who killed jesus?

[Tony_Blair]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?

[Ethos]

The answer is going to depend on how one defines ultimate responsibility.

Eventually one could make the argument that God killed Jesus. Others could break it down to humanity, others to specific segments of humanity (Romans, etc), or Judas.

In another definition you could say Jesus killed himself.

Ethos

[Sgt Schultz]

There are some who believe that Jesus did not actually even exist.

[mataj]

That guy interfered with ME politics a bit too much, and screwed himself up, that's all.

[Your_Embryo]

what does it matter to unbelievers? Keep your speculations to yourself.

[ROOK]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?

I heard it was a conspiracy between the Roman Government and the Jewish Mafia. :D Either way you have to admit dying on the cross is what really gave the guy the break his career needed, just imagine if he'd lived to a ripe, old age and died in his sleep, no one today would have ever heard of him. ;)

[Your_Embryo]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?


youre a smart guy. Why hear it from a third party? Go read it in the most respected record of it, the Bible.

[prst31]

Elvis.

[ROOK]

Elvis.

I don't know where you get your information prst but it was Jesus that had Elvis whacked and made it look like natural causes (apparently it was professional jealousy). Although from what I understand they've reconciled and now regularly hang out together at pool halls in downtown Milwaukee. :D

[Your_Embryo]

It was all of you that now make fun of it.

[ROOK]

It was all of you that now make fun of it.


Hey man, I don't know about any of these other yahoos, but personally I only arranged for the financing of the hit, it's not like I hammered in the nails or anything. :shrug:

[Your_Embryo]

Hey man, I don't know about any of these other yahoos, but personally I only arranged for the financing of the hit, it's not like I hammered in the nails or anything. :shrug:

We'll let Him be the judge of that when you pass on.

[prst31]

It was all of you that now make fun of it.Just to clarify, the fun poking is not at Killing Jesus but at such a seemingly silly question.

[prst31]

I don't know where you get your information prst but it was Jesus that had Elvis whacked and made it look like natural causes (apparently it was professional jealousy). Although from what I understand they've reconciled and now regularly hang out together at pool halls in downtown Milwaukee. :DSex, Drugs and Rock and Roll baby. Thank you...Thank you very much. :)

[ROOK]

We'll let Him be the judge of that when you pass on.

Who's "We'll" ? and Who's "Him"?

Not to mention I have a very good attorney on retainer that I plan on taking with me when I go (along with all my money and my nifty laptop), so it's all good. :)

[ROOK]

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll baby. Thank you...Thank you very much. :)

LOL, well it's nice to be appreciated for a change, after all I worked really hard on bringing that whole Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll concept to humanity.... BTW Version 2.1 of SD & RR is in the works, should be released around the same time as Microsoft Vista. :D

[Art of War]

I did.... I grew bored with him.

[Sauniere]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?

hate to burst your bubble, but no one did
it was all a grand hoax to allow him to get the hell out of town
Mary, pregnant with his child, and others went to France
while Jesus went east to begat more philosophizing

[sub_zer0]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?

Jesus knew full well His life was to be ended exactly the way it did, don't get all bent up on who killed Him, know that He died for you and raised the third day.

[Sauniere]

Jesus knew full well His life was to be ended exactly the way it did, don't get all bent up on who killed Him, know that He died for you and raised the third day.

to read what you write is like reading a faery tale
Angels, miracles, people rising from the dead
I wouldn't believe that stuff if I saw it person
it would all be some Houdini trick
using Holmesian logic, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." (http://www.clavius.org/holmes.html)

I have eliminated the impossible, which is a man, Jesus, a Jew of noble descent, rose from the dead after three days.

What remains is either he died on the cross, or he did not.

Know that the fallacies you believe today are the product of the Nicene Council of A.D. 325 (http://www.letusreason.org/Trin13.htm).

The doctrines expounded to the Christian World today were created by this council three centuries after Christ. They are not the words of God, and probably not even the words of Jesus; they were the words of men, who decided Mary Magdalene is a prostitute, decided which gospels would become the official ones, and which would become the Apocrypha.

