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Breathless
04-02-2006, 10:26 AM
The Art of War for the anti-war movement
Posted by Scott Ritter at 6:13 PM on March 31, 2006.

It's high time to recognize that we as a nation are engaged in a life-or-death struggle of competing ideologies with those who promote war as an American value and virtue.


In the months leading up to the invasion of Iraq by a US-led coalition, and for three years since, I have spent many hours speaking to numerous anti-war forums across the country and around the world. I have always been struck by the sincerity of the vast majority of those who call themselves anti-war, and impressed by their willingness to give so much of themselves in the service of such a noble cause.

Whether participating in demonstrations, organizing a vigil, conducting town-hall meetings, or writing letters to their elected officials and the media, the participants in the anti-war movement have exhibited an energy and integrity that would make anyone proud. For myself, I have been vociferous in my defense of the actions of the majority of the anti-war movement, noting that the expression of their views is not only consistent with their rights afforded by the Constitution of the United States, but also that their engagement in the process of citizenship is a stellar example of the ideals and values set forth in that document, and as such representative of the highest form of patriotism in keeping with service to a document that begins, "We the People."

Lately I have noticed a growing despondency among many of those who call themselves the anti-war movement. With the United States now entering its fourth year of illegal war in and illegitimate occupation of Iraq, and the pro-war movement moving inexorably towards yet another disastrous conflict with Iran, there is an increasing awareness that the cause of the anti-war movement, no matter how noble and worthy, is in fact a losing cause as currently executed. Despite all of the well-meaning and patriotic work of the millions of activists and citizens who comprise the anti-war movement, America still remains very much a nation not only engaged in waging and planning wars of aggression, but has also become a nation which increasingly identifies itself through its military and the wars it fights. This is a sad manifestation of the fact that the American people seem to be addicted to war and violence, rather than the ideals of human rights, individual liberty, and freedom and justice for all that should define our nation.

In short, the anti-war movement has come face to face with the reality that in the ongoing war of ideologies that is being waged in America today, their cause is not just losing, but is in fact on the verge of complete collapse. Many in the anti-war movement would take exception to such a characterization of the situation, given the fact that there seems to be a growing change in the mood among Americans against the ongoing war in Iraq. But one only has to scratch at the surface of this public discontent to realize how shallow and superficial it is. Americans aren't against the war in Iraq because it is wrong; they are against it because we are losing.

Take the example of Congressman Jack Murtha. A vocal supporter of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq, last fall Mr. Murtha went public with his dramatic change of position, suddenly rejecting the war as un-winnable, and demanding the immediate withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. While laudable, I have serious problems with Jack Murtha's thought process here. At what point did the American invasion of Iraq become a bad war? When we suffered 2,000 dead? After two years of fruitless struggle? Once we spent $100 billion?

While vocalizing his current opposition against the Iraq War, Congressman Murtha and others who voted for the war but now question its merits have never retracted their original pro-war stance. Nor have they criticized their role in abrogating the Constitutional processes for bringing our country into conflict when they voted for a war before the President had publicly committed to going to war (we now know the President had committed to the invasion of Iraq by the summer of 2002, and that all his representations to the American people and Congress about 'war as a matter of last resort' and 'seeking a diplomatic solution' were bold face lies). The Iraq War was wrong the moment we started bombing Iraq. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein is no excuse, and does not pardon America's collective sin of brooking and tolerating an illegal war of aggression.

The reality is, had our military prevailed in this struggle, the American people for the most part would not even blink at the moral and legal arguments against this war. This underlying reality is reflected in the fact that despite our ongoing disaster in Iraq, America is propelled down a course of action that leads us toward conflict with Iran. President Bush recently re-affirmed his embrace of the principles of pre-emptive war when he signed off on the 2006 version of the National Security Strategy of the United States, which highlights Iran as a threat worthy of confrontation. This event has gone virtually unmentioned by the American mainstream media, un-remarked by a Congress that remains complicit in the war-mongering policies of the Bush administration, and un-noticed by the majority of Americans. America is pre-programmed for war, and unless the anti-war movement dramatically changes the manner in which it conducts its struggle, America will become a nation of war, for war, and defined by war, and as such a nation that will ultimately be consumed by war.

