THE NINE COMMANDMENTS

[DRMIZER]

The Nine Commandments

It’s bad enough that some Alabama Ayatollah sees fit to embarrass us all by claiming that our body of law comes from interactive supernatural deities flying around in the netherworld, but to claim the Ten Commandments are the only example of that goes beyond the pale. These commandments taken as a whole are the rallying point of reactionary conservatives, but taken individually, those who have not surrendered their ability to reason to God understands we have no body of law telling us we cannot curse, or that we cannot make a graven image, or we must worship only one specific God, or we must go to church on Sunday, or it is criminal not to honor our parents, or face jail for having an affair, or any law about coveting a neighbors goods, wife or shinny cracker ***. Of the remaining three - stealing, killing and lying - all are found in every religious and secular document from Hammurabi to the People’s Republic of China. So we find again, as so many conservative arguments do, this begins from a false premise to reach their false conclusion.

Graven image - an idol; an object of worship carved from wood, stone, etc. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.'' --Ex. xx. 4. Commandment II

But what really makes this all the more silly is that the Ayatollah Moore (the state of Alabama’s Supreme Court chief justice) is paid to have a graven image carved in stone placed inside the capital court building refusing under federal orders (rule of law) to remove it. All while an army of boobs come from near and far to kneel around this graven image in worship. That hypocrisy of breaking one of the very commandments they are advocating is sour enough, but Moore and his flock unable to reach the intellectual plateau of cauliflower to see it, moves the title of Silliest State from California to now Alabama.

source http://rackjite.com

[up2date]

This has the potential for an interesting discussion. But let me ask, does referring to Justice Moore as "Ayatollah Moore" serve any purpose?

[DRMIZER]

Well, his fundamentalism stood out so much and he had such feverent followers, it seemed to be a good title for him.

[america]

I change the channel, but sometimes at night the channel I watched during the day all of a sudden has two people doing it on my big wide screen t.v.
or if i walk into a motel room and spice channel is on I have to change it
even on niccelodeum or whatever that kid show is the kids are dancing provocative
I have a child around and do not appreciate it, but I change the channel.
the ten commandments are big and made of stone, everyone can spot them a mile away, don't read it if you don't want to, so what?
Read them if you do, and don't read them if you don't, and young kids can't read, and if they did it would not be as traumatic as mine having to see women with peni's in their mouths before I can change the channel, to me that is a graven image.
too bad the word of God is transfered to be a graven image. it is not a graven image to a Christian.
Porn is in, God is out, now that goes right along with the bible, "there will be those who call good evil, and evil good" so if people want them or not, there ya go! everyone plays a part.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by america
. . . . . . . .too bad the word of God is transfered to be a graven image. it is not a graven image to a Christian.
Porn is in, God is out, now that goes right along with the bible, "there will be those who call good evil, and evil good" so if people want them or not, there ya go! everyone plays a part.

I don't think that the word of God is a graven image. The fact that it has to be pushed upon those who don't necessarily want it or those who have another system of dogma makes it a problem.

People are going to be the way they are, whether or not the 10 commandments are displayed in a particular place. What really amazes me is that every Christian I know goes to church. Why is it NOT enough to place the 10 commandments there? Why is it necessary to push it upon everyone everywhere?

Those of other faiths, place their symbols in their places of worship. That's why there isn't an uprising against other religions. If they were to take a stance as Moore did, I'm sure the Christians would be all over them! Don't you think?

[america]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
I don't think that the word of God is a graven image. The fact that it has to be pushed upon those who don't necessarily want it or those who have another system of dogma makes it a problem.

People are going to be the way they are, whether or not the 10 commandments are displayed in a particular place. What really amazes me is that every Christian I know goes to church. Why is it NOT enough to place the 10 commandments there? Why is it necessary to push it upon everyone everywhere?

Those of other faiths, place their symbols in their places of worship. That's why there isn't an uprising against other religions. If they were to take a stance as Moore did, I'm sure the Christians would be all over them! Don't you think?
I rarely go to church for various reasons but I have the ten commandments in my house. More rarely do I go to the court house.
The outrage over the Ten Commandments made it an issue for me, it was not really an issue before. People act like every American has to go to the court house prior to work or school and pay homage to the Ten Commandments. People who are in the court house have their minds on other things.
I read the bible every day sometimes most of a day and think about the message in it. I watch shut in t.v haha. I flip through the Christian broadcast and see who is a fake and who isn't.
I call them on their words and they don't like it, it is easy to see who is a fake by their response. (there is a method to it, just act real dumb and pretend you are getting ready to pay them your last dollar but have a few questions, they hesitate because they are not sure you are that dumb, but they go along with it, then you give them the zinger and tell them they are full of it, sometimes I don't blow the cover and just say "okay thanks I will send it to you." keep in mind I am telling them I am sending my only grocery money for my children.)
I like Joyce Meyers she does not have an agenda and some other guy, I forget his name, he has a country accent.
The thing is Pat Roberson is protesting the ten commandments but he rubs elbows and clinks glasses with the very people who are involved in getting rid of them. He counts on the dumbness of others.
To answer your question, No I don't think many Christians would mind if others put up their symbols. I would welcome it, many people operate in the darkness and will not say who they are or what they stand for.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by america
I rarely go to church for various reasons but I have the ten commandments in my house. More rarely do I go to the court house.
The outrage over the Ten Commandments made it an issue for me, it was not really an issue before. People act like every American has to go to the court house prior to work or school and pay homage to the Ten Commandments. People who are in the court house have their minds on other things.
I read the bible every day sometimes most of a day and think about the message in it. I watch shut in t.v haha. I flip through the Christian broadcast and see who is a fake and who isn't.
I call them on their words and they don't like it, it is easy to see who is a fake by their response. (there is a method to it, just act real dumb and pretend you are getting ready to pay them your last dollar but have a few questions, they hesitate because they are not sure you are that dumb, but they go along with it, then you give them the zinger and tell them they are full of it, sometimes I don't blow the cover and just say "okay thanks I will send it to you." keep in mind I am telling them I am sending my only grocery money for my children.)
I like Joyce Meyers she does not have an agenda and some other guy, I forget his name, he has a country accent.
The thing is Pat Roberson is protesting the ten commandments but he rubs elbows and clinks glasses with the very people who are involved in getting rid of them. He counts on the dumbness of others.
To answer your question, No I don't think many Christians would mind if others put up their symbols. I would welcome it, many people operate in the darkness and will not say who they are or what they stand for.
Well now, you do see the light.;)
The charlatans make it tough for everyone. Good point. . . .How many other religious figures other than Christian do you see on TV or hear on radio each week? Maybe 1 or 2 compared to the thousands of Christian broadcasts? That's why I don't have a beef with the other bunch.
And for every 50 fraud TV preachers, you'll find 1 that's sincere and true to THE word.
The fact is. . . . .they don't need to be everywhere all the time for us to have a "Christian country". Ever heard the term OVERKILL?