I believe in a Supreme Being, don't get me wrong, but to believe in the made up stories of mankind is no way to walk through life.

Believe in the teachings and the moralities, but use your own brain to investigate the mysteries that surround you.

Do not bury yourself in the fables created at a time when people had no other means to explain the world around them.

OK, I'm done.

[Izdaari]

The story is pretty clear about which humans were most responsible: Caiaphas, Annas and perhaps other unnamed leaders of the Sanhedrin, who thought up the idea; Judas, who identified Jesus for the temple cops; and the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, who ordered the execution.

If you want a more metaphysical answer, you'd first have to believe Jesus was who he claimed to be, or the answer would be meaningless to you. And that answer is us: All of the human race. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Jesus had to die on the cross because all humans are flawed, and God didn't want to trash us and start over. For some strange reason He likes us. And, as I said, unless you believe, that answer is silly. And if you do believe? Than you probably already knew it.

[Sauniere]

The story is pretty clear about which humans were most responsible: Caiaphas, Annas and perhaps other unnamed leaders of the Sanhedrin, who thought up the idea; Judas, who identified Jesus for the temple cops; and the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, who ordered the execution.

If you want a more metaphysical answer, you'd first have to believe Jesus was who he claimed to be, or the answer would be meaningless to you.

Again, I must interject that Jesus never presented himself as the son of God.
Those denouements came courtesy of the Nicene Council, which created the godly Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Before then it never existed.

[Izdaari]

Again, I must interject that Jesus never presented himself as the son of God.
Those denouements came courtesy of the Nicene Council, which created the godly Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Before then it never existed.We could debate that, but it's a separate question. And either way, it doesn't change the truth of what I said: Either Jesus was the Son of God, who died for our sins, or he wasn't. If he wasn't, no metaphysical answer as to why he died on the cross is necessary; it would've been just another philosopher getting snuffed for reasons of politics, because he was inconvenient to the power structure, just like Socrates, and there's no need to take it further.

[Sauniere]

We could debate that, but it's a separate question. And either way, it doesn't change the truth of what I said: Either Jesus was the Son of God, who died for our sins, or he wasn't. If he wasn't, no metaphysical answer as to why he died on the cross is necessary; it would've been just another philosopher getting snuffed for reasons of politics, because he was inconvenient to the power structure, just like Socrates, and there's no need to take it further.

I agree; and thank you for clarifying; for those who believe it all boils down to "faith," faith that I am unable to partake.

[mataj]

what does it matter to unbelievers?It matters because you posted it here.
Keep your speculations to yourself.It's not speculation, it's the truth. It's the truth, because I believe it.

[Sgt Schultz]

what does it matter to unbelievers? Keep your speculations to yourself.

Someone asked a question and we answered. There was no qualifier that only "believers" were to answer.

[Dangerrmouse]

It wasn't me!

[sub_zer0]

It wasn't me!

Indeed it wasn't, you just reject Him even though He died for you.

[Dangerrmouse]

Indeed it wasn't, you just reject Him even though He died for you.

In your mind, but not mine.

[Cedars]

Again, I must interject that Jesus never presented himself as the son of God.
Those denouements came courtesy of the Nicene Council, which created the godly Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Before then it never existed.
On the contrary. Jesus not only presented Himself as the Son of God, but He also presented Himself AS God! Consider the following:

It is established in the O.T. that God’s name is “I AM.”
Exodus 3:13-15: Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' " God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.”

And it is established that man is not to misuse the name of the Lord:
Deuteronomy 5:11: You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

Yet Jesus knowingly identified Himself as “I AM,” which is the name of God. Notice that Jesus hid Himself when they “picked up stones to stone him.” Obviously, the Jews understood Christ to be calling Himself God. He used the divine name, “I AM.”
John 8:52-59: At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

St. Thomas (the “doubter”) finally comes to believe in the Resurrection of Christ when he directly identifies Christ as God.
John 20:26-28: A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

In Matthew 2:1-11 are several mentions of the Wise Men worshipping the Christ Child.

