The religious view on the hurricanes [Archive] - Whistle Stopper Political Forums

The Big Bog

09-24-2005, 12:14 AM

Possibly to open Americas eyes.
Are you implying that this is a long overdue punishment of some sort? If so, how is blowing up a couple dozen helpless elderly people on a bus opening my eyes to anything? If I've experienced any kind of epiphany at all from these dreadful news stories of late it's the utter realization that we live in a hopeless and pointlessly random universe void of any intelligent design or plan whatsoever.

I'm not attacking you because I respect you but I just think this explanation sounds like another empty cliche. :(

cpwill

09-24-2005, 12:40 AM

Everything happens for a reason. To those who believe God plays in active role on our daily lives: Why are we being battered by so many acts of God?

clearly it is to punish us for our evil ways, our open acceptance of burger king, our willingness to engage in such policies as interstate highway building, our repeated references in our cartoons to getting high by licking frogs, and our wicked willingness to embrace the color mauve, which was expresely forbidden us because it is of the devil.

thats about what you're looking for? :)

IDK

09-24-2005, 12:18 PM

IDK

09-24-2005, 12:19 PM

Possibly to open Americas eyes.
Will it work? If it doesn't, why doesn't God send a clear message?

Aly Liz

09-24-2005, 03:59 PM

Craig

09-24-2005, 04:04 PM

God works like puzzle. Looking at one piece by itself doesnt make any sence to us at all. However, seeing all the pieces together does make sence. Right now most of us are looking at just the one part. Try looking at the bigger picture and youll understand.

Can you see the bigger picture clearly? If so, please explain for not all of us have this gift of sight. Please help the rest of us, in your wisdom, see the puzzle in its entirety.

Aly Liz

09-24-2005, 04:25 PM

Can you see the bigger picture clearly? If so, please explain for not all of us have this gift of sight. Please help the rest of us, in your wisdom, see the puzzle in its entirety.

Look at what it has uncovered.
The joke that FEMA really is. Its uncovered the slime behind Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin.

Look at what it has helped us with.
Now we are prepared for another disaster and know how to handle it.

The question you ask isnt a simple one to answer. You just have to be faithful and believe in God and what hes doing. Im not really sure how to answer it to help you understand what im talking about. I can see your not religioius. If not, why are placing the blame on a God which you dont even believe in in the frist place?

Craig

09-24-2005, 04:39 PM

Look at what it has uncovered.
The joke that FEMA really is. Its uncovered the slime behind Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin.

Look at what it has helped us with.
Now we are prepared for another disaster and know how to handle it.

Essentially then, you are stating that out of this evil has come some good. But, is it not possible for good to come out of good? And if so, is it not preferable to have good come out from good, rather than good from evil?

The question you ask isnt a simple one to answer. You just have to be faithful and believe in God and what hes doing. Im not really sure how to answer it to help you understand what im talking about. I can see your not religioius. If not, why are placing the blame on a God which you dont even believe in in the frist place?

Good heavens, if I have some how implied in my last post that this is God's fault, I must apologize, for I did not intend it. And I am well aware that the question I asked is not a simple one, which is why I hoped that you might have better understanding of it than I or the others do, and that you might share this understanding with us.

Churlant

09-24-2005, 05:53 PM

clearly it is to punish us for our evil ways, our open acceptance of burger king, our willingness to engage in such policies as interstate highway building, our repeated references in our cartoons to getting high by licking frogs, and our wicked willingness to embrace the color mauve, which was expresely forbidden us because it is of the devil.

thats about what you're looking for? :)

I'm a bit confused by your sarcasm here... clearly there are those who feel these events ARE a form of "punishment" for such things as abortion, etc. I've seen people claim that a lack of God in our schools contributes to the hurricanes... and it doesn't stop there.

So there is no need to set up a caricature of these kinds of thoughts in order to discredit them... unfortunately they DO exist, and Julie is even showing as much. :)

-JC

Lumpen Prole

09-24-2005, 07:18 PM

It all makes sense now! God must have made 9/11 happen too. It was all to open our eyes. I guess those hijackers really were doing it for God. The irony!

