"Kramer's" Racist meltdown

[Sidgaf]

Kramer's New, Racist Material Not Exactly A Hit At The Laugh Factory

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/michael-richards/kramers-new-racist-material-not-exactly-a-hit-at-the-laugh-factory-216093.php


Mel Gibson eats your heart out.

[::Major_Baker::]

VEry inappropriate. That sucks, I would have been pissed TOO, if I were that guy.

[Tokyoman]

Wow. I wonder if it had been a black man making racist jokes about white people if it would have bombed so bad though?

[rjamortega]

All Richard's has to do is speak out against the war and the Admin, show up at some gay rights rallies and push the virtues of Al Gore's movie, and his little outburst will quietly go away.

[Turenne]

Of course not.In fact thats more then acceptable-people would just laugh

But then again I don't think there is any word on this earth with greater emotional connations then the word '******'.

[Tokyoman]

All Richard's has to do is speak out against the war and the Admin, show up at some gay rights rallies and push the virtues of Al Gore's movie, and his little outburst will quietly go away.

Is that what Mel Gibson did? I remember he said something about war.

[Turenne]

Mel was drunk and started ranting to a policeman about the 'evil's of the Jews.

And nobody forgot,nor should they,people have been out in jail for less this side of the atlantic.The idea of that scumbag anti-semite Mel going to a gay pride rally is brilliant though...

[Sulayman]

If Chris Rock had said something like that about whites, no one would have commented. Why is that?

[chukster8614]

If Chris Rock had said something like that about whites, no one would have commented. Why is that?
Hmm, maybe because Chris Rock is funny?

[Tired Panda]

Because Chris Rock talks about being robbed... not by black people, but by *******. (Slur for black people)

[Michele]

Of course not.In fact thats more then acceptable-people would just laugh

But then again I don't think there is any word on this earth with greater emotional connations then the word '******'.


and of course whites in america weren't strung up and castrated because uh they were our country's ORIGINAL racists. I find it so interesting (and I am not referring to you but another in the thread) how differently some folk (who are so sensitive when it comes to anti-semitism) react to a racist outburst aimed at blacks versus those same kind of outbursts (whether real like that of Gibson or imagined criticisms misdefined as anti-semitism) when aimed at Jews or criticism when larged in reference to israel.

[Michele]

If Chris Rock had said something like that about whites, no one would have commented. Why is that?

is that a for real question? look any culture has more tolerance for slurs expressed within ones own culture by someone of ones own including the most inflamatory perjoratives than for the same slurs when spewed by folks from outside any given culture.

There was nothing redeeming about Richards outburst he was WAY out of line. however I can see that is just a matter of my own opinion, rather than a collective concensus. Might also be why the incident didn't go down so well.

oh well. In the meantime the incident has now escalated and he has been banