Retired USS Iowa headed inland after anti-war rejection

[GI Joe]

This is just a slap in the face to all vets and shows at the pettiness and hate for America by many in the anti-war crowd.

SAN FRANCISCO -- The USS Iowa joined in battles from World War II to Korea to the Persian Gulf. It carried President Franklin Roosevelt home from the Tehran conference of allied leaders, and four decades later suffered one of the nation's most deadly military accidents.

Veterans groups and history buffs had hoped that tourists in San Francisco could walk the same teak decks where sailors dodged Japanese machine-gun fire and fired 16-inch guns that helped win battles across the South Pacific.

Instead, it appears that the retired battleship is headed about 80 miles inland, to Stockton, a gritty agricultural port town on the San Joaquin River and home of California's annual asparagus festival.



snip
But city supervisors voted 8-3 last month to oppose taking in the ship, citing local opposition to the Iraq war and the military's stance on gays, among other things.

snip
Feinstein called it a ''very petty decision.''

''This isn't the San Francisco that I've known and loved and grew up in and was born in,'' Feinstein said.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-iowa21.html






also

snip
"San Francisco's rejection of such a storied battleship is a slap in the nation's face. We're lucky our men and women have sacrificed their lives to protect our freedom. Wherever you stand on the war in Iraq you shouldn't make a decision based on philosophy."

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/cgi-bin/news/newsbrief.plx?id=2249179204&fa=1

[green lantern]

an absolute disgrace

[HAVOC451]

You know, as Iowa goes by SF on it's way to Stockton it could light off a 9 gun salute (only powder, wink wink) just to say hi.

[Missouri Mule]

Even Senator Feinstein is outraged. This is why I will never, never trust the far left with making decisions affecting our nation's defense. This is a historical ship; the sister ship of the U.S.S. Missouri where WWII was formerly ended. The "Iowa Class" of battleships was the largest and most feared battleships ever to grace the sea. Both the U.S.S. Iowa and the U.S.S. Missouri came out of mothballs to fight in later wars.

Simply disgraceful. I visted San Francisco in 1975 and thought it was a beautiful city. I wouldn't even consider going within 100 miles of it now. Utter madness.

We should probably remove the Liberty Bell, and all of the other relics of our War for Independence. Certainly that war was not an altogether popular war and men died by the thousands. How horrible. People died and things were broken. The horror.

All wars are bad but we should remove our history as well? What has come over this country? It is not the America I grew up in.

Suffice it to say that the Republican Party will never hold its national convention in the "City by the Bay."

[Heads_On_Pikes]

Suffice it to say that the Republican Party will never hold its national convention in the "City by the Bay."

Oddly enough (or not), I was just reading this morning that San Fran is the only one of the 25 largest U.S. cities President Bush has not visited during his presidency.

[Missouri Mule]

Oddly enough (or not), I was just reading this morning that San Fran is the only one of the 25 largest U.S. cities President Bush has not visited during his presidency.

I keep hoping that California will decide to secede from the United States. If this hastens this, I will be supportive of such future actions. Absent that, I believe California ought to be divided into three states. As it stands right now it is a dysfunctional state. Even Swarzenegger has evidently proven to be a bust as governor. I think it is ungovernable.

[Missouri Mule]

This is a photo of the U.S.S. Iowa in action.

http://www.afn.org/~scotsman/photos/uss.iowa.jpg

[Missouri Mule]

Oddly enough (or not), I was just reading this morning that San Fran is the only one of the 25 largest U.S. cities President Bush has not visited during his presidency.

I can't imagine why. All of 15% voted for him in 2004. :cool: 85% voted against him.

[HAVOC451]

This is a photo of the U.S.S. Iowa in action.

http://www.afn.org/~scotsman/photos/uss.iowa.jpg
Yeah, that's the ticket! Just as she passes between alcatraz and fisherman's warf. ;)

[Jarlaxle]

The "Iowa Class" of battleships was the largest and most feared battleships ever to grace the sea

Sorry to go off-topic, but the Iowas are a distant third in both categories, behind the Japanese Yamato-class, and the German Bismark and Tirpitz.

[The_Penguin]

I keep hoping that California will decide to secede from the United States. If this hastens this, I will be supportive of such future actions. Absent that, I believe California ought to be divided into three states. As it stands right now it is a dysfunctional state. Even Swarzenegger has evidently proven to be a bust as governor. I think it is ungovernable.
The southern part can go away and join Mexico, I want the northern part.

[Missouri Mule]

Sorry to go off-topic, but the Iowas are a distant third in both categories, behind the Japanese Yamato-class, and the German Bismark and Tirpitz.

Well, if I recall correctly, all three are or were at the bottom of the sea. Neither the Missouri or Iowa suffered such fates. They were what I would call consequential battleships. They actually made a difference. The others were more symbols than substance. While the Bismarck had some initial success it was actually disabled by an old bi-plane of WWI vintage whose torpedo damaged its steering mechanism. None of those ships had much to do with affecting the outcome of the war. Certainly the Missouri and Iowa did and served well after WWII ended and with great distinction. Who can forget McArthur and his solemmI declaration at the end of WWII "These proceedings are closed" as he closed up the formal surrender document from the Japanese? About the only distinction the Tirpitz had was that it was eventually salvaged for junk. Both the Missouri and Iowa could conceivably be recommissioned under the right set of circumstances, although doubtful.

The only military hardware that I can think of that could offer any real competition to these would be in a different arena; that being the air. The B-52 will be retired after it has flown some 90 years. Conceived in 1950; it is not scheduled to be phased out completely until the year 2040.