Full Article Here (http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/34332/#comments)

Mike1977
04-04-2006, 10:05 PM
I will say I am supprised at the lack of interest in this post. (could be the article is so long).

But here is my 2 cents...

We were at war before the 2004 elections. George Bush was elected with the country knowing what he stood for (and what he already did). The majority of the country was not part of the anti war movement. "We the People" elected a president that had already brought us to war.

I love the fact that anti war people are free to voice their opinions. I just hope they recognize that they have that freedom due to people that have an opposing view.

bowerbird
04-04-2006, 10:11 PM
I HATE it when anti-war people like myself (I am an avowed pacifist) are charged with that accusation. Puhleese!! We are well aware that you have to fight for freedom - we just don't believe you have to shatter the lives of so many many people to do so.

Those who are pro-war seldom seem to be able to fully acknowledge the human cost of war. I think though, that is because it rarely relates to them. They have no concept of just how traumatic on so, so many levels it is for those who are actually within the theatre of war.

billygardener
04-04-2006, 10:12 PM
i dont find war to be virtue . . . that doesn't mean it is never necessary.

Mike1977
04-04-2006, 10:25 PM
Those who are pro-war seldom seem to be able to fully acknowledge the human cost of war.

I believe those who are anti-war seldom seem to be able to fully acknowledge the human cost of NOT going to war.

cpwill
04-04-2006, 10:26 PM
strictly speaking, pacifists do depend utterly on the willingness of non-pacifists to protect their rights.

In short, the anti-war movement has come face to face with the reality that in the ongoing war of ideologies that is being waged in America today, their cause is not just losing, but is in fact on the verge of complete collapse. Many in the anti-war movement would take exception to such a characterization of the situation, given the fact that there seems to be a growing change in the mood among Americans against the ongoing war in Iraq. But one only has to scratch at the surface of this public discontent to realize how shallow and superficial it is. Americans aren't against the war in Iraq because it is wrong; they are against it because we are losing.

i think that's about it in a nutshell.

Nuke the Oil
04-05-2006, 11:47 PM
strictly speaking, pacifists do depend utterly on the willingness of non-pacifists to protect their rights.

In short, the anti-war movement has come face to face with the reality that in the ongoing war of ideologies that is being waged in America today, their cause is not just losing, but is in fact on the verge of complete collapse. Many in the anti-war movement would take exception to such a characterization of the situation, given the fact that there seems to be a growing change in the mood among Americans against the ongoing war in Iraq. But one only has to scratch at the surface of this public discontent to realize how shallow and superficial it is. Americans aren't against the war in Iraq because it is wrong; they are against it because we are losing.

i think that's about it in a nutshell.

Even more strictly speaking, pacifists depend on the unwillingness or inability of non-pacifists to take away their rights...

Ophelia
04-06-2006, 04:28 PM
My opposition to the immoral, illegal war against Iraq does not make me a strict pacifist. There are times when self-defense is necessary, since we do not live in a world full of Ghandis. That said, Mr. Ritter hits it right on the head when he says that we have become a nation addicted to war and militarism, and that addiction will destroy us. I don't expect the war hawks to respect my views. I know they wish that those like me would just shut up and go away. I don't even expect to win a debate over it -- not living in a rogue nation bent on self-destruction. I no longer care. What's right is right, what's wrong is wrong -- and this war, in every way, is wrong. And I will continue to speak out.

nogoodname90
04-07-2006, 12:27 AM
i dont find war to be virtue . . . that doesn't mean it is never necessary.
how was it necessary to go to iraq? :confused:

Mike1977
04-09-2006, 05:25 PM
how was it necessary to go to iraq? :confused:

It wasn't necessary to join world war 2. Well until pearl harbor.

It wasn't necessary to go after the Taliban after the USS Cole was bombed. Well, until 9/11.

