

Does the book imply, but not state, that without God one cannot have a purpose? If it does, then the book is in great error.

Dr. Abraham Maslow coined the term “Self-Actualization” as the pinnacle in the hierarchy of human needs. Dr. Maslow summed up the concept as:

"A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be at peace with himself. What a man can be, he must be. This is the need we may call self-actualization ... It refers to man's desire for fulfillment, namely to the tendency for him to become actually in what he is potentially: to become everything that one is capable of becoming ..."

Shouldn't God be in step with us on this point?

God allows us to do things we enjoy doing. That is not really the point of the book. I mean, it does mention something to this effect in the book, but its more than just that.

[Larani]

Does the book imply, but not state, that without God one cannot have a purpose? If it does, then the book is in great error.

Dr. Abraham Maslow coined the term “Self-Actualization” as the pinnacle in the hierarchy of human needs. Dr. Maslow summed up the concept as:

"A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be at peace with himself. What a man can be, he must be. This is the need we may call self-actualization ... It refers to man's desire for fulfillment, namely to the tendency for him to become actually in what he is potentially: to become everything that one is capable of becoming ..."

Shouldn't God be in step with us on this point?

Actually DRIMZER this was Jesus's point in the parable of the Talents but many people take it literally and thought it was a course in economics. to justify their greedy gains which of course we know goes against many other principles Jesus taught. But in a nutshell yes Do not waste the Talents God has given you because to do so would be against his will for he willed you to be a musician to make music, and artist who would paint, be what you were meant to be.

[DRMIZER]

Actually DRIMZER this was Jesus's point in the parable of the Talents but many people take it literally and thought it was a course in economics. to justify their greedy gains which of course we know goes against many other principles Jesus taught. But in a nutshell yes Do not waste the Talents God has given you because to do so would be against his will for he willed you to be a musician to make music, and artist who would paint, be what you were meant to be.My point exactly!

[Craig]

Does the book imply, but not state, that without God one cannot have a purpose? If it does, then the book is in great error.


Quotes from the excerpt found on www.purposedrivenlife.com:

"If you want to know why you were placed on this planet, you must begin with God. You were born by his purpose and for his purpose."

"Contrary to what many popular books, movies, and seminars will tell you, you won't discover your life's meaning by looking within yourself."

"It is only in God that we discover our origin, our identity, our meaning, our purpose, our significance, and our destiny. Every other path leads to a dead end."

"If there were no God, we would all be 'accidents', the results of astronomical random chance in the universe. You could stop reading this right now, because life would have no purpose or significance."

I think these quotes pretty much answer your question.

[el nopal]

Quotes from the excerpt found on www.purposedrivenlife.com:

"If you want to know why you were placed on this planet, you must begin with God. You were born by his purpose and for his purpose."

"Contrary to what many popular books, movies, and seminars will tell you, you won't discover your life's meaning by looking within yourself."

"It is only in God that we discover our origin, our identity, our meaning, our purpose, our significance, and our destiny. Every other path leads to a dead end."

"If there were no God, we would all be 'accidents', the results of astronomical random chance in the universe. You could stop reading this right now, because life would have no purpose or significance."

I think these quotes pretty much answer your question.


Ouch, that explains much about what he thinks. What a jerk! And he has the audacity to write a book to guide people.

[julierep]

Ouch, that explains much about what he thinks. What a jerk! And he has the audacity to write a book to guide people.

Read the book before you judge. Look at what Craig did. He might not entirely agree with Rick, but they were (in a way), more or less, on the same page.

[Russikan]

I think julie that at this point everyone understands what he is saying.

The only thing is that Craig seems to be evaluating this based on the effect it is most likely to have whereas others evaluate it based upon either how it would effect them if they read it or its general truth level(TM).

Since only religious would read it it might have a benifit however generally speaking it is untrue and any person who is not Christian and (I hesitate to say most) Christians would not accept his general premise to be true and therefore they would ignore the book.

[julierep]

I think julie that at this point everyone understands what he is saying.

The only thing is that Craig seems to be evaluating this based on the effect it is most likely to have whereas others evaluate it based upon either how it would effect them if they read it or its general truth level(TM).

Since only religious would read it it might have a benifit however generally speaking it is untrue and any person who is not Christian and (I hesitate to say most) Christians would not accept his general premise to be true and therefore they would ignore the book.

actually it has taken on well widespread among christians and churches.

[Craig]

Read the book before you judge. Look at what Craig did. He might not entirely agree with Rick, but they were (in a way), more or less, on the same page.

Yes, in many ways, I did agree with Rick. Obviously, however, one of my principle disagreements stemmed from the quoted material above. I would not give up and simply declare life is purposeless if we are, in fact, just a random astronomical chance. And I certainly believe that it is possible to strive for things without focussing on fame, power, pleasure, approval, wealth, etc. without having God in mind.

[Russikan]

See julie I hesitate because I am not very good at judging things like that.

[julierep]

See julie I hesitate because I am not very good at judging things like that.

Oh, sorry...didnt see that.Well you are not like many others who just claim to know. Thanks for at least doing that! :)