Will this man go to heaven?

[::Major_Baker::]

Ok, readers of 'the good book'

Bsed on what you know or think about Christianity, will this man end up in heaven?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/03/funeral.home.slayings.ap/index.html

[towski]

Man, I heard about this guy this morning. When the wheels fly off, the really fly off.

As one of the radio commentators said, sometimes you take a wrong turn in life. Most people head back in the other direction. Some, on the other hand, floor it and head for the nearest lamppost.

As for his going to heaven, from my understanding of religious dogma, no.

Even if he sought forgiveness for the molestations and murders, (cause it's just that easy) he committed suicide. How can you ask forgiveness for a sin after you are dead?

[::Major_Baker::]

Man, I heard about this guy this morning. When the wheels fly off, the really fly off.

As one of the radio commentators said, sometimes you take a wrong turn in life. Most people head back in the other direction. Some, on the other hand, floor it and head for the nearest lamppost.

As for his going to heaven, from my understanding of religious dogma, no.

Even if he sought forgiveness for the molestations and murders, (cause it's just that easy) he committed suicide. How can you ask forgiveness for a sin after you are dead?
ah yes, for got about the suicide thing.

Maybe we should take a right hand turn and discuss institutional sexual repression within the catholic church that results in STUFF LIKE THIS.

[Churlant]

You forgot a "there is no 'heaven'" option :p

-JC

[::Major_Baker::]

You forgot a "there is no 'heaven'" option :p

-JC
:eek: you blasphemous SOB, go get me a beer.
oh wait it's only 9:34 am. A shot of whiskey will do.

[Michele]

i think in accordance with forgiveness: if he seeks absolution and does a proper penace for his actions he too will get to heaven. however, in his case he committed suicide and he didn't seek absolution he saught to cover for other crimes, for which it sounds like the church was already covering for him.

the church should be burnt to the ground and the deacon should go to hell.

[::Major_Baker::]

man, all that work adhering to those crazy rules, never getting laid,(with an adult female anyways) and he ends up in hell. Can't understand the motivation to live such a lame life. Lame of course is only my opinion--.

[Michele]

Can't understand the motivation to live such a lame life.

apparently taking solace in the church is a pedaphilia's dreamland. beyond instant gratification I don't get it has much to do with heaven. If the papel diocese can't be relied upon to control their priests. a church that harbors these creeps should be held accountable and shut down. simple as that. Draconian measures for a draconian institution.

[GI Joe]

You forgot a "there is no 'heaven'" option :p

-JC


exactly

[soundcrd]

"All this running around keeping people from having sex... now I know how the Catholic Church feels. BA-ZING!"

[Redratio1]

As long as he wasn't gay or anything.

[Michele]

not that being gay is bad or anything... even if he was what happened to his vow of celebacy. the catholic church should just change that and make it a rule instead that priests can't be priests unless they are already married. Might be a really quick way of sanctioning gay marriage and we kill two birds with one stone.

than if the married priests opt for hanky panky if they won't call him on pedaphilia perhaps they'll nab him on adultery. I mean really how many chances does the vatican get?

[Djj1973]

I think that the Catholics have relaxed their opinion on Suicide. From my understanding, it is still a sin but the person could be repentent at the last second and ask for Gods forgiveness. Now Is this true? who knows. I would like to think that any person of the cloth that does evil should have a special place in Hell. I hope this guy is there now.

[Redratio1]

I think that the Catholics have relaxed their opinion on Suicide. From my understanding, it is still a sin but the person could be repentent at the last second and ask for Gods forgiveness. Now Is this true? who knows. I would like to think that any person of the cloth that does evil should have a special place in Hell. I hope this guy is there now.

Like asking for forgiveness while you are on the way down from jumping from the 50th floor?

Can I drop a rock on someone from the 50th floor and ask for forgiveness while it is falling?

[cpwill]

Ok, readers of 'the good book'

Bsed on what you know or think about Christianity, will this man end up in heaven?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/03/funeral.home.slayings.ap/index.html

:) only two people know that, and neither of them post here.

[heel31ok]

:) only two people know that, and neither of them post here.
That is right cp.

[Michele]

:) only two people know that, and neither of them post here.

you don't know that for sure.

[Sauniere]

Aww, I was gonna get nasty, but I'm too tired.

Well, you can keep your faith.
Faith don't get you squat until you die.
Then you believe that God will take you into his fold.
And that faith sustains you throughout your life. Or does it?

As a couple of threads have asked members, you can be a horribly evil person, but if you ask for absolution on your deathbed, God will forgive and let you enter into the realm of saints.