:sleep:

Aly Liz

09-25-2005, 03:26 AM

IDK

09-25-2005, 01:52 PM

Imagine a world with no fear. In a world with no fear there would be no bravery.
Imagine a world with no bad. In a world with no bad there would be no good.
So in a world with out sadness there would be no happiness. And in a world with no pain there would be no pleasure.

Emotions are human. A world with no bad would be a good world, and we wouldn't know anything else. Simply saying, 'God killed those children so that the rest can appreciate happiness," is just disgustingly sacrificial and primitive.

Aly Liz

09-25-2005, 06:40 PM

Emotions are human. A world with no bad would be a good world, and we wouldn't know anything else. Simply saying, 'God killed those children so that the rest can appreciate happiness," is just disgustingly sacrificial and primitive.

I dont understand what your trying to say.

Sauniere

09-25-2005, 10:08 PM

Look, if you believe a supreme being created the universe, started whatever forces that led to the Big Bang, and has moved on to more important duties in other parallel universes, then that I could agree with. That is, he just pushed the start button and everything from then on has happened of its own momentum.

It is impossible to believe that a supreme being interfers in the daily lives of this miserable experiment that we call humanity.

Craig

09-26-2005, 01:08 AM

Imagine a world with no fear. In a world with no fear there would be no bravery.
Imagine a world with no bad. In a world with no bad there would be no good.
So in a world with out sadness there would be no happiness. And in a world with no pain there would be no pleasure.

You haven't answered my question. I asked whether it is better for good to come out of evil, or good to come out of good. I'm not asking whether or not good can exist without evil.

Scaryclouds

09-26-2005, 01:30 AM

Unless I am mistaken, but after Jesus was crucified wasn't that suppose to stop all of the grand punishments? That is like Sodom and Garmora? I don't ask this hostiliy but as a christian I believe this is what I have been taught that because Jesus died for us until the final days there would be no more grand gestures of punishment by God.

Next not to say God is in anyway uncaring but I personally do not believe he is constitently changing things in our world in the matter you suggest. I do believe that if a person prays to God and truly believes in the power of God that God will answer that prayer in some form. But to say that God specifically created those hurricanes in order to "open American eyes" is hard to believe. If that was the case why not the Middle East? Many christians are killed over there just for being christian and about 99% of the ME are dedicated followers of Islam.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 10:53 AM

The basics of this lesson rest on humanity's inherent dislike of feeling hopeless - and nothing will make you feel quite so hopeless, especially in this day and age, like a category 4 hurricane heading in your direction.

In an effort to maintain some kind of control over the tragedy, we invent not only a direct cause (God), but a reason why it happened (punishment for a country which allows abortion) and a way to avoid such punishments (pray, convert, get more people of God in office to change the laws, etc).

Some of us just can't stand the idea of random and neutral destruction and chaos.

-JC

::Major_Baker::

09-26-2005, 10:56 AM

Hurricanes are caused by nature. To attribute them to God would be to deny science.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 10:59 AM

Hurricanes are caused by nature. To attribute them to God would be to deny science.

Hehhehehe... yeah, and I've never known fundamentalists to reject science in favor of faith... ;)

or were you being ironic? :p

-JC

prst31

09-26-2005, 12:19 PM

Churlant

09-26-2005, 12:33 PM

I agree with you here. Not unlike attempting to attribute hurricanes in 2005 to global warming, as if they've never existed or hit NO/Texas before.

No one is attributing the hurricane itself to GW, just the somewhat large number of them and their intensities. :)

-JC

prst31

09-26-2005, 12:47 PM

No one is attributing the hurricane itself to GW, just the somewhat large number of them and their intensities. :)

-JCMaybe it's both their faults. God for making them, Bush for intensifying them. Back in the Clinton era they used to say HAARP (http://www.alphalink.com.au/~noelmcd/lostlink/wea-mod.htm) was the cause.
PC Disclaimer a la Dave Hanson - Note: The above reference to Clinton in no way is meant to suggest that this Bush supporter is blaming Clinton. It is only to point to the consistent and historical quackery that is always exhibited by some. In other words, blaming the government for weather patterns is nothing new.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 12:52 PM

Maybe it's both their faults. God for making them, Bush for intensifying them. Back in the Clinton era they used to say HAARP (http://www.alphalink.com.au/~noelmcd/lostlink/wea-mod.htm) was the cause.
PC Disclaimer a la Dave Hanson - Note: The above reference to Clinton in no way is meant to suggest that this Bush supporter is blaming Clinton. It is only to point to the consistent and historical quackery that is always exhibited by some. In other words, blaming the government for weather patterns is nothing new.