Matthew 4:5-7 “Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a
stone.'"
“Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’"

Matthew 28:18-19: “Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

[neo of the mind]

This guy might have something to do with it.

Gen 3:15

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Luke 22:3

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
KJV

[Mickey Shane]

This guy might have something to do with it.

Gen 3:15

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Luke 22:3

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
KJV
Some people believe that it was Jesus' twin brother Thomas that was crucified. Jesus went into hiding and died of old age.

Read the Gospel of Thomas from the Nag Hammadi jars.

[Dangerrmouse]

Goddidit.

[Sgt Schultz]

Goddidit.

Then it was suicide?

[neo of the mind]

Then it was suicide?

No, it was not suicide. Read the New Testament and you will find out for yourself.

[mataj]

Then it was suicide?Sort of. God killed Himself, by Himself, in order to save us from Himself. You know, Holy Trinity, 1+1+1=3, and all that.

[Michele]

There are some who believe that Jesus did not actually even exist.

Jesus was a spiritual and political leader of great renown. The sick came from miles around to seek his miraculous healing powers. At the height of his popularity, he triumphantly entered Jerusalem with his followers, appeared to declare himself the Messiah, violently disrupted the business of the temple, and, after being tried by Pontius Pilate himself, was put to death as a revolutionary.

Given these facts, Jesus would have been one of the most remarkable figures in Palestine. Yet not one historian of the time thought that this man was important enough to note, even in passing.

In fact, there were not even any Gospel accounts for years following the supposed death of Jesus.

How many years? View the Clip (http://www.thegodmovie.com/clip-TheGap.php) ...

[Michele]

to read what you write is like reading a faery tale
Angels, miracles, people rising from the dead
I wouldn't believe that stuff if I saw it person
it would all be some Houdini trick
using Holmesian logic, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." (http://www.clavius.org/holmes.html)

I have eliminated the impossible, which is a man, Jesus, a Jew of noble descent, rose from the dead after three days.

What remains is either he died on the cross, or he did not.

Know that the fallacies you believe today are the product of the Nicene Council of A.D. 325 (http://www.letusreason.org/Trin13.htm).

The doctrines expounded to the Christian World today were created by this council three centuries after Christ. They are not the words of God, and probably not even the words of Jesus; they were the words of men, who decided Mary Magdalene is a prostitute, decided which gospels would become the official ones, and which would become the Apocrypha.

I believe in a Supreme Being, don't get me wrong, but to believe in the made up stories of mankind is no way to walk through life.

Believe in the teachings and the moralities, but use your own brain to investigate the mysteries that surround you.

Do not bury yourself in the fables created at a time when people had no other means to explain the world around them.

OK, I'm done.

I so far have gotten this far in the thread and by far yours is the most interesting post in the thread so far. Thank you.

[Sauniere]

I so far have gotten this far in the thread and by far yours is the most interesting post in the thread so far. Thank you.

Thank you... :o I am truly humbled.

True Catholics know all this crap. They know their history and are actually more enlightened, much more enlightened, than Evangelical Christians.

Any person who would believe the words on a page come from God's mouth or Jesus's, are religious fanatics, and do not care to use their brains one iota.

Be smart, question reality; don't follow anyone's advice automatically. Use your brain, read, think, postulate, and define your own world. You control your own destiny. Nothing is pre-ordained. Believe in yourself and your ability to make a difference!

[neo of the mind]

Thank you... :o I am truly humbled.

True Catholics know all this crap. They know their history and are actually more enlightened, much more enlightened, than Evangelical Christians.

Any person who would believe the words on a page come from God's mouth or Jesus's, are religious fanatics, and do not care to use their brains one iota.

Be smart, question reality; don't follow anyone's advice automatically. Use your brain, read, think, postulate, and define your own world. You control your own destiny. Nothing is pre-ordained. Believe in yourself and your ability to make a difference!

