The Qur'an and Jews

[sub_zer0]

In case you didn't know where this "religion of peace" can be justified to kill Jews...

Among the bad qualities they were characterized with are the following:

1. They used to fabricate things and falsely ascribe them to Allah. Allah Almighty says: “ That is because they say: We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.” (Al-`Imran:75) Also: “The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will.” (Al-Ma`idah:64)

In another verse Almighty Allah says: “Verily Allah heard the saying of those who said, (when asked for contributions to the war): "Allah, forsooth, is poor, and we are rich! We shall record their saying with their slaying of the Prophets wrongfully and We shall say: Taste ye the punishment of burning!” (Al-`Imran:181)

2. They love to listen to lies. Concerning this Allah says: “and of the Jews: listeners for the sake of falsehood, listeners on behalf of other folk” (Al-Ma’idah: 41)

3. Disobeying Almighty Allah and never observing His commands. Allah says: “And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts.” (Al-Ma’idah: 13)

4. Disputing and quarreling. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Their Prophet said unto them: Lo! Allah hath raised up Saul to be a king for you. They said: How can he have kingdom over us when we are more deserving of the kingdom than he is, since he hath not been given wealth enough?” (Al-Baqarah: 247)

5. Hiding the truth and standing for misleading. This can be understood from the verse that reads: “…distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture.” (Al-`Imran: 78)

6. Staging rebellion against the Prophets and rejecting their guidance. This is clear in the verse: “And when ye said: O Moses! We will not believe in thee till we see Allah plainly.” (Al-Baqarah: 55)

7. Hypocrisy. In a verse, we read: “And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.” (Al-Baqarah: 14) In another verse, we read: “Enjoin ye righteousness upon mankind while ye yourselves forget (to practice it)? And ye are readers of the Scripture! Have ye then no sense?” (Al-Baqarah: 44)

8. Giving preference to their own interests over the rulings of religion and the dictates of truth. Allah says: “…when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?” (Al-Baqarah: 87)

9. Wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them.” (Al-Baqarah: 109)

10. They feel pain to see others in happiness and are gleeful when others are afflicted with a calamity. This is clear in the verse that reads: “If a lucky chance befall you, it is evil unto them, and if disaster strike you they rejoice thereat.” (Al-`Imran:120)

11. They are known of their arrogance and haughtiness. They claimed to be the sons and of Allah and His beloved ones. Allah tells us about this in the verse that reads: “The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones.” (Al-Ma’idah: 18)

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006908.php

[::Major_Baker::]

I say get rid of it all! That is the only way peace will previal, when modern civilization is destroyed and a new relgion-free population tkaes control of the earth. No seriously....

[Lumpen Prole]

Sub is right. But we have to keep this quiet until we have them all in the camps. We all know what needs to be done.

[steveksux]

Talk about wishing evil and misleading. I didn't see anything about killing Jews in there.

Oooooh, its Sub's thread.

Randy

[GI Joe]

Talk about wishing evil and misleading. I didn't see anything about killing Jews in there.

Oooooh, its Sub's thread.

Randy


Then try this

http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/showthread.php?p=827298#post827298

[steveksux]

Then try this

http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/showthread.php?p=827298#post827298Thats still not the Qur'an. Shall we post the quotes of Pat Robertson calling for assassinations and use that to claim the Bible advocates killing Chavez?

But that's an interesting link. Jihadis and militants want to wipe Israel off the map? I hadn't heard of that before... :rolleyes:

Randy

[Michele]

I am confused. Is this an islam bashing thread or a jew hatred thread? or a muslim hatred thread? or a "lets talk about islam bashing" thread or a "let's talk about jew bashing" thread. "let's talk about muslim bashing" thread or a let's found a religion of peace thread? or a let's do away with all religion thread? it is difficult to tell.

[sub_zer0]

Thats still not the Qur'an. Shall we post the quotes of Pat Robertson calling for assassinations and use that to claim the Bible advocates killing Chavez?

Pat Robertson is not the Bible.

But that's an interesting link. Jihadis and militants want to wipe Israel off the map? I hadn't heard of that before... :rolleyes:

Randy

Those same jihadi's and militants use what I just quoted as their basis of wiping Israel off the map.

I am confused. Is this an islam bashing thread or a jew hatred thread? or a muslim hatred thread? or a "lets talk about islam bashing" thread or a "let's talk about jew bashing" thread. "let's talk about muslim bashing" thread or a let's found a religion of peace thread? or a let's do away with all religion thread? it is difficult to tell.