I think you're being just a bit defensive. This isn't rocket science and it isn't any one administration's fault. Hurricanes are created by warm water - which is why they don't appear in the winter. The warmer the water, the more hurricanes - and at higher intensity. :shrug:

The Bush administration gets the brunt because they don't acknowledge global warming at all, much less try and do something about it. The motive behind this ignorance is money... again, not rocket science.

And yeah, another CLINTON DID IT! defense... don't accept your disclaimer ;)

-JC

prst31

09-26-2005, 01:11 PM

I think you're being just a bit defensive. This isn't rocket science and it isn't any one administration's fault. Hurricanes are created by warm water - which is why they don't appear in the winter. The warmer the water, the more hurricanes - and at higher intensity. :shrug:

The Bush administration gets the brunt because they don't acknowledge global warming at all, much less try and do something about it. The motive behind this ignorance is money... again, not rocket science.

And yeah, another CLINTON DID IT! defense... don't accept your disclaimer ;)

-JCOh. I thought we were having a rational conversation based on your initial hypothesis; that we (humans) will try and explain catasrophies, rather than except they are out of our control. Whether that be a religious, scientific or political explaination, it's the same premise; We fear what we cannot control so to give explaination is to gain control and not fear. Essentially we become larger than life instead of as small as ants when life has it's control on us.
I don't deny what your saying. Some people deny global warming exists yet the act of placing the blame on whatever, is to give us control, make us feel bigger than the little ants we really are compared to nature.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 01:21 PM

Oh. I thought we were having a rational conversation based on your initial hypothesis; that we (humans) will try and explain catasrophies, rather than except they are out of our control.

Yes. I don't think you're getting it... you obviously don't believe in GW at all. :shrug:

I'm not blaming global warming for the hurricane. No one who is seriously pointing out GW's contribution to hurricane intensity would either. There IS the question of whether global warming helps make them stronger, isn't there? Hell, this isn't even about man-made contributions to GW - it isn't really a debate that the globe IS warming up - just whether it's our fault, or a natural cycle... (and probably a combination of both).

Saying that a particular hurricane season was especially active due to higher than normal surface water temperatures is sound science, not a form of rationalization in our lack of control. Some people are trying to take advantage by claiming Bush himself is creating hurricanes because of his policies - much too far left for my taste. Some are dismissing GW's contribution entirely because they're afraid of the bottom line... too far right. :)

-JC

prst31

09-26-2005, 02:25 PM

Yes. I don't think you're getting it... you obviously don't believe in GW at all. :shrug:What do you mean I don't believe in GW? I completely believe the earth is warming because of the increase in solar activity over the past 50 years, as scientists have said. :confused:

I'm not blaming global warming for the hurricane. No one who is seriously pointing out GW's contribution to hurricane intensity would either. There IS the question of whether global warming helps make them stronger, isn't there? Hell, this isn't even about man-made contributions to GW - it isn't really a debate that the globe IS warming up - just whether it's our fault, or a natural cycle... (and probably a combination of both).There are lots of questions and only hypothetical answers at this point. I can't say for sure that gw is making them stronger when these aren't even close to the strongest ones recorded in the area.

So the bottom line of my point is some will say it was God. Some will say it was GW, even that GW intensified it. We don't know so we create explainations to deal with the fact we are ants in the shadow of nature's boot. George Carlin once said something like, Mother Earth can shake us off her back like fleas off a wet dog if she wants to. I agreed with your original premise; (In an effort to maintain some kind of control over the tragedy, we invent not only a direct cause (God), but a reason why it happened (punishment for a country which allows abortion) and a way to avoid such punishments (pray, convert, get more people of God in office to change the laws, etc).

Some of us just can't stand the idea of random and neutral destruction and chaos.) and am only pointing out it could be applied to all perspectives, including the old "HAARP" theories.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 02:28 PM

So the bottom line of my point is some will say it was God. Some will say it was GW, even that GW intensified it. We don't know so we create explanations...