[america]

he operates in secrecy so he would not have a daily program.
Lets think this further, you can't say "see there are christian broadcasts on t.v therefore they are the biggest problem."
because you may miss out on the ones who operate in secrecy and pushing the christians out front to do their dirty work.
also if you look at the broadcasts it is done with donated networks with people of pink hair thick fake eyelashes and tons of makeup or very ignorant sounding that no one would want to follow them.
Now go to the t.v ads on booze, clothes, what was ciggarrette ads and casino's, even soaps and other merchandise. What do you see? Sexy, cool, inviting, fabulous ads, Now ask yourself what do you think they are selling on t.v GOD or Sex and toys?
now watch movies very carefully,
when you are watching a cool movie with great stars and starletts is that person a Christian? nope, rarely.
Watch very closely, you will see a cross, either on a wall or on someones neck as jewelry, then the very next scene will be a murder. Do you think this is an accident? nope.
It is the tricky you have to watch for.
Then watch the news, you will see the sins of Christians being brought to the public, what about others sins? They are sinless?
see it is what you don't see that is more dangerous than what you do see.

[america]

I just find it odd that the Ten Commandments is so offensive and the seperation of church and state is brought to the defend the people who are offended but then we adopt a code of ethics by LAW called the Noahide laws. I guess I just don't get it.







www.noahide.com/minimum.htm

From their website:

"...according to the known Jewish ruling that Christians are idol worshippers." (Likkutei Sichos 37:198) [Likkutei Sichos is a printed and bound anthology of talks given by Rabbi Schneerson]

A gentile...is liable for the death penalty...if he has invented a religious holiday for himself...The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' for themselves by their own devices. Rather they may either become a Ger Tzeddek and accept all the Mitvahs; or he (the Noahide) should stand fast in his Torah (the seven Noahide Laws) without adding or diminishing...and if he does make some new 'mitzvah,' we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is obligated with the death penalty for this..." (Rambam Mishne Torah—Hilchos Melachim 10:9)

http://www.noahide.com/xmas.htm

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
I just find it odd that the Ten Commandments is so offensive and the seperation of church and state is brought to the defend the people who are offended but then we adopt a code of ethics by LAW called the Noahide laws. I guess I just don't get it. It has nothing to do with being offensive. It's just a clear cut application of the law.

[america]

I guess I am not understanding this.
What law? What law states no ten commandments in the court house?
and
why then did we put the Noahide Laws into Law?
I don't get it so it must not be too clear cut?

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
I guess I am not understanding this.
What law? What law states no ten commandments in the court house? The constitution. Specifically the First Amendment.Originally posted by america
and
why then did we put the Noahide Laws into Law?
I don't get it so it must not be too clear cut? We didn't. It has to do with the first amendment. See above.

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by america
I just find it odd that the Ten Commandments is so offensive and the seperation of church and state is brought to the defend the people who are offended but then we adopt a code of ethics by LAW called the Noahide laws. I guess I just don't get it.


From the Noah website: "the purpose of life is to serve G-d with everything we have. This starts by obeying His Law completely, and on that basis we are now able to harness our energies and opportunities every single day for His goals, not ours."

I'm not sure where the law is being prohibitive to you. According to this website, the purpose of life is to serve G-d. What is stopping you? Why is it necessary to have the 10 commandments everywhere for you to obey His law?

[thoss52]

I think Christan's wast commandment its should " Tho shalt not " that seems to fit them better

[america]

Originally posted by up2date
The constitution. Specifically the First Amendment. We didn't. It has to do with the first amendment. See above.

The first ammendment states that the government should not make any law RESPECTING a religion. I don't read anything in the first ammendment that states the Ten Commandments cannot be placed in the court house.

But then:

The U.S. Congress officially recognized the Noahide Laws in legislation which was passed by both houses. Congress and the President of the United States, George Bush, indicated in Public Law 102-14, 102nd Congress, that the United States of America was founded upon the Seven Universal Laws of Noah, and that these Laws have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization. They also acknowledged that the Seven Laws of Noah are the foundation upon which civilization stands and that recent weakening of these principles threaten the fabric of civilized society, and that justified preoccupation in educating the Citizens of the United States of America and future generations is needed. For this purpose, this Public Law designated March 26, 1991 as Education Day, U.S.A.