While a perfectly honest upright person, who may chose to live their life devoid of recognized religion is viewed as unworthy.

Makes about as much sense as creationism.

[Michele]

Aww, I was gonna get nasty, but I'm too tired.

Well, you can keep your faith.
Faith don't get you squat until you die.
Then you believe that God will take you into his fold.
And that faith sustains you throughout your life. Or does it?

As a couple of threads have asked members, you can be a horribly evil person, but if you ask for absolution on your deathbed, God will forgive and let you enter into the realm of saints.

While a perfectly honest upright person, who may chose to live their life devoid of recognized religion is viewed as unworthy.

Makes about as much sense as creationism.

yes the old while I stab you in the back I ask forgiveness routine.... is just another loophole not for criminals but for the very political powers that helped pull together that bible.

that is why we are stuck with the lesser of two evils. and two wrongs make a right. think about it... it all goes back to that bible both old and new testament. and of course the most powerful lesser evils would have had to have concocted absolution. with cronyism coming in neck and neck.

(with Jesus' teachings just for effect for the real fundamentalist don't really take his teachings to heart anyway)

the hard core fundamentalists would kill jesus again and not give it a second thought because he is not a lesser evil.

this is the world of lesser evils.. that is the highest common denominator.

[DRMIZER]

man, all that work adhering to those crazy rules, never getting laid,(with an adult female anyways) and he ends up in hell. Can't understand the motivation to live such a lame life. Lame of course is only my opinion--.BUMMER!

[Churlant]

Ah well, I'm forced to vote 'no'... not because I don't believe in either redemption or rehabilitation, but simply because there is no Heaven, so it would be kinda hard for him to get there. :)

-JC

[Djj1973]

Like asking for forgiveness while you are on the way down from jumping from the 50th floor?

Can I drop a rock on someone from the 50th floor and ask for forgiveness while it is falling?


You can ask for forgiveness anytime you like. The answer is not always yes.

[jamesrage]

Originally Posted by ::Major_Baker::
ah yes, for got about the suicide thing.

Maybe we should take a right hand turn and discuss institutional sexual repression within the catholic church that results in STUFF LIKE THIS.


If that is the case then why do we not hear about occurances of this screwed up behavior happening in other catholic churches in other countries.I think when it comes to religious commitment most Americans are weak.

[JustinH]

:) only two people know that, and neither of them post here.

Scott Adams and Jon Stewart?

[freckled fanny]

"Scott Adams and Jon Stewart?"

No. Regis and Kelly.

[Simba]

Ok, readers of 'the good book'

Bsed on what you know or think about Christianity, will this man end up in heaven?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/03/funeral.home.slayings.ap/index.html

Only God can answer that.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Yes, if he accepts Christ and abandons his former life.

But then again...a mass murderer could do it as well. Another reason I don't like Christanity.

[heel31ok]

Yes, if he accepts Christ and abandons his former life.

But then again...a mass murderer could do it as well. Another reason I don't like Christanity.


yeah that whole forgiveness thing is whack, how dare God do that!

You have to draw the line somewhere. Another reason why I like christianity.

[Duo_Maxwell]

yeah that whole forgiveness thing is whack, how dare God do that!

You have to draw the line somewhere. Another reason why I like christianity.

Fine by me. I'd rather not be in a heaven full of mass murders, peodophiles, rapists, and a assortment of horrible people who at the last second, did the 3 step process to be saved.

[heel31ok]

Fine by me. I'd rather not be in a heaven full of mass murders, peodophiles, rapists, and a assortment of horrible people who at the last second, did the 3 step process to be saved.heaven will only be full of saints and the beloved of God.If You would not want to be in heaven with the forgiven then what would you find in the alternative! I am sure in your mind it is a noble idea you have about this but it makes no sense.

[Duo_Maxwell]

heaven will only be full of saints and the beloved of God.If You would not want to be in heaven with the forgiven then what would you find in the alternative! I am sure in your mind it is a noble idea you have about this but it makes no sense.

I'd rather be in a place where those who were rewarded were rewarded for a life time of good service, duty and noble actions, that of course doesn't mean they were pure, but they realized long ago what they must do and that the last minute song and dance isn't what will get them in. Not doing the little dance and song to get into heaven after mudering thousands of people. But if you want a heaven full of horrible people, fine by me.