"Probably the finest battleships of all time. The second pair of ships had been planned as Montana class ships, but they were changed to Iowas to speed production. Reactivated for Korean War service in WWII configuration. The class was nearly discarded in 1974. Entire class extensively updated in the 1980's":

http://www.bb62museum.org/stats.html

[Jarlaxle]

Bismark, after destroying (not just sinking, obliterating) a British battle cruiser (Hood) and badly damaging Britain's newest battleship (Prince of Wales), required the combined fire of 2 battleships (King George V, Rodney) and 2 cruisers (Norfolk, Dorsetshire) for several hours, and finally, several torpedoes, before sinking. Tirpitz required a 10-ton bomb, after many other attacks (never saw sea combat).

The Iowas were not the largest battleships. The Yamatos, in particular, dwarfed them (almost twice the tonnage). They were not the most powerful (again, the Yamatos). They simply enjoyed service when the US Navy had the upper hand.

The Swordfish torpedo plane went into service in 1936.

[GI Joe]

Bismark, after destroying (not just sinking, obliterating) a British battle cruiser (Hood) and badly damaging Britain's newest battleship (Prince of Wales), required the combined fire of 2 battleships (King George V, Rodney) and 2 cruisers (Norfolk, Dorsetshire) for several hours, and finally, several torpedoes, before sinking. Tirpitz required a 10-ton bomb, after many other attacks (never saw sea combat).

The Iowas were not the largest battleships. The Yamatos, in particular, dwarfed them (almost twice the tonnage). They were not the most powerful (again, the Yamatos). They simply enjoyed service when the US Navy had the upper hand.

The Swordfish torpedo plane went into service in 1936.

Iowa tonnage was 58,000 loaded and Yamato was 71,000




I found this site
The BIGGEST, the BADDEST, the most ... PONDEROUS BBs ever to roam the earth. Yes, I know that the U.S. Iowa-class had superior radar fire control, and better damage control, and that in terms of actual armor penetration the 16"/50 cal. mounted on the Iowas was almost identical to the much heavier 18"/45 cal. the Yamatos sported. So I suppose the Iowa probably would have triumphed over Yamato in a one-on-one engagement. If you really want to debate the point ad nauseum, I refer you first to my page on this very subject, and then to the sci.military.naval newsgroup.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/yamato_c.htm


side by side comparisons
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

[Missouri Mule]

Bismark, after destroying (not just sinking, obliterating) a British battle cruiser (Hood) and badly damaging Britain's newest battleship (Prince of Wales), required the combined fire of 2 battleships (King George V, Rodney) and 2 cruisers (Norfolk, Dorsetshire) for several hours, and finally, several torpedoes, before sinking. Tirpitz required a 10-ton bomb, after many other attacks (never saw sea combat).

The Iowas were not the largest battleships. The Yamatos, in particular, dwarfed them (almost twice the tonnage). They were not the most powerful (again, the Yamatos). They simply enjoyed service when the US Navy had the upper hand.

The Swordfish torpedo plane went into service in 1936.

Well, the Hood was hardly in the same class as the Bismarck.

But this is all academic anyway. As I said, the others are long gone while the "Mighty Mo" and Iowa are still very seaworthy and very historic. I plan to go not too long to visit the U.S.S. Lexington moored in Corpus Christi.

http://www.usslexington.com/

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv16-lexington/cv16-lexington.html

To the folks here who believe that the Iowa is insignificant and some kind of eyesore, perhaps we ought to abandon the U.S.S. Arizona museum in Pearl Harbor as well. After, all who wants an old "rusty hulk" around anyway?

[USViking]

Iowa tonnage was 58,000 loaded and Yamato was 71,000

And Bismarck and Tirpitz were about 42,000,
weren't they, with 8x15" guns to Iowa's 9x16"?




I found this site
The BIGGEST, the BADDEST, the most ... PONDEROUS BBs ever to roam the earth. Yes, I know that the U.S. Iowa-class had superior radar fire control, and better damage control, and that in terms of actual armor penetration the 16"/50 cal. mounted on the Iowas was almost identical to the much heavier 18"/45 cal. the Yamatos sported. So I suppose the Iowa probably would have triumphed over Yamato in a one-on-one engagement. If you really want to debate the point ad nauseum, I refer you first to my page on this very subject, and then to the sci.military.naval newsgroup.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/yamato_c.htm


side by side comparisons
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm
That's a good site.

[Jarlaxle]

IIRC, Bismark was just over 65,000 tons combat-ready. Guns were 15", I think 8 of them...interestingly, the same as the Hood.

[Duo_Maxwell]

To the folks here who believe that the Iowa is insignificant and some kind of eyesore, perhaps we ought to abandon the U.S.S. Arizona museum in Pearl Harbor as well. After, all who wants an old "rusty hulk" around anyway?

The Arizona needs to be cleaned up. Seriously, you can see oil comming up from the ship. That thing is a pollution problem. The real reason they haven't cleaned it up is due to the poor visibility and the dangerous conditions down there. Something like couple feet of visibility on a good day, not because of damaging the remaining rusting, degrading parts of the ship. Still, at least they finally cut back the overgrown vegetation around the building leading to the memorial. Really ugly.

Still, like always most of you are jumping to conclusions.

The obvious questions must be asked:

Who pays for the upkeep?
Who pays for the initial cleanup?
Who pays for the towing?
Who pays for the other structures?

If it was a state or county museum, such as the Hawaii one (falls of clyde anyone?), I wouldn't blame them for passing it on. They can barely make ends meet now, much less acquire the funds to build add-ons for such a large ship much less clean it, and maintain it. Of course I am merely using my own state's example. If the Feds were going to mainitain it, as they are doing the Arizona and to a degree the Missouri, San Fran made a bad decision.

As for the Hood, I suggest you check up on what the ship meant to the Royal Navy. Litterally crushing it like a worm is hardly insignificent considering the massive search and resources the Royal Navy poured into killing the ship.