If there is any debate to be done, it should be done with the fact they did make a law respecting a religion.

[america]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
From the Noah website: "the purpose of life is to serve G-d with everything we have. This starts by obeying His Law completely, and on that basis we are now able to harness our energies and opportunities every single day for His goals, not ours."

I'm not sure where the law is being prohibitive to you. According to this website, the purpose of life is to serve G-d. What is stopping you? Why is it necessary to have the 10 commandments everywhere for you to obey His law?

It is being prohibitive to me because I believe in Jesus and the Noahides consider that is a false God. The fact that the idea we cannot have the Ten Commandments which are not being prohibitive either cannot be displayed yet a LAW is made according to another religion.
I still don't get it.

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
It is being prohibitive to me because I believe in Jesus and the Noahides consider that is a false God. The fact that the idea we cannot have the Ten Commandments which are not being prohibitive either cannot be displayed yet a LAW is made according to another religion.
I still don't get it. You're confusing me. What do the Noahide laws have to do with the monument being removed? it was a Constitutional matter.

[america]

Originally posted by up2date
You're confusing me. What do the Noahide laws have to do with the monument being removed? it was a Constitutional matter.

Lets turn it around then,

Lets pretend they government made a law that everyone should abide by the Ten Commandments and when someone displayed the Noahide laws they were removed because of the excuse of the first commandment.

would it not be natural for those who wanted to place the Noahide Laws to say, "gee you just made a law stating we should all abide by the Ten Commandments"

The Noahide Law is a religion.

[thoss52]

are saying the ten commandment do not specify a religion? the first commandment says theres but one God and thats argumentative .
why do you want things in a public building like the ten commandments or a Confederate flag ?

[up2date]

Your argument still makes no sense to me. It's a constitutional matter, nothing more, nothing less. The courthouse could no more have placed a Star of David or a monument to the Koran.

[thoss52]

how about a monument saying satan will set you free ? or a nice "an in harm non , do as thou will "? or something from Hinduism ?

[america]

Originally posted by up2date
Your argument still makes no sense to me. It's a constitutional matter, nothing more, nothing less. The courthouse could no more have placed a Star of David or a monument to the Koran.

What is a constitutional matter?

Also if you look at the supreme court they have religious statues of the old testament
and the money says "In God we trutst."

[america]

Originally posted by thoss52
how about a monument saying satan will set you free ? or a nice "an in harm non , do as thou will "? or something from Hinduism ?

I would not mind the hindu quote but I think the Satan one is promoting evil and we are at war , good vs. evil, whoever put that one in might get it for treason.

Perhaps we should just change the way things are set up totally.
Perhaps as GROUPS we can pay taxes to our group.
For example divide the amount needed to run the country in groups by religion.
All Hindu's, Pagans, Satan Worshippers, Earth and Sunners, Judaisms, Muslims or what have you, then each of those groups send in the equal amount of money to taxes.
I think that would eliminate some of the bitterness.
Also do the same with the draft, draft by religious groups
and EQUAL amount of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's etc.
that way we all should have an equal say.

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
Perhaps we should just change the way things are set up totally.
Perhaps as GROUPS we can pay taxes to our group.
For example divide the amount needed to run the country in groups by religion.
All Hindu's, Pagans, Satan Worshippers, Earth and Sunners, Judaisms, Muslims or what have you, then each of those groups send in the equal amount of money to taxes.
I think that would eliminate some of the bitterness.
Also do the same with the draft, draft by religious groups
and EQUAL amount of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's etc.
that way we all should have an equal say. Is this a joke?Originally posted by america
Also if you look at the supreme court they have religious statues of the old testament
and the money says "In God we trutst."Our money shouldn't say that, actually. And there is generally a distinction made between what is in judges chambers, for example, and what is on public display.

[thoss52]

no joke , I know satanist well a few and their not bad guys at all , their religion is recognized here in the states . so if a Christan symbol can be displade why not theirs .

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
no joke , I know satanist well a few and their not bad guys at all , their religion is recognized here in the states . so if a Christan symbol can be displade why not theirs . My joke comment was aimed at america, not you.

To your question, a symbol from their religion should be displayed no more than one from Christianity. Neither have a place in front of the courthouse.

[thoss52]

up2 we agreed , unbelievable but we did

[DRMIZER]

There you go! End of story! IT'S THE LAW!

[america]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
There you go! End of story! IT'S THE LAW!

then lets make it a law that everyone is a Christian or get out, that would be a law but it doesn't make it right
slavery was legal

[DRMIZER]

Now that's what scares eveyone. . .You should have helped write the constitution. . . .cause that part was ommited!

You equate not having the 10 commandments in a court house tatmount to slavery? What an analogy. . . .Yeow!

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
then lets make it a law that everyone is a Christian or get out, that would be a law but it doesn't make it right
slavery was legal There's no harm in keeping religion of of government. In fact, it protects you and me very nicely. I am able to practice whatever religion I want and don't have to worry.

On the flip side, there is a real danger in letting the government endorse one religion over another. Our Founding Fathers were wise.

[america]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
Now that's what scares eveyone. . .You should have helped write the constitution. . . .cause that part was ommited!

You equate not having the 10 commandments in a court house tatmount to slavery? What an analogy. . . .Yeow!

no, he told me end of story because it was the law, and I was saying not everything legal is moral, such as slavery. Slavery was legal and if people did not protest and try to stop the bad law we would still have slavery.

Why does the ten commandments bother people?

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
no, he told me end of story because it was the law, and I was saying not everything legal is moral, such as slavery. Slavery was legal and if people did not protest and try to stop the bad law we would still have slavery.