You seriously want us to think that you are a Catholic? Let's see, last time I checked, Catholics believed Jesus was the Son of God and that he rose from the dead after 3 days and that the Bible is in fact the words of God. I don't know what you are, but your not Catholic, to say otherwise is absurd.

[Cedars]

to read what you write is like reading a faery tale
Angels, miracles, people rising from the dead
I wouldn't believe that stuff if I saw it person
it would all be some Houdini trick
using Holmesian logic, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." (http://www.clavius.org/holmes.html)

I have eliminated the impossible, which is a man, Jesus, a Jew of noble descent, rose from the dead after three days.

What remains is either he died on the cross, or he did not.
Is it impossible for an omnipotent God to become man, to take on man’s nature and raise it up so that we might live? Of course not. If God can create the world and man (and give the world seasons for living and dying and give man a time to live and a time to die), then it is not impossible that God can create angels or perform miracles – after all, the Creator understands what it is that the Creator created. Therefore, it is not impossible for God to become man, namely Jesus. And it is not impossible for Jesus, then, who is God incarnate, to rise from the dead.

[Cedars]

Know that the fallacies you believe today are the product of the Nicene Council of A.D. 325 (http://www.letusreason.org/Trin13.htm).

The doctrines expounded to the Christian World today were created by this council three centuries after Christ. They are not the words of God, and probably not even the words of Jesus; they were the words of men, who decided Mary Magdalene is a prostitute, decided which gospels would become the official ones, and which would become the Apocrypha.
It is a fallacy to believe that the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity was not believed until the Nicene Council. Christians have believed in the divinity of Jesus LONG BEFORE the Nicene Council in 325 A.D. (And as I pointed out in post #30, Jesus DID present Himself as God.)

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid., 18:2).
"[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is" (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

Aristides

"[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit" (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

Tatian the Syrian

"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

Melito of Sardis

"It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages" (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth . . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth" (ibid., 3:19:1).

Clement of Alexandria

"The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things" (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).
"Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son" (ibid., 10:110:1).

Tertullian

"The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born" (The Flesh of Christ 5:6–7 [A.D. 210]).
"That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord" (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).

Origen

"Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).

[Cedars]

(cont.)

Hippolytus

"Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God" (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).

Hippolytus of Rome

"For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new" (ibid., 10:34).

Novatian

"If Christ was only man, why did he lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which he said, ‘And this is life eternal, that they should know you, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent?’ [John 17:3]. Had he not wished that he also should be understood to be God, why did he add, ‘And Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ except because he wished to be received as God also? Because if he had not wished to be understood to be God, he would have added, ‘And the man Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent;’ but, in fact, he neither added this, nor did Christ deliver himself to us as man only, but associated himself with God, as he wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as he is. We must therefore believe, according to the rule prescribed, on the Lord, the one true God, and consequently on him whom he has sent, Jesus Christ, who by no means, as we have said, would have linked himself to the Father had he not wished to be understood to be God also. For he would have separated himself from him had he not wished to be understood to be God" (Treatise on the Trinity 16 [A.D. 235]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit] . . . " (Letters 73:12 [A.D. 253]).

Gregory the Wonderworker

"There is one God, the Father of the living Word, who is his subsistent wisdom and power and eternal image: perfect begetter of the perfect begotten, Father of the only-begotten Son. There is one Lord, only of the only, God of God, image and likeness of deity, efficient Word, wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, invisible of invisible, and incorruptible of incorruptible, and immortal of immortal and eternal of eternal. . . . And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever" (Declaration of Faith [A.D. 265]).

Arnobius

"‘Well, then,’ some raging, angry, and excited man will say, ‘is that Christ your God?’ ‘God indeed,’ we shall answer, ‘and God of the hidden powers’" (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).

Lactantius

"He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh, that is, both God and man" (Divine Institutes 4:13:5 [A.D. 307]).
"We, on the other hand, are [truly] religious, who make our supplications to the one true God. Someone may perhaps ask how, when we say that we worship one God only, we nevertheless assert that there are two, God the Father and God the Son—which assertion has driven many into the greatest error . . . [thinking] that we confess that there is another God, and that he is mortal. . . . [But w]hen we speak of God the Father and God the Son, we do not speak of them as different, nor do we separate each, because the Father cannot exist without the Son, nor can the Son be separated from the Father" (ibid., 4:28–29).