History will repeat itself. If we don't take the information we have and act on it we will keep getting attacked. Time to start looking at North Korea and Iran.

Tuatara
04-09-2006, 07:05 PM
It wasn't necessary to go after the Taliban after the USS Cole was bombed. Well, until 9/11.

History will repeat itself. If we don't take the information we have and act on it we will keep getting attacked. Time to start looking at North Korea and Iran.The Taliban were not responsible for the attack on the USS Cole. The US bombed Sudan and Afghanistan after the US Cole bombing. Perhaps 911 was partly in response to those bombings. The cycle of viloence continues.

The_Penguin
04-15-2006, 01:35 AM
Even more strictly speaking, pacifists depend on the unwillingness or inability of non-pacifists to take away their rights...
And what do you think happens when a third entity tries to screw the pacifists?

The_Penguin
04-15-2006, 01:36 AM
strictly speaking, pacifists do depend utterly on the willingness of non-pacifists to protect their rights.

In short, the anti-war movement has come face to face with the reality that in the ongoing war of ideologies that is being waged in America today, their cause is not just losing, but is in fact on the verge of complete collapse. Many in the anti-war movement would take exception to such a characterization of the situation, given the fact that there seems to be a growing change in the mood among Americans against the ongoing war in Iraq. But one only has to scratch at the surface of this public discontent to realize how shallow and superficial it is. Americans aren't against the war in Iraq because it is wrong; they are against it because we are losing.

i think that's about it in a nutshell.
Ok, this (http://web.mit.edu/rafal/www/German2/hefeweizen.jpg) is the last beer I'm giving out tonight, enjoy.

MikeD4o7
04-16-2006, 09:46 PM
The problem with war is that it's seen as just another move on the chessboard. Just another tool in the toolbox to deal with international issues. If anything, it seems like we almost put war itself in a positive light instead of a negative one... and that just completely blows my mind.

JD3
04-16-2006, 11:16 PM
strictly speaking, pacifists do depend utterly on the willingness of non-pacifists to protect their rights.

In short, the anti-war movement has come face to face with the reality that in the ongoing war of ideologies that is being waged in America today, their cause is not just losing, but is in fact on the verge of complete collapse. Many in the anti-war movement would take exception to such a characterization of the situation, given the fact that there seems to be a growing change in the mood among Americans against the ongoing war in Iraq. But one only has to scratch at the surface of this public discontent to realize how shallow and superficial it is. Americans aren't against the war in Iraq because it is wrong; they are against it because we are losing.

i think that's about it in a nutshell.


I am not a pacifist but I respect pacifist. And historically, they have depended on no one. Ghandi did not have an army come and protect him. Neither did Christ or MLK. With a bare minmum loss of life, they changed the world for the better.

I believe war is at times neccessary, but not always neccessary and not neccessary just because someone says or thinks it is neccessary.

Above someone asked about Iraq, a war that was not neccessary, but insted of that debate, again (something I game for if some one insists), how about we discuss what makes war neccessary? When is an objective worth 10's of thousands of lives?

cpwill
04-17-2006, 12:58 PM
Even more strictly speaking, pacifists depend on the unwillingness or inability of non-pacifists to take away their rights...

:p doesn't take much to take away the rights of a pacifist.

cpwill
04-17-2006, 01:01 PM
I am not a pacifist but I respect pacifist. And historically, they have depended on no one.

actually historically they depend upon the protection afforded them by a liberal society created by violence.

Ghandi did not have an army come and protect him.

no, he depended instead upon the civility of the British Army and the sympathy of the Press. compare, if you like, his success with the success of the demonstrators in Tianamen Square, or those who were even suspected of being anti-regime in any number of non-liberal democracies around the world (1930's Russia comes to mind, as does Cambodia) ditto's for MLK, and Christ was many things, but him being an avowed pacifist we have no record of.

how about we discuss what makes war neccessary? When is an objective worth 10's of thousands of lives?

tricky question, and i would pose as a caveat that in order for a war to be the correct decision, it does not neccessarily have to be neccessary.