It is a thread to show what the Qur'an, therfore Muslims, believe about Jews.

[Michele]

Pat Robertson is not the Bible.



Those same jihadi's and militants use what I just quoted as their basis of wiping Israel off the map.


yeah just as all stripes of fundies have used the word of god to justify all forms of destruction since the fertility cults were demonized (along with matrilineage), by judeo christianity... hell by all the Abrahamic religions.

but I guess you vote for this being a "let's talk about the Jew bashing by Islamic fundies" thread.

[sub_zer0]

but I guess you vote for this being a "let's talk about the Jew bashing by Islamic fundies" thread.

No, what part about the Qur'an that is quoted, do you not realize that it is bashing Jews if anything?

[Michele]

No, what part about the Qur'an that is quoted, do you not realize that it is bashing Jews if anything?


umm. can you rephrase that question?

[sub_zer0]

umm. can you rephrase that question?

What part of what is quoted in the Qur'an makes you think it is not bashing Jews?

[JoeR]

Why should I think these quotes are in their proper context and meaning any more than when Bible quotes are taken out of context by people looking for a silver bullet against Christianity?

[Dangerrmouse]

What part of what is quoted in the Qur'an makes you think it is not bashing Jews?

The quotes are from a virulently anti-Islamic source, Do you know they are not quoting out of context to stir up resentment? Have you studied the original text enough to know the difference?

[Michele]

Why should I think these quotes are in their proper context and meaning any more than when Bible quotes are taken out of context by people looking for a silver bullet against Christianity?


good point.

you know at one point there was a flurry of so called quotes from the qur'an posted on the forum that at the time I actually bothered to check in context and most indeed were quoted out of context. Of course those that were using the out of context quotes, out to prove the qur'an preaches Jew hatred, didn't seem to care much for the relevance of context.

So I suppose than my question is clarified. The poster who openned the post intended this to be a thread to discuss "Jew bashing within the qur'an" throwing all context to the wind.

[JoeR]

Before I get called out as a hypocrite on this, yes I've done the taking Bible quotes out of context thing in the past but I decided to stop it after reading through Tektonics (I think that was the site). I realized me discussing scripture is like creationists discussing science, so I decided to stop.

[sub_zer0]

The quotes are from a virulently anti-Islamic source, Do you know they are not quoting out of context to stir up resentment? Have you studied the original text enough to know the difference?

Actually if you go to the original site (Islam Online (http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/fatwah_story.asp?service_id=449) ), this is merely an answer to the question: "What, according to the Qur’an, are the main characteristics and qualities of Jew?", from Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee.

Before I get called out as a hypocrite on this, yes I've done the taking Bible quotes out of context thing in the past but I decided to stop it after reading through Tektonics (I think that was the site). I realized me discussing scripture is like creationists discussing science, so I decided to stop.

How isn't creationism science?

[Art of War]

How isn't creationism science?


Don't do it Joe! Fight the temptation! Laugh hysterically but don't get goaded into this argument again. :rolleyes:

[sub_zer0]

Don't do it Joe! Fight the temptation! Laugh hysterically but don't get goaded into this argument again. :rolleyes:

So you have nothing? What about creationism is so blatently not scientific?

[steveksux]

So you have nothing? What about creationism is so blatently not scientific?Its based on the Bible superceeding any fact or evidence that contradicts it.

Science doesn't assume its right and ignore any evidence to the contrary. Science changes its theories to fit the facts. Not the other way around.

Randy

[Tokyoman]

Jews as Depicted in the Qur’an

3/23/2004 8:00:00 AM GMT

Dear Sheikh! As-Salam `Alaykum. What, according to the Qur’an, are the main characteristics and qualities of Jews?

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All thanks and praise are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, we are really pleased to have your question and we pray to Allah to make our humble efforts, exerted solely for His Sake, come up to your expectation.

As regards the question you posed, the following is the fatwa issued by Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, in which he states the following:

“The Qur’an has specified a considerable deal of its verses to talking about Jews, their personal qualities and characteristics. The Qur’anic description of Jews is quite impartial; praising them in some occasions where they deserve praise and condemning them in other occasions where they practice blameworthy acts. Yet, the latter occasions outnumbered the former, due to their bad qualities and the heinous acts they used to commit.