Why does the ten commandments bother people? There's nothing wrong the the Ten Commandments. Put a monument in your house. Put ten of them there. You just can't put one in front of the courthouse because that's akin to that courthouse endorsing that religion. It may not be their intent, but the government can not in any way show a preference to any religion.

It's the law, and it's also right and moral. It's these types of actions that protect our rights to practice whichever religion we choose.

[thoss52]

what bothers people are you kidding ?
if you're atheist or any other religion then Christan its sucks , it says one God , I know of more , it demand we keep holy one day a week ? bit me . it says you're God is real mine is not ? prove it !

it says Christianity is government sanction and that give a person a feeling of exclusion in the government , and unfair treatment likely .

but just wait , Muslim as nasty as they are are the fastest growing religion today , there are more of them in the US then Presbyterians , one day a judge thats Muslim mite want the Koran dis plaid . lets see how you feel about that.

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
but just wait , Muslim as nasty as they are are the fastest growing religion today Please keep your Muslim bashing to yourself. It has no place here.

The rest of your point is solid. That one nugget overshadows your point, and again, it has no place here.

[thoss52]

sorry I'm from America and we believe in free speech as well as personal opinion but if you can prove a people that murder others on the scale that Muslim do in all parts of the world then hey I 'll stop cal;ling them nasty .

can you do that ?

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
sorry I'm from America and we believe in free speech as well as personal opinion but if you can prove a people that murder others on the scale that Muslim do in all parts of the world then hey I 'll stop cal;ling them nasty .

can you do that ? thoss, I am an American as well, and I value free speech. That said, there are anti hate laws, so there is a precedent. Additionally, this is a privately owned message board, and there will be no racism here.

Your participation is welcome, but racists comments are not.

[thoss52]

what a load of liberal crap .
I must like a religion even if it does nothing to stop its extremist in kill my people ?
I can hate anyone I want to , I can not attack or vandalize or harm in any way these people . but no legislation can make me like them .

I'm a tad tired of the social muzzle forced on people .

look, if asked about Christan American terrorist I'd come out against them , the KKK the sward and arm of God the army of God ,ELF I would not keep my yap shout . yet Muslim not only do say nothing against Homos or any terrorist group in fact like I posted they cheered Osoma even to show love for him by naming their kids after him .

free speech is just that speech I will not lie to you , if I don't like someone I'll say so . you can trust my wards .

but come on nasty is bigoted ? I think you are wrong . wait and see if subhuman or worse shows up .

but I don't hate Muslim I don't trust them I don't like them , theres a deference .

heres a story about American Muslims now in jail. they own and ran a little store on Arsenal street , their daughter dated a black kid , they murdered her for it , both the mother and father killed her .

sweet people .

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
what a load of liberal crap .
I must like a religion even if it does nothing to stop its extremist in kill my people ?
I can hate anyone I want to , I can not attack or vandalize or harm in any way these people . but no legislation can make me like them .

I'm a tad tired of the social muzzle forced on people .

look, if asked about Christan American terrorist I'd come out against them , the KKK the sward and arm of God the army of God , I would not keep my yap shout . yet Muslim not only do say nothing against Homos or any terrorist group in fact like I posted they cheered Osoma even to show love for him by naming their kids after him .

free speech is just that speech I will not lie to you , if I don't like someone I'll say so . you can trust my wards .

but come on nasty is bigoted ? I think you are wrong . wait and see if subhuman or worse shows up . You are entitled to like, not like or hate whatever groups you want. That's your right.

But on these boards, you agreed to this (http://www.whistlestopper.com/rules.php) and this (http://www.whistlestopper.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=4) when you signed up. Applying labels to an entire group and using derrogatory terms to describe different groups violates that.

This is not a discussion. If you need further clarification of the rules, contact me directly. I have already wasted too much thread space with this.

[thoss52]

first if calling some people nasty is that big of an infraction then this is not a political board .
and I want mined being bounced off such a board .

if a people act badly as Muslim do I will say so .

[up2date]

thoss, I said I wouldn't comment here anymore, and I won't after this. If you want to continue this, contact me directly, not in here.

Saying bin Laden is nasty = fine
Saying Bush is nasty = fine
Saying all Muslims are nasty = closed minded at best, racist at worst.

All your examples relied on one or two incidents to indict an entire group. They will lead to a flame war, and again, you agreed to the rules when you joined.

We've gone way off topic, and I won't continue here.

[america]

well now, mmmmm

stunned to say the least.


so many thoughts are going on right now. Shall I ignore all that man said? should I go? should I stay and say something?

without getting too personal, that man is angry, it would be good if he could look into himself and find out the root of the anger, under anger there is hurt, he is hurting to feel so angry.

I am going to ignore the Muslim talk, up2date seemed to handle that rather good, hopefully he understood the difference
saying ALL such is such.