This is where you get fuzzy. There is a difference between "god is punishing us" and "the warming oceans intensify hurricanes". One is science and verifiable - one is not.

I'm not really sure why you're trying to link these concepts. They are completely opposed.

-JC

towski

09-26-2005, 02:29 PM

Maybe god is punishing us by warming the oceans to intensify hurricanes.

Huh? Ever thought about that, smart guy? :p

Churlant

09-26-2005, 03:11 PM

Maybe god is punishing us by warming the oceans to intensify hurricanes.

Huh? Ever thought about that, smart guy? :p

Cute :p I wish the filters were out so I could label you a smart*** properly ;)

Seriously though... even more simple, the division here is this...

Faith looks at a hurricane and asks "Why me?"
Science looks at a hurricane and asks "Why?"

-JC

prst31

09-26-2005, 05:28 PM

This is where you get fuzzy. There is a difference between "god is punishing us" and "the warming oceans intensify hurricanes". One is science and verifiable - one is not.

I'm not really sure why you're trying to link these concepts. They are completely opposed.

-JCWorking backwards here. I'm not linking anything other than human reasoning. One person reasons that it happened because God wanted it to; to teach us a lesson. The other that hurricanes are inevitable but the intensity is controlable if we reduce GW and another because the republican controlled congress runs HAARP (pre global warming).

Taking away your parenthesis - In an effort to maintain some kind of control over the tragedy, we invent not only a direct cause, but a reason why it happened, and a way to avoid such punishments.

Some of us just can't stand the idea of random and neutral destruction and chaos.

I find your statement to apply universally true to whatever we believe to be the cause, including towsi's theory.

Churlant

09-26-2005, 05:34 PM

The other that hurricanes are inevitable but the intensity is controlable if we reduce GW and another because the republican controlled congress runs HAARP (pre global warming).
.

No one is saying this. :shrug:

I'm not sure how many more times I need to repeat myself... Hell, I'm not even sure what your point is. If you're trying to point out that believing Bush is to blame for hurricane intensity because of GW policies, then yeah I agree this is silly.

-JC

Aly Liz

09-27-2005, 01:49 AM

You haven't answered my question. I asked whether it is better for good to come out of evil, or good to come out of good. I'm not asking whether or not good can exist without evil.

To be quite honest i cant answer that. I, myself, have not been able to see the puzzle in its entirety yet. But i still believe some good will come of this. Part of why i chose to believe is that I look at the more optimistic side of things. And the other part is my belief in God. I put things in hands that are out of my control and pray that he can make the best of something so bad. There is nothing more I, or anyone can do. *****ing and blaming people just causes more chaos.

Redratio1

09-27-2005, 04:33 AM

Perhaps SUVs are a sin? Or perhaps pissing in God's creation by using 1/4 the world's resources is actually pissing in God's eye....

prst31

09-27-2005, 08:11 AM

No one is saying this. :shrug:

I'm not sure how many more times I need to repeat myself... Hell, I'm not even sure what your point is. If you're trying to point out that believing Bush is to blame for hurricane intensity because of GW policies, then yeah I agree this is silly.

-JCFOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAN! I agreed with your statement about fifteen posts ago that I keep putting in BOLD for you. I simply, calmly, and rationally began to discuss it's universal application. It can be applied to ALL human explainations for hurricanes, intensity of hurricanes, destruction of hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, pandemic flu, Chiefs whoopin's :( etc, etc, etc...
Do you think your statement only applies to Christians blaming God? I guess you can disagree that it applies anywhere else if you want but that's kind of silly if you ask me.

DRMIZER

09-27-2005, 12:22 PM

Possibly to open Americas eyes.I would only hope that a God who can plague the world with hurricanes and other natural disasters could get our attention by another, less destructive way. Try appearing in the sky, for example. . . . . . . . .I think more would believe than through destruction.

Aly Liz

09-27-2005, 06:14 PM

All of you seem to place the blame with God whenever anything bad happens. Thats fine, i guess, but do you ever give him credit for all the good that happens?

I didnt think so.

::Major_Baker::

09-27-2005, 06:34 PM

All of you seem to place the blame with God whenever anything bad happens. Thats fine, i guess, but do you ever give him credit for all the good that happens?