The Qur’an praises them on the verse that reads: “ And verily We gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favored them above (all) peoples.” (Al-Jathiyah:16) i.e. the peoples of their time.

Among the bad qualities they were characterized with are the following:

Cont...

http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/fatwah_story.asp?service_id=449

Well I guess that settles it. Not out of context, not from some jihadis frothing mouth, all the bad qualities and heinous acts of the Jews straight out of the Quran for all Muslims to ponder.

The quotes are from a virulently anti-Islamic source, Do you know they are not quoting out of context to stir up resentment? Have you studied the original text enough to know the difference?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Michele]

How isn't creationism science?



you win the prize for giving me my first laugh of the day.

[serenity]

you win the prize for giving me my first laugh of the day.


Watch it, Michele; sub_zero will argue the "science" of creationism endlessly, ignore all rbuttals, and use the most breathtaking intellectual acrobatics imaginable to "prove" the point. :)

[sub_zer0]

Its based on the Bible superceeding any fact or evidence that contradicts it.

Science doesn't assume its right and ignore any evidence to the contrary. Science changes its theories to fit the facts. Not the other way around.

Randy

I am not talking about the presuppositions, while I rely on the Bible you rely on man.

What part of the fact that creationism merely relies on observed science makes it not science? If what we observe shows changes that are consistent with primate to man evolution the model would change, yet there has been nothing observed to do so.

While you may think creationism isn't science, in fact it relies more on observed science than evolution does.

[steveksux]

I am not talking about the presuppositions, while I rely on the Bible you rely on man.The presuppositions ARE part of "creation" psuedoscience. The crucial, integral part. That is the problem. They are not "presuppositions" in the first place. They are iron clad rules assumed true and held onto in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Creation "science" is related to science as the Anti-Christ is to Christ. They are polar opposites.

You can not ignore the unscientific presuppositions that disqualify creation "science" from being genuine science when discussing whether or not creation science is valid science. Anymore than you can ignore the part where I claim 2+2=5 and then attempt to say my arithmetic is mathematically sound.

You can't claim "If you ignore the unscientific parts of my theory, its totally scientific!!"
Randy

[Dangerrmouse]

[I]Jews as Depicted in the Qur’an
....

Well I guess that settles it. Not out of context, not from some jihadis frothing mouth, all the bad qualities and heinous acts of the Jews straight out of the Quran for all Muslims to ponder...
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

One "sheik's" opinion, not that of Islam as an entity. Do you know that HE wasn't quoting selectively to support HIS agenda? No.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Art of War]

Damnit Randy! You weren't supposed to get goaded into it with him again. That whole issue has been argued ad naseum. I think he just gets a kick out of playing the if I cover my eyes its not true card.

[GI Joe]

How isn't creationism science?



It ain't

Deal with it

[Tokyoman]

One "sheik's" opinion, not that of Islam as an entity. Do you know that HE wasn't quoting selectively to support HIS agenda? No.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The quotes are from a virulently anti-Islamic source

:rofl:

He was quoting straight from the Quran.

[sub_zer0]

The presuppositions ARE part of "creation" psuedoscience. The crucial, integral part. That is the problem. They are not "presuppositions" in the first place. They are iron clad rules assumed true and held onto in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Creation "science" is related to science as the Anti-Christ is to Christ. They are polar opposites.

They may be polar opposites but that doesn't disqualify evolutionary thoery as having presuppostitions.

How can you say creationism isn't science, when a great deal of what we know as science still today was founded on that very belief? Sorry, you are going to have to do better than this.

You can not ignore the unscientific presuppositions that disqualify creation "science" from being genuine science when discussing whether or not creation science is valid science. Anymore than you can ignore the part where I claim 2+2=5 and then attempt to say my arithmetic is mathematically sound.

You can't claim "If you ignore the unscientific parts of my theory, its totally scientific!!"
Randy

Natural processes is no more scientific than supernatural processes. If they are at polar opposites it would be better for the scientific community to respect both and just encourage research.

I don't know how many times I have pointed out where evolution doesn't rely on OBSERVATIONAL SCIENCE, just assumptions... I am still waiting for you to show how creationism isn't science.

[burntgorilla]

It ain't

Deal with it

Wow, I'm... agreeing with GI Joe! What is this strange feeling possessing my body?!

[burntgorilla]

BTW, Randy, you do know you're effectively hitting your head against a brick wall there?