I guess we can drop the Ten Commandment discussion for awhile.
but in case thoss is reading this
I don't know what atheism teaches or what you read every day to fulfill your spiritual atheist side,
but if you read Jesus, he stated people have two bodies, one physical and one spiritual, the physical one dies at time of death and the spiritual one will live on, or will be revived, depending on how one interprets the words.
The point is, the earthly body doesn't count so much, we are born without legs, arms, some people are ugly according to society, born in poor countries, suffer an earthly existence.
Having a spiritual body guides your outer body to do good things and to channel your good gifts to others less fortunate.
There is no way of looking at someone and knowing if they are good inside or bad. Spirits can be good in any type of body or bad in any type of body. The flesh is the flesh.
The anger towards Christians even though the teaching of Christ no one could live up to them, much less be angry at what he teaches, there is nothing there that is bad, is equal to your anger at Muslims. Which you say there religion teaches bad things.
Therefore I will conclude you are guilty of what you accused me of, forcing my beliefs on others.
All I am saying is I don't think the commandments are harmful, and if you don't want to read them, don't. I see things every day that I don't want to see.
We have had some of the ten commandments in our court houses for 100 yrs. Some were carved out of limestone by some of our ancestors. It has not been a problem until recent years.
I am saying that American Christians have a right to a heritage and freedom of religion as well as anyone, and they have been rather giving on many issues and I think that the envelope is being pushed and pushed and it will cause more harm than good to force Christianity in the house. There is no endorsing of a religion.
Removing the commandments is just as much following other religions as showing them.
I truly did not mean to inflame the board.

[JD3]

I like this cartoon.

http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/jd/

Does it have a point/

[Captain America]

How about this then? A satirical compromise?

A triangular monument. One side, the Ten Commandments, one side, something equilivent from the Quran, and on the other, The Ten Commandments from the Satanic Bible. Would that be acceptable?

What's WRONG with the Ten Commandments? (http://www.whistlestopper.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=701)

[thoss52]

well america first I'm not angry just opinionated , and next your arrogance is stunning , atheist ? why because I'm not christan ? I'm pagan , compared to me you're the atheist you only believe in one God , and I know you would lose you're little mined if the judge want me faiths quote displayed . for the same reason ,
anger is not part of this , even for those that would let their organs rot in a box rather then help anther . disgusts yes but anger , you give you're self far to much credit .

as for Muslim ? I don't hate any peoples , I don't like them I don't trust them but that the extent and if you are a Christan you got some nerve with the legacy of murder and hate you're faith spews .
but feel free to ignore what you like .
stunned to say the least.


so many thoughts are going on right now. Shall I ignore all that man said? should I go? should I stay and say something?

without getting too personal, that man is angry, it would be good if he could look into himself and find out the root of the anger, under anger there is hurt, he is hurting to feel so angry.

I am going to ignore the Muslim talk, up2date seemed to handle that rather good, hopefully he understood the difference
saying ALL such is such.

I guess we can drop the Ten Commandment discussion for awhile.
but in case thoss is reading this
I don't know what atheism teaches or what you read every day to fulfill your spiritual atheist side,
but if you read Jesus, he stated people have two bodies, one physical and one spiritual, the physical one dies at time of death and the spiritual one will live on, or will be revived, depending on how one interprets the words.
The point is, the earthly body doesn't count so much, we are born without legs, arms, some people are ugly according to society, born in poor countries, suffer an earthly existence.
Having a spiritual body guides your outer body to do good things and to channel your good gifts to others less fortunate.
There is no way of looking at someone and knowing if they are good inside or bad. Spirits can be good in any type of body or bad in any type of body. The flesh is the flesh.
The anger towards Christians even though the teaching of Christ no one could live up to them, much less be angry at what he teaches, there is nothing there that is bad, is equal to your anger at Muslims. Which you say there religion teaches bad things.
Therefore I will conclude you are guilty of what you accused me of, forcing my beliefs on others.
All I am saying is I don't think the commandments are harmful, and if you don't want to read them, don't. I see things every day that I don't want to see.
We have had some of the ten commandments in our court houses for 100 yrs. Some were carved out of limestone by some of our ancestors. It has not been a problem until recent years.
I am saying that American Christians have a right to a heritage and freedom of religion as well as anyone, and they have been rather giving on many issues and I think that the envelope is being pushed and pushed and it will cause more harm than good to force Christianity in the house. There is no endorsing of a religion.
Removing the commandments is just as much following other religions as showing them.
I truly did not mean to inflame the board. [/B][/QUOTE]

[thoss52]

a "christan " from Kansas wanted to erect a monument in a Colorado park celebrating the beating death of Shepard the gay kid that was tied to a fence buy christan boys and beaten to death , it would say here Shepard was killed for angering God and being an abomination he is in hell suffering for his sin .
not the quote but the heart of it , so fowl the parks department refused it and the courts decide to remove a antique crucifix that was already in the park to stop the monument .

hows that for a hateful religion ?
as for the Koran and bible and satan quotes ? that not nearly representative of religion in America . what about mine ? or the Hindus or scientology or new agers or ?
the founding father put in the constitution for a reason separation of church and state , that does not exclude God , they are not the same thing .

[Captain America]

I suppose that Arabic-Muslims would be equally prejudice and generalizing against christians if 19 members of "The American First Church of Christ" flew 4 jets into Mecca, and a few other Arabic landmarks. I mean, they already hate all the jews. Talk about prejudice. No religion is immune from that.

And truly, the christian religions have enough blood on their historical hands as to not be throwing stones but....

Sad as it is to say. With all our technology and advancement, we are still a superstitious enough of a specie to allow the folly of myth, legend, or some mountain moving, sea parting, water into wine, ancient diety belief to guide us into killing our fellow humans over and over and over again.

We were smart enough to eventually eradicate the source of the Black Plague by killing rats and fleas. I wonder why we have never, as a people, stood united against all religions before? Like the rats and fleas, remove the source, prevent the disease!

Just food for thought.:angel:

[thoss52]

the reason they got the black plague was because of the christanm church , it decided cats where failure for witch's and killed them . this bigotry still persist today , fact is the humane society will not adopt out cat black -particularly
but as for hating ? they attacked us remember ? why ? because we sided with Israel ."the friend of our enemy is our enemy " they live n the middle ages there , they threaten there youth for wearing western clothing there . its just not going to work saying well we can make friends ? because all they say they want is the death of American , they even shoot people in their so called holiest city Mecca , other Muslims .

QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain America
I suppose that Arabic-Muslims would be equally prejudice and generalizing against christians if 19 members of "The American First Church of Christ" flew 4 jets into Mecca, and a few other Arabic landmarks. I mean, they already hate all the jews. Talk about prejudice. No religion is immune from that.

And truly, the christian religions have enough blood on their historical hands as to not be throwing stones but....

Sad as it is to say. With all our technology and advancement, we are still a superstitious enough of a specie to allow the folly of myth, legend, or some mountain moving, sea parting, water into wine, ancient diety belief to guide us into killing our fellow humans over and over and over again.

We were smart enough to eventually eradicate the source of the Black Plague by killing rats and fleas. I wonder why we have never, as a people, stood united against all religions before? Like the rats and fleas, remove the source, prevent the disease!

Just food for thought.:angel: [/QUOTE]

[Captain America]

Geeezus... that made me dizzy.

Can somebody help me out here? Translator anyone?

[thoss52]

fine but which one ? the one about Danny Shepard ? or the fact that christan bigotry caused the plague ? I can use larger fonts or simpler wards , but you have to be more direct in your complaint .
new subject:
what worries me about christans and Muslim being brothers born of the same parent religion =Judaism is the extent they will go in the name of religion , thats it .
does anyone here believe Jihad is political war or religious war ,if its religious war then if Islam is not for this then why not come out against it ?
new subject:
now to Shepard this is from Christianity's hate for Gay's , look how hard they are fighting against gay marriages . serving in the military , living .

explanation: the things I posted are true and can be looked up .

but if you can not follow please let me know and I'll help you with the thread that you cant follow . ok ?I hate to see people in a dizzy stupper .

Originally posted by Captain America
Geeezus... that made me dizzy.

Can somebody help me out here? Translator anyone?

[thoss52]

[OK lets try it this way ,

the church in its attacks on the pagan religions killed cats because they associated them with witch's , {so fare ok ?] the cats killed rats and mice but without cats the rodents multiplied and the fleas spread the disease , {questions }
new topic
the Muslim radicals hate us for siding with Israel , they called a religious war Muslim against the west , ok , following yet ? it goes back to " the enemy of my enemy is my friend or in this case the friend of my enemy is my enemy . OK that means if you like the Israelis we hate you . ok? so we don't have to high jack a plane they already hate us , haven't you seen the news where they danced in the streets after 9/11 , started naming their kids after Osoma. .if this is confusing ? please don't bother reading any more of mine ,

QUOTE]Originally posted by thoss52
the reason they got the black plague was because of the christanm church , it decided cats where failure for witch's and killed them . this bigotry still persist today , fact is the humane society will not adopt out cat black -particularly
but as for hating ? they attacked us remember ? why ? because we sided with Israel ."the friend of our enemy is our enemy " they live n the middle ages there , they threaten there youth for wearing western clothing there . its just not going to work saying well we can make friends ? because all they say they want is the death of American , they even shoot people in their so called holiest city Mecca , other Muslims .

QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain America
I suppose that Arabic-Muslims would be equally prejudice and generalizing against christians if 19 members of "The American First Church of Christ" flew 4 jets into Mecca, and a few other Arabic landmarks. I mean, they already hate all the jews. Talk about prejudice. No religion is immune from that.

And truly, the christian religions have enough blood on their historical hands as to not be throwing stones but....

Sad as it is to say. With all our technology and advancement, we are still a superstitious enough of a specie to allow the folly of myth, legend, or some mountain moving, sea parting, water into wine, ancient diety belief to guide us into killing our fellow humans over and over and over again.

We were smart enough to eventually eradicate the source of the Black Plague by killing rats and fleas. I wonder why we have never, as a people, stood united against all religions before? Like the rats and fleas, remove the source, prevent the disease!

Just food for thought.:angel: [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

[thoss52]

Originally posted by thoss52 ok translating this one , a christan preacher [that a guy that runs a church of jesus , in Kansas , thats a city in the state of Kansas .wanted to erect a monument to the beating death of Danny Shepard who was beaten to death by christan boys for being gay . follow ? example of a hate filled religion tho it is not indicative of all christan it does speak of a hate for homosexuals through out Christianity , look at the uproar over a gay Bishop . over gay marriage ? OK that should help you Little
a "christan " from Kansas wanted to erect a monument in a Colorado park celebrating the beating death of Shepard the gay kid that was tied to a fence buy christan boys and beaten to death , it would say here Shepard was killed for angering God and being an abomination he is in hell suffering for his sin .
not the quote but the heart of it , so fowl the parks department refused it and the courts decide to remove a antique crucifix that was already in the park to stop the monument .

hows that for a hateful religion ? you're idea of covering the religions does not meet all religions the three you mention does not represent all of the religions in America and really why should we permit any monuments to all or any religion ?
new subject:
as for the Koran and bible and satan quotes ? that not nearly representative of religion in America . what about mine ? or the Hindus or scientology or new agers or ?
the founding father put in the constitution for a reason separation of church and state , that does not exclude God , they are not the same thing .

[Captain America]

{so fare ok ?]
I can use larger fonts or simpler wards

Oh! I get it now! Homeskooled!:p :p

Nitemare, is this you? Naw....can't be.

Hey, I follow your logic and agree with you on most points, I am just having a bit of trouble deciphering your words and sentence structure. I'm slow, but I'll get there.;)

[thoss52]

nightmare? I don't understand that .

home schooled ? no catholic grade school then public. ?