[heel31ok]

I'd rather be in a place where those who were rewarded were rewarded for a life time of good service, duty and noble actions, that of course doesn't mean they were pure, but they realized long ago what they must do and that the last minute song and dance isn't what will get them in. Not doing the little dance and song to get into heaven after mudering thousands of people. But if you want a heaven full of horrible people, fine by me.


there is no such place ! Heaven is not a zero sum situation in that if there are some who get in at the lastminute it does not take away from anyone else. all those who will be in heaven will not be what you say because when a person is born again/saved whatever you want to call it, they become a new creation and the old things pass away. Salvation and rewards are also
two separate matters. Salvation determines you destination and rewards are what you receive when you get there.Salvation is the same for all who receive it, rewards are for what was done.
I say this of course in the context of what the Bible says and my belief in it. If we all got what we deserved then nobody would be there.I stilldo not understand how you can think that there will be another place for people who reject Christ and yet lived a "good" life.

Please share with me where that place is or will be!

[Duo_Maxwell]

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

Nor do I want to. A Heaven that accepts mass murders is ridiculous, and a Heaven that rejects noble secularists is ridiculous as well. Kharama is far more of a appealing belief. Your past life has consequences of your present life.

If you murdered 10 million people in cold blood but did the little jig at the last second, you're saved, but if you spent your whole life in the service of Good but did not believe, you're condemned.

Makes no sense to me at all.

[heel31ok]

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

Nor do I want to. A Heaven that accepts mass murders is ridiculous, and a Heaven that rejects noble secularists is ridiculous as well. Kharama is far more of a appealing belief. Your past life has consequences of your present life.

If you murdered 10 million people in cold blood but did the little jig at the last second, you're saved, but if you spent your whole life in the service of Good but did not believe, you're condemned.

Makes no sense to me at all.
Repentence is not invalidated by how how much bad you have done,it invalidates how much bad you have done.

The glass is not half empty,God's forgiveness is powerful enough to cover any sin. You are saying there should be a limit on his forgiveness.The forgiveness and acceptance of God are available to all who will recieve it. All people are one repentance away from God.All have equal opportunity .
But it takes/took more than a "little jig " to be saved.
The key to your good man example is not the good he did but the rejection of Christ.This rejection is sin and all the good one does besides that cannot take it away. once a man says something he cannot take it back it has been spoken forever. He cannot say more words to take it away. This is the same with sin .once it is committed nothing we do can uncommit it. a man can devote his whole life to good yet it is not enough to take away one bad.Salvation is not from works , it is not a scorekeeping issue.

So do you not believe in heaven or Hell because of its admission policy?

[Duo_Maxwell]

I don't believe in Heaven and Hell because it is a primary motivation based upon self servings needs, not caring or alturistism. Not to mention that the basis of Christanity is fear. Not the kind of religion I want.

You just admitted my point. Repenting invalidates a life of murder, theft, rape, etc, etc et. One little dance and song and bam, your mass execution of 500 people is suddenly forgiven along with your chopping off the heads of 5000 innocent people while mowing down another 1000 with machine guns and running over another 50 with cars. Sorry, Homie don't play that game.

That's another reason why I don't accept your religion. A lifetime of good condemns a non-believer yet one song and dance saves a mass murderer of billions. Sick. That's just sick.

Your belief doesn't encourage a good life, it merely encourages the song and dance at the end. You could be the worst person ever to live in this universe but you're saved. You could be the best, most noble, caring, alturistic person ever in the universe, but you're condemned if you don't believe.

That's absolute bull****.

[Kong]

Based on what I know about Christianity I think this SOB will fit in well with many other Christians wherever he ends up. Is it what you do or what you believe that counts?

I agree with Duo_Maxwell.

Silly Christians! :p

[heel31ok]

Based on what I know about Christianity I think this SOB will fit in well with many other Christians wherever he ends up. Is it what you do or what you believe that counts?

I agree with Duo_Maxwell.

Silly Christians! :p
Well both you and duo have something in common. You do not know much about christianity.

[Kong]

So is it what you do or what you believe that counts in the end, at that final moment of death or is it something else?

[heel31ok]

So is it what you do or what you believe that counts in the end, at that final moment of death or is it something else?
It is 2 different things. Salvation comes from what you believe, specifically that Christ is the savior and substitute for your sins.What you do has to do with rewards here and in eternity.This only comes into play after salvation. Also salvation puts you in the place to be what God intended for you to be and to truly fulfill your destiny. A deathbed conversion gets you in heaven but illustrates a wasted life.
in a way it is what you do for salvation in that you have to believe and call upon the name of the lord. But it is not what you do like good works.

[Duo_Maxwell]

Well both you and duo have something in common. You do not know much about christianity.

On the contrary, it is you who do not know much. Which christian belief? Calvanism clearly holds a different belief then you. orthodox Protestianism to a degree as well.

Your belief states that no matter what you do in life, all that matters is your moment of repetence.