(end)

[Cedars]

True Catholics know all this crap. They know their history and are actually more enlightened, much more enlightened, than Evangelical Christians.

Any person who would believe the words on a page come from God's mouth or Jesus's, are religious fanatics, and do not care to use their brains one iota.

Be smart, question reality; don't follow anyone's advice automatically. Use your brain, read, think, postulate, and define your own world. You control your own destiny. Nothing is pre-ordained. Believe in yourself and your ability to make a difference!
Sauniere, judging from your responses, I wouldn’t be surprised if you (erroneously) accept “The DaVinci Code” as truth, or even portions of it. If I recall correctly, even your handle (Sauniere) is a character from that book? That book is based on fiction, not fact – and many of the “facts” that it does rely on are in error. What is interesting is that though you may not accept that Christ is God, “The DaVinci Code” would have you believe that Mary Magdalene should be worshipped as a goddess!

Catholics DO believe that scripture is inspired by God – you are wrong to say otherwise. Brown’s book not only misrepresents the Catholic Church as a murderous institution but it also implies that the Christian faith itself is utterly false. Any Catholic (or other Christian, for that matter) who knows his/her stuff does not believe the “crap” that comes from Brown’s book or its like.

Brown’s bibliography represents “works of New Age speculation that run counter to established history, focus on alleged secret societies and conspiracy theories, attempt to reinterpret the Christian faith, and are imbued with radical feminist agendas. Historians and religious scholars do not take these works seriously.” Brown’s acknowledgment page listed extensive thanks to many “sources,” including “Catholic World News,” yet “Catholic World News” has no record of Brown’s ever contacting them (they said it was likely he visited their website). “Certainly we never did any research for him or answered any questions from him.” (http://www.catholic.com/library/cracking_da_vinci_code.asp)

[Amfortas]

Ok, Ok, enough torturing me with the questions , the looks ...I confess , I did it ...

I DID IT !

[Cedars]

Some people believe that it was Jesus' twin brother Thomas that was crucified. Jesus went into hiding and died of old age.

Read the Gospel of Thomas from the Nag Hammadi jars.
The twin brother is a new one on me – I hadn’t heard that one before, but it’s not surprising considering the source (the Nag Hammadi). The Nag Hammadi are Gnostic texts which have much similarities to the New Age movements. Gnosticism rejects the divinity of Christ. The apostles seemed to have contended with a form of Gnosticism – they refuted it:

Col. 2:8:
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

1 John 4:1-3:
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

1 Tim. 6:20-21:
Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge [gnosis]. By professing it some people have deviated from the faith.

[neo of the mind]

WOW, I find it very awkward, on a deep level, that there are people that can jest about the death of Jesus, like it's some big joke. If there was even the slightest possibility that those who mock his death, could conceive that they are wrong and that Jesus is God, THEIR creator, would they not be horrified at their aloofness and meditated actions towards him in this manner?

What is it that you respect?

[DRMIZER]

Historians and religious scholars do not take these works seriously I'm fairly certain that these two groups don't see eye to eye in their respective disciplines.

[DRMIZER]

Ok, Ok, enough torturing me with the questions , the looks ...I confess , I did it ...

I DID IT !Sorry, you're wrong. . . . I did it!! :o

[Zephyr]

WOW, I find it very awkward, on a deep level, that there are people that can jest about the death of Jesus, like it's some big joke.It's not? If there was even the slightest possibility that those who mock his death, could conceive that they are wrong and that Jesus is God, THEIR creator, would they not be horrified at their aloofness and meditated actions towards him in this manner?Ain't my god.

What is it that you respect?
In all honesty, mocking a man dying is usually not a very nice thing. However, you gotta love the results.

[Cedars]

I'm fairly certain that these two groups don't see eye to eye in their respective disciplines.
Obviously, especially in light of who the "two groups" are. Brown listed a partial bibliography for his book on his web page. "These titles represent works of New Age speculation that run counter to established history, focus on alleged secret societies and conspiracy theories, attempt to reinterpret the Christian faith, and are imbued with radical feminist agendas." It is no wonder, then, that "historians and religious scholars do not take these works seriously." (http://www.catholic.com/library/cracking_da_vinci_code.asp) Not from a mere difference of opinion, though, but from recognizing where reality ends and fiction starts. Historians deal with facts, and they do not take speculations as fact. When you start with a fallacy, it will only beget more fallacies.

[serenity]

WOW, I find it very awkward, on a deep level, that there are people that can jest about the death of Jesus, like it's some big joke. If there was even the slightest possibility that those who mock his death, could conceive that they are wrong and that Jesus is God, THEIR creator, would they not be horrified at their aloofness and meditated actions towards him in this manner?


Really, to be honest, it was me...but it was an accident. I thought he was a commie.

[tFighterPilot]

I killed Jesus. End of story.

[neo of the mind]

For those mocking the death of Jesus, is there somebody you can name that you would not want mocking of their death?

I am curious as to what names people will come up with, people whom respect should be given, in their opinion over a person, whom billions believe is God, the creator of everything.

I challenge those to give input.

[Amfortas]

For those mocking the death of Jesus, is there somebody you can name that you would not want mocking of their death?

I am curious as to what names people will come up with, people whom respect should be given, in their opinion over a person, whom billions believe is God, the creator of everything.

I challenge those to give input.

Hey, if Graham Chapmans buddies mocked him at his funeral .. who's less worthy of mockery then ? :)

Lighten up!

[tFighterPilot]

Bloody christians. They have no sense of humor.

[burntgorilla]

WOW, I find it very awkward, on a deep level, that there are people that can jest about the death of Jesus, like it's some big joke. If there was even the slightest possibility that those who mock his death, could conceive that they are wrong and that Jesus is God, THEIR creator, would they not be horrified at their aloofness and meditated actions towards him in this manner?

What is it that you respect?

I see your point, but then I hope you respect the belief that the stars are actually the semen from a god (I can't remember which one), that was about a while ago. I also hope you respect other's choice to not have a faith and never try and show them to be wrong or try to convert them (although you don't do much of that, it's more sub).

[Soc.Dem.]

It was all of you that now make fun of it.

None of the people who are now making fun it were born at the time of Jesus' execution, so none of them could possibly have done it. :rolleyes:

[steveksux]

Some people believe that it was Jesus' twin brother Thomas that was crucified. Jesus went into hiding and died of old age.

Read the Gospel of Thomas from the Nag Hammadi jars.I think his name was Brian, not Thomas, actually. I saw a documentary about that a number of years ago. "Life of Brian" was the title.

Randy

[Soc.Dem.]

Is it impossible for an omnipotent God to become man, to take on man’s nature and raise it up so that we might live? Of course not. If God can create the world and man (and give the world seasons for living and dying and give man a time to live and a time to die), then it is not impossible that God can create angels or perform miracles – after all, the Creator understands what it is that the Creator created. Therefore, it is not impossible for God to become man, namely Jesus. And it is not impossible for Jesus, then, who is God incarnate, to rise from the dead.


Is it impossible for an omnipotent God to simply forgive man's sins so that we might live, without anyone, neighter god nor man, having to die? Of course not.

[steveksux]

Know that the fallacies you believe today are the product of the Nicene Council of A.D. 325 (http://www.letusreason.org/Trin13.htm).

The doctrines expounded to the Christian World today were created by this council three centuries after Christ. They are not the words of God, and probably not even the words of Jesus; they were the words of men, who decided Mary Magdalene is a prostitute, decided which gospels would become the official ones, and which would become the Apocrypha..I would have to disagree. They sifted through the common Christian beliefs floating around at the time and standardized on which ones were going to be considered official, and which were not accepted.

That would be like saying the guys that decided long ago which books of the Bible were in and which were out "wrote the Bible". As soon as you impose order and structure where none existed previously, you necessarily standardize. This came about as Christianity changed from an anarchic group that generally believed in a fairly common set of ideas, but with the details varying over a wide range of exaggerations and distortions as stories got retold over time to one of a standardized, rigid, agreed upon doctrine.

Randy

[steveksux]

For those mocking the death of Jesus, is there somebody you can name that you would not want mocking of their death?

I am curious as to what names people will come up with, people whom respect should be given, in their opinion over a person, whom billions believe is God, the creator of everything.

I challenge those to give input.The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Praise be unto Him and his noodly appendage... (http://www.venganza.org/)

Randy

[cpwill]

I'm fairly certain that these two groups don't see eye to eye in their respective disciplines.

then you would be fairly wrong, as much of religious scholarship is historical.

[mataj]

I killed Jesus. End of story.Well done! :thumbsup:

For those mocking the death of Jesus, is there somebody you can name that you would not want mocking of their death?

I am curious as to what names people will come up with, people whom respect should be given, in their opinion over a person, whom billions believe is God, the creator of everything.

I challenge those to give input.Jesus is not person, he is a myth, a political myth. Political myths are dangerous, because they instigate people to violence. Mocking them is therefore beneficial, as well as necessary.

[cpwill]

I would have to disagree. They sifted through the common Christian beliefs floating around at the time and standardized on which ones were going to be considered official, and which were not accepted.

even then you are heavily understating the case; the basic canon and doctrine which the nicene council accepted was already established in the Early Church by the mid-second century.

[Soc.Dem.]

then you would be fairly wrong, as much of religious scholarship is historical.

That is true, and that is why many fundamentalist Christians are sceptical towards studying the Scriptures from an scientific point of view.

[Cedars]

Is it impossible for an omnipotent God to simply forgive man's sins so that we might live, without anyone, neighter god nor man, having to die? Of course not.
No, it is not impossible for an omnipotent God to simply forgive. Jesus sacrificed self -- He chose this of His own free will -- but not merely so that sins could be forgiven, but for much, MUCH more. God created man to live WITH God, to be in God's presence. However, God gave us the choice on whether we wish to be in that presence -- and that requires our own free will to choose to be WITH God. Jesus' sacrifice was not merely to show that our sins were to be forgiven but to accomplish and finish the work God created (namely, God's work in the creation of man) -- so that we may follow Christ's example -- and the sacraments instituted by God and fulfilled through Christ (namely, Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion/Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders and Annointing of the Sick) give actual Grace from God to strengthen us and help us accomplish that goal to be with God (if that is our will). This is why Christ is referred to as the "second Adam." Where Adam said no to God, Christ said yes. It is through Christ we have salvation. Salvation can only come through God.

[burntgorilla]

I think his name was Brian, not Thomas, actually. I saw a documentary about that a number of years ago. "Life of Brian" was the title.

Randy

Heh, I was waiting for the Life of Brian comments.

[neo of the mind]

For those mocking the death of Jesus, is there somebody you can name that you would not want mocking of their death?

I am curious as to what names people will come up with, people whom respect should be given, in their opinion over a person, whom billions believe is God, the creator of everything.

I challenge those to give input.

So far we have one name offered up:

"The Flying Spaghetti Monster"

I would have thought somebody would at least say their wife, children or family as being off limits to mocking of their deaths, but I guess everyone is up for fair game in the jesting. I guess at the funeral home you would be laughing right along with the jokster at how your wife screamed like a little girl as she slipped and fell of the ladder or some other witty jibe of any other scenario.....Does this precede and draw you towards your ideology or does the ideology dictate this form of thinking?

[SuperJames]

God Bless You, Neo!

Faith...Either ya' got it or ya' don't.

But since the choice is entirely yours anyway, why would you ever choose not to step up to the gift of faith that is right there for the asking???