[up2date]

This is all very interesting. I forget, where do you stand on the Ten Commandments monument?

[Captain America]

nitemare is an old friend from another forum. Long story. I don't think you'd understand without having been there.

I am from Texas. English is my second language. I wasn't afforded the benefit of Catholic education so please be patient with me.:lol:

[america]

Originally posted by Captain America
nitemare is an old friend from another forum. Long story. I don't think you'd understand without having been there.

I am from Texas. English is my second language. I wasn't afforded the benefit of Catholic education so please be patient with me.:lol:

a nightmare once is a nightmare twice, quote me on that if you want.

thoss, excuse me for saying you were angry, let me reword it, you sound angry

why do you critique only muslim and christianity, lets be equal and fair and here you critique the jewish religion

a christian did not want to put up a monument to honor the killing of matt shepard,
thou shalt not kill? remember that is a christian thing, let me add we did not change it and play with it to say thou shalt not murder
anyone who says they are a christian and kills is not following the christian religion, blame the person not the religion

i dont know who the master mind was on sept 11, until i have prove who planned it and payed for it, I am not letting anyone off the hook, who knows it could have been 'christian, jew, atheist' that paid for the hijackers, but i do know the mastermind was not on the planes.

since you brought up columbine, do not forget that claybolt SP? was jewish and he asked who in here is a christian, one of his classmates, a girl stood up and said "I am" and he shot her in the face. That is okay and not a hate crime? see the problem with hate crimes is that they are selective.

let those who are without sin throw the first stone, anything you say about one group I can give ten examples on another
learn to leave out generalizations.

I would agree to take the ten commandments down, if we get rid of all the religious symbols out of the government, including the carving of moses over the superior court building, and if we rid the buildings of the ten commandments that are in hebrew from buildings that are government

it looks a bit suspicious when according to the jewish religion, they are to take out 'false Gods" from the nations
gentiles are not to read the ten commandments
but gentiles are to follow the noahide laws

it just seems to convenient that the ten commandments are out, noahide is in, and the ten commandments in hebrew are left in .
to avoid suspicion and to be fair
take it all out.

[up2date]

Originally posted by america
it looks a bit suspicious when according to the jewish religion, they are to take out 'false Gods" from the nations
gentiles are not to read the ten commandments
but gentiles are to follow the noahide laws

it just seems to convenient that the ten commandments are out, noahide is in, and the ten commandments in hebrew are left in .
to avoid suspicion and to be fair
take it all out. The Noahide Laws you keep referring have nothing to do with it. As I said, no religious symbol should be there. And, as you probably are aware, the Ten Commandments are from the old testament.

[america]

Originally posted by up2date
The Noahide Laws you keep referring have nothing to do with it. As I said, no religious symbol should be there. And, as you probably are aware, the Ten Commandments are from the old testament.

we agree to disagree? I think the Noahide laws have quite a bit to do with it,
if we are using the first ammendment which reads "shall make no law RESPECTING a religion" the Noahide laws break this ammendment WAY more than having the Ten Commandments placed in the court house.

The Ten Commandments are said to be from the old Testament, but if you read the old testament it comes down to more like 613 commandments.
When Jesus arrived on the scene the Jewish people said, 'hey! we can't do all this' so then Jesus said then at least follow these ten, and if that is too much for you, then follow these 2.
He could not have been more fair.
The Ten Commandments Judge Moore placed are not the same one's I would have placed but so be it.
But I would be more than willing to take it ALL out and start with the carving of Moses, put it in a museum.

[Captain America]

? remember that is a christian thing, let me add we did not change it and play with it to say thou shalt not murder

To be precice, the opposite happened actually. It was "changed and played with" from "Thou shalt not murder" to "Thou shalt not kill."

Look it up.

[thoss52]

first if you want me to criticize Jews ? OK , hard to do without taking a wake at Christan's too but here goes , Jews and Israelis are really not the same in fact it was the Israelis that tuck the Jews in slavery and sold them to the Babylonians , but the Jews use to practice ethnic cleansing . look at the book of Ruth , .
as for modern times ? I feel their wrong in the settlement issue , they cant expect peace and build settlement in other lands , if their serous they should remove all of them .but really Jews and Palestinians don't want peace every time they get close a terrorist murders civilians , Sheron starts up with the building settlements , as for the Jewish religion ? as any other it seem OK for them . OK Wicca , to many fluff bunny's . Hindus , they gave one practiced I don't like , at age 50 a man gives all of his possession away and lives out a life of poverty and enlightenment , the bad thing is the wife gets nothing , all the possession without regard .
new agers , LIL deluded . Buddhist ? got nothing I like Buddhist . look I could fined fault in every faith , so what ? I would never say leave youres , just keep it out of my face thats all . I only got on Islam because they asked me to by saying "what do you know about Islam . remember every religion is made up , by men not God ,so they have to be flowed

QUOTE]Originally posted by america
a nightmare once is a nightmare twice, quote me on that if you want.

thoss, excuse me for saying you were angry, let me reword it, you sound angry

why do you critique only muslim and christianity, lets be equal and fair and here you critique the jewish religion

a christian did not want to put up a monument to honor the killing of matt shepard,
thou shalt not kill? remember that is a christian thing, let me add we did not change it and play with it to say thou shalt not murder
anyone who says they are a christian and kills is not following the christian religion, blame the person not the religion

i dont know who the master mind was on sept 11, until i have prove who planned it and payed for it, I am not letting anyone off the hook, who knows it could have been 'christian, jew, atheist' that paid for the hijackers, but i do know the mastermind was not on the planes.

since you brought up columbine, do not forget that claybolt SP? was jewish and he asked who in here is a christian, one of his classmates, a girl stood up and said "I am" and he shot her in the face. That is okay and not a hate crime? see the problem with hate crimes is that they are selective.

let those who are without sin throw the first stone, anything you say about one group I can give ten examples on another
learn to leave out generalizations.

I would agree to take the ten commandments down, if we get rid of all the religious symbols out of the government, including the carving of moses over the superior court building, and if we rid the buildings of the ten commandments that are in hebrew from buildings that are government

it looks a bit suspicious when according to the jewish religion, they are to take out 'false Gods" from the nations
gentiles are not to read the ten commandments
but gentiles are to follow the noahide laws

it just seems to convenient that the ten commandments are out, noahide is in, and the ten commandments in hebrew are left in .
to avoid suspicion and to be fair
take it all out. [/QUOTE]

[america]

Originally posted by Captain America
? remember that is a christian thing, let me add we did not change it and play with it to say thou shalt not murder

To be precice, the opposite happened actually. It was "changed and played with" from "Thou shalt not murder" to "Thou shalt not kill."

Look it up.

Jesus changed it. But in the world of scholars they are saying Christians changed it. Some Christians have backslid, in fact most, and use the term.
Jesus changed it to kill in order that we don't play with words,
it is rather a simple order.
In fact he went on to say if you even think about killing someone it is sinful

[thoss52]

LOL really ?
what about all the pagans Christan's killed ? for everything from heresy to refusal to convert , Charlemagne the butcher ? he kill 200 men woman and children's for not converting in one day and at the end he couldn't left his sward arm ? the burning times ? and look at the Jewish religion ? what did they do to the Canaanites ?
not kill? king James " suffer not the life of a witch " or the catholic bible , suffer not the life of a poisoner " both call for killing , where does tho shalt not kill come into play ?

Originally posted by america
Jesus changed it. But in the world of scholars they are saying Christians changed it. Some Christians have backslid, in fact most, and use the term.
Jesus changed it to kill in order that we don't play with words,
it is rather a simple order.
In fact he went on to say if you even think about killing someone it is sinful

[Captain America]

:D :p :lol: :rofl: :beer: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Somehow I find it hard to visualize "Jesus" penning the "Holy Bible"

Tell me. What was Jesus's real name?

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Captain America
:D :p :lol: :rofl: :beer: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Somehow I find it hard to visualize "Jesus" penning the "Holy Bible"

Tell me. What was Jesus's real name?
William J.C. Penn!

[Captain America]

The Talmud records his name as Y'shua ben Panthera, the Qumran's record it as Y'shua (Joshua) ben Yehweh.

It's amazing to me how many "Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it," christians there are out there that think his actual name was "Jesus Christ," and then they expect me to put stock into all the rest of the mumbo jumbo they tell me.

It is quite humorous actually. But one must be polite and keep their humor in low breath.;)

[DRMIZER]

Originally posted by Captain America
The Talmud records his name as Y'shua ben Panthera, the Qumran's record it as Y'shua (Joshua) ben Yehweh.


How many Christians do you know who could pronounce that name? See? JC is easier and gets right to the point. Besides, don't confuse me with the facts.

[america]

Originally posted by Captain America
The Talmud records his name as Y'shua ben Panthera, the Qumran's record it as Y'shua (Joshua) ben Yehweh.

It's amazing to me how many "Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it," christians there are out there that think his actual name was "Jesus Christ," and then they expect me to put stock into all the rest of the mumbo jumbo they tell me.

It is quite humorous actually. But one must be polite and keep their humor in low breath.;)

"christians out there" see? if I said "jews out there" i would be accused of being antisemite or hate speech or whatever the special of the day is, when all else fails slander.
anyway

I think it is funny that the people who deliverd christ to be crucified played your little game with christ himself, picking on his words and following him around trying to trick him, trying to catch him doing something contrary to Jewish law. Asking him who he was, harrassing and stalking him and killing him, "let his blood be on us and our generations"
and their generations are still picking and dissecting gnats with their words and become so angry at the thought of Jesus,
as Jesus stated
"you don't want to go to heaven and you don't want anyone else to either'
He was a pretty clever guy, he also said Jerusalem would be doomed and it was and will be
he also said people who don't believe in Him, it is because He blinded them from his word, HE DOESNT WANT THEM TO ,
HE DOESNT WANT THEM
therefore I would never force Jesus on anyone. those who laugh first laugh last,
he also discussed people who thought they were so high minded and intelligent yet they could not discern God:lol: :lol: :lol:

[america]

Originally posted by DRMIZER
How many Christians do you know who could pronounce that name? See? JC is easier and gets right to the point. Besides, don't confuse me with the facts.

yes all goys are stupid
btw MOST christians were Jews first
carry on

[DRMIZER]

OI!

[thoss52]

Originally posted by america
yes all goys are stupid
btw MOST christians were Jews first
carry on
what ? its not that hard , first no J in Hebrew , next it was against the Christan rules to let goys or non Jews in , until Sal had his epileptic fit and was converted , they wanted power and riches , for Christan that really want to learn how and who they were read "The Nag Hammadi Library " it straight translation not influenced by religion like the dead sea scrolls were .

sorry the computers acting up .

jesus is a Greek name as is christ . but Hebrew is not that hard a language like any other you just have to know the rules of grammar .
being a Kabalist it had to be understood to a point , Yiddish is not . but proper pouncing is important .

[Captain America]

I believe, if I am not mistaken, "Christ" is merely a title and not a given name. But I'm not that much into Greek :lol:

I could be wrong.

[DRMIZER]

Jesus of Nazarath = THE Christ