I didnt think so.
Like what exactly? sunshine?
bountiful harvest?

I don't but I know others do.

Aly Liz

09-27-2005, 06:41 PM

I don't but I know others do.

As do I.

And how many of you in here actually believe in God? Becuase if you dont you shouldnt be posting in here blaming all this 'bad stuff' on a God that you dont even belive in.. and if you refer to post #1 is says:

To those who believe God

Craig

09-27-2005, 09:40 PM

As do I.

And how many of you in here actually believe in God? Becuase if you dont you shouldnt be posting in here blaming all this 'bad stuff' on a God that you dont even belive in.. and if you refer to post #1 is says:

Certainly though, those who believe in a God other than the Christian version of Him are free to post and criticize. And there's no reason why agnostics or atheists should not post either; the initial question is directed towards Christians, but that doesn't prohibit others from giving their views.

Aly Liz

09-28-2005, 01:16 AM

Certainly though, those who believe in a God other than the Christian version of Him are free to post and criticize. And there's no reason why agnostics or atheists should not post either; the initial question is directed towards Christians, but that doesn't prohibit others from giving their views.

Yes but it would be nice to know what religion they are when Im talking/posting with them because if i knew then I would have a better understanding of where they come from and what they believe. Its another story with all the scarcasim in here though.

::Major_Baker::

09-28-2005, 10:47 AM

Craig

09-28-2005, 03:28 PM

Yes but it would be nice to know what religion they are when Im talking/posting with them because if i knew then I would have a better understanding of where they come from and what they believe. Its another story with all the scarcasim in here though.

A cynical person might note that if they tell you in advance what faith or lack therof they subscribe to, it will inevitably cause you to become biased in reading their discussions. If you know that someone is a Christian, you will be more inclined to agree with them- regardless of the strengths of their arguments. In contrast, if you know someone's an atheist, there's a pretty good chance you'll simply disregard what they say for no other reason than the fact that you disagree with them. It's a sad state of affairs that we're only inclined to be persuaded by someone when we already have some reason to listen to them in the first place. It is the content of the discussion, and not the individual's faith, that is important.

PurplePig

10-01-2005, 04:08 PM

Cricket

10-01-2005, 10:35 PM

Everything happens for a reason. To those who believe God plays in active role on our daily lives: Why are we being battered by so many acts of God?

God does not cause these events. He does, however, allow them to happen, oftentimes, as man has orchestrated.

God may allow choices at times. Man must choose the path. Man chose to build houses in areas where for so many thousands of years, man would not build houses, out of fear of the wrath of God, or natural events.

Craig

10-02-2005, 01:00 AM

God does not cause these events. He does, however, allow them to happen, oftentimes, as man has orchestrated.

God may allow choices at times. Man must choose the path. Man chose to build houses in areas where for so many thousands of years, man would not build houses, out of fear of the wrath of God, or natural events.

I think it's interesting to note that the idea of man being able to choose was articulated by Thomas Aquinas and another individual whose name escapes me at the moment. St. Augustine's view of the world certainly did not allow for such "niceties". Apparently free will isn't imperative in the Bible, since there have been debates about its existence for centuries (nay, more than a millenia) now.

Aly Liz

10-02-2005, 06:02 PM

I think it's interesting to note that the idea of man being able to choose was articulated by Thomas Aquinas and another individual whose name escapes me at the moment. St. Augustine's view of the world certainly did not allow for such "niceties". Apparently free will isn't imperative in the Bible, since there have been debates about its existence for centuries (nay, more than a millenia) now.

While the Bible purports to be the word of God it is, after all, written by man.

IDK

10-02-2005, 11:47 PM

God does not cause these events. He does, however, allow them to happen, oftentimes, as man has orchestrated.
This must be your personal version of God. The Christian God is the creator of all, therefore he is the creator of hurricanes as well, thus being the cause. This point is irrelevant, though, as the question can simply be reworded, "Why did God allow these hurricanes to occur?"

God may allow choices at times. Man must choose the path. Man chose to build houses in areas where for so many thousands of years, man would not build houses, out of fear of the wrath of God, or natural events.
Population. At some time, if the human race continues to prosper, we will have no choice to but to live in areas prone to natural disaster. Not to mention, when New Orleans was settled in 1718, was it known that the city was being built in a dangerous area? Was the term "hurricane" even coined?

You say that God allows choices "at times." Does he arbitrarily interfere with our decision making capabilities, for his own personal enjoyment? At what times does he decide that, "Heck, they can figure this one out for themselves," or "Uh oh, I better make sure he cuts the green wire."

Man chose to build houses in safe areas for thousands of years.... I'm sorry, but that statement is just plain wrong. Sure, certain cities were probably built in areas with safety in mind, but... well.. ever hear of Pompeii?

heel31ok

10-09-2005, 12:00 PM

This must be your personal version of God. The Christian God is the creator of all, therefore he is the creator of hurricanes as well, thus being the cause. This point is irrelevant, though, as the question can simply be reworded, "Why did God allow these hurricanes to occur?"

Population. At some time, if the human race continues to prosper, we will have no choice to but to live in areas prone to natural disaster. Not to mention, when New Orleans was settled in 1718, was it known that the city was being built in a dangerous area? Was the term "hurricane" even coined?

You say that God allows choices "at times." Does he arbitrarily interfere with our decision making capabilities, for his own personal enjoyment? At what times does he decide that, "Heck, they can figure this one out for themselves," or "Uh oh, I better make sure he cuts the green wire."

Man chose to build houses in safe areas for thousands of years.... I'm sorry, but that statement is just plain wrong. Sure, certain cities were probably built in areas with safety in mind, but... well.. ever hear of Pompeii?
You do not know much about the bible do you?This is more your personal version of God. with your suppositon because God created cherris and cows then he created cherry ice cream. God allows these things to happen because
He is not the legal ruler of this world right now.Dominion was given to man and man handed it over to satan. As for your question about abitrary interference. God must be invited to interfere if you do not want His help He certainly will notimpose on you and you are left to truly random happenings.

We can give God permission to intervene or we can take our chances and go it alone. It is our choice not God's. He already told us what He would do. The plan has been given it is now up to us to accept or reject it. There is more to the plan of God than just saving us from sin and from hell. there is a plan of abundant life on this earth and the fulfillment of His covenant in us to prosper us , to protect us, to provide for us. The bible says that all who are in Christ share in the covenant that god made with Abraham and in Christ all of the promises are yea and amen! Yes, so be it! His promises are for here and now and last throughout eternity.

Duo_Maxwell

10-11-2005, 02:23 PM

Postulate: God is creator of All
Corallary: Hurricanes are God's creations
Outcome: The deaths, damage and suffering caused by the Hurricanes are God's fault
Dependent Outcome: Therefore God murdered those killed by the Hurricanes.
Corallary 2: God is the creator of All, it created evil
Postulate 2: Death and Suffering at the cause of evil
Depedent Outcome 2: Therefore God is evil.

Kong

10-15-2005, 01:42 AM

Perhaps there is some greater, unseen good in all the destruction. I have been told “God works in mysterious ways.”

heel31ok

10-15-2005, 03:42 AM

Perhaps there is some greater, unseen good in all the destruction. I have been told “God works in mysterious ways.”

no good is in the destruction but good can come out of it. But the destruction did not have to happen for good to happen. God did not cause the destruction but can help bring good out of it.

sometimes God may do things we do not understand but I do not hold to the way people use the above quote as an excuse to explain why God made something bad happen. Do not blame God with a tired cliche. God does not need bad things to happen to make good things happen.

Kong

10-15-2005, 03:45 AM

Judging from prior posts I think that some people may disagree with you.

heel31ok

10-15-2005, 03:48 AM

Judging from prior posts I think that some people may disagree with you.
It is not limited to "some".I would have to say the word "most" on this board is more appropriate and accurate. But I wear it like a badge of honor.

Oh yeah we could probably modify your use of the word "may" also.

heel31ok

10-15-2005, 03:49 AM

Judging from prior posts I think that some people may disagree with you.
what about my post would you disagree with?

Kong

10-15-2005, 04:01 AM

I am in a very agreeable mood right now so I choose to agree with you. I do not blame God for anything. To blame God would be ridiculous!