[burntgorilla]

Well, the benefits are only benefits if you believe in them. You've heard of that argument, where the benefits of belief are so good, that it makes logical sense to believe in them? After all, if you stand to gain heaven, represented as infinity good, and only stand to lose small annoyances, represented as one bad, then logically you should believe. Where that argument falls down is that the benefits are only infinitely good if you believe in them. For example, most faiths have some kind of prize for believers. But because you don't believe in them, the benefits are meaningless to you. You have to already be a believer to see the benefits you get from believing, if you get my drift.

[Kong]

who killed jesus and why did they kill jesus?Nobody, he just had an out of the body experience. :lol:

[melchizedek22]

Its simple who killed Jesus,I did! By being a sinner Jesus had to come and freely give his life so I could be Passed over by the Angel of Death!
Even if no one else ever sinned,Jesus would have still came and given his life just to save my crummy butt!:sorry:

[Kong]

From what I could understand Jesus was not killed but just left his body. Is Jesus his physical body or is he a spiritual being?

[ArabGirl]

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Qur’an, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised his beloved prophet up to him.

[Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.] (Aal `Imran 3:53-55)
The Qur’an confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment.

There was a mancalled Bernaba. Bernaba is the student of jesus, not like others 150 years and more diffrance between them and jesus, this man left a bible which confirms the stated facts be Quran about the christ.

[Cedars]

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Qur’an, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised his beloved prophet up to him.

[Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.] (Aal `Imran 3:53-55)
The Qur’an confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment.

There was a mancalled Bernaba. Bernaba is the student of jesus, not like others 150 years and more diffrance between them and jesus, this man left a bible which confirms the stated facts be Quran about the christ.
It is interesting that your Koran says, “I will make those who follow thee [Jesus] superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection,” yet Muslims follow the teachings of Mohammed (Islam), and not Jesus (Christianity).

It is explicitly stated in the Bible that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead on the third day. The books of the Bible have many witnesses, not just one (as the Koran does). Mohammed had no witnesses; he was the sole person who could attest to what only he himself saw in his “vision,” whereas the Bible has many authors and witnesses who actually attested to the witness of the death and resurrection of Jesus. They witnessed actual events, not visions. It is Mohammed’s word against the word of the apostles and all the early Christian witnesses (who, again, actually witnessed the death and resurrection of Jesus). Mohammed did not even live until some 600 years after Christ. He does not make a credible witness to the happenings and events of the time of Christ ("vision" or no vision).

[Kong]

It is explicitly stated in the Bible that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead on the third day.I was taught Jesus left his body and entered the spiritual world where he ministered to restless soles in hell until he returned to the physical world on the third day to make his physical resurrection. It is reported that he physically rose up into the clouds as he ascended to heaven above. Is this teaching in error?

[DRMIZER]

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Qur’an, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised his beloved prophet up to him.

[Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.] (Aal `Imran 3:53-55)
The Qur’an confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment.

There was a mancalled Bernaba. Bernaba is the student of jesus, not like others 150 years and more diffrance between them and jesus, this man left a bible which confirms the stated facts be Quran about the christ.How do you explain these 2 accounts. . .from your perspective?

[Cedars]

I was taught Jesus left his body and entered the spiritual world where he ministered to restless soles in hell until he returned to the physical world on the third day to make his physical resurrection. It is reported that he physically rose up into the clouds as he ascended to heaven above. Is this teaching in error?
While the Bible does say that Jesus's physical body died on the Cross and that his body was resurrected, I personally am not sure whether it was Jesus's resurrected body or spirit which descended into hell before it ascended into heaven. That's a good question. I will see if I can find the answer and will post it later if I do.

[Cedars]

According to St. Thomas Aquinas, it was His Spirit.

"Reply to Objection 3. Christ's soul descended into hell not by the same kind of motion as that whereby bodies are moved, but by that kind whereby the angels are moved, as was said in I, 53, 1]."

From Summa Theologica, http://www.newadvent.org/summa/405201.htm

[Cedars]

PS:

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.