Duo_Maxwell

10-15-2005, 06:27 AM

Heel's belief is inherently illogical. If something is the creator of all, anything bad that is created is therefore its fault.

heel31ok

10-16-2005, 12:15 AM

Heel's belief is inherently illogical. If something is the creator of all, anything bad that is created is therefore its fault.
Not really when the original creation has been changed . If we were in the original state as God created it then you would be right but we are not. The misuse of God's creation and intentions caused the bad, disobedience caused the bad. Sin did not exist until it happened and God did not create it only the possibilityof sin the choice was not His. the choice created it. I know this is hard for you to understand , and I know you do not even want to try but I write it anyway.

anyway my beliefs are inherently logical because they stay within the parameters and scope of that belief. if I went outside my belief to explain it or live it then a chance for illogical conclusion could occur but sense I maintain my beliefs within the framework of the Bible then they are perfectly logical . You only think so because you do not adhere to that framework and my belief does not meet yourpersonal logic. My concern is not in a personal logic from man which is inherently flawed because it can only pertain to the one offering the logic. So in the scope of your own logic you are right but a blanket statement of illogic is false.

Duo_Maxwell

10-16-2005, 01:40 AM

Not really when the original creation has been changed.

Then God is not the creator of all. It is the creator of what was. I'm willing to accept that, are you? The rest of your post assumes something that is not true. Apparently your belief is not the traditional one: God is not the creator of all.

You only think so because you do not adhere to that framework and my belief does not meet yourpersonal logic.

my personal logic? Did you even see the basic corallaries, postulates and dependent outcomes? That isn't my logic. That is logic without any emotions of opinions. If A created all, and all included evil, A created evil. How you are trying to pin that as only mine is really ludacrious.

If my statement is wrong and you do believe in a creator of all, feel free to disprove my set of postulates, corallaries and dependent outcomes. In fact I challenge you to do so.

Simba

10-16-2005, 09:08 AM

Everything happens for a reason. To those who believe God plays in active role on our daily lives: Why are we being battered by so many acts of God?

They are not acts of God.....only events.

God plays an active role if you develope a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit will guide and comfort you through challenges. Buildings will fall, tornadoes will strike, and wars will rage as always. God already knows what path you will choose through all of it.

God allows circumstances on earth, he doesn't create them.

heel31ok

10-17-2005, 01:55 AM

Then God is not the creator of all. It is the creator of what was. I'm willing to accept that, are you? The rest of your post assumes something that is not true. Apparently your belief is not the traditional one: God is not the creator of all.

my personal logic? Did you even see the basic corallaries, postulates and dependent outcomes? That isn't my logic. That is logic without any emotions of opinions. If A created all, and all included evil, A created evil. How you are trying to pin that as only mine is really ludacrious.

If my statement is wrong and you do believe in a creator of all, feel free to disprove my set of postulates, corallaries and dependent outcomes. In fact I challenge you to do so.

Yes i would agree that God is not the creator of all. In the sense that evil came from what God created but it came from a perversion of what he created.He made all things good and choice twisted it for evil.with His creation God gave rules and warnings to man but man did not listen and evil is the result.

As far as your logic it is fraught with emotion , oppinion and presupposition . I am sure you know the rules of logic but you apply them only to a predetermined result. hmm...where have I seen that before? you do not base you logic on the facts ,only the facts as you see them. Therefore it is a personal logic. and therefore only those who subscribe to your presuppositions would ever be declared logical in your oppinion.

The creator of what was? youlost methere. That is not what I said nor can I see how you come to that conclusion. The fact that God did not create evil does not equate to thast statement.

Duo_Maxwell

10-17-2005, 02:10 AM

Yes i would agree that God is not the creator of all.

Fine by me.

As far as your logic it is fraught with emotion , oppinion and presupposition.

Because....

I am sure you know the rules of logic but you apply them only to a predetermined result.

Because....

Therefore it is a personal logic. and therefore only those who subscribe to your presuppositions would ever be declared logical in your oppinion.

Big statement: No supporting facts.

The creator of what was? youlost methere. That is not what I said nor can I see how you come to that conclusion. The fact that God did not create evil does not equate to thast statement.

You just said that God was the creator of what was.

Yes i would agree that God is not the creator of all Did you not just say that?

His creation God gave rules and warnings to man but man did not listen and evil is the result.

What it created and gave is no longer what is. Therefore God is the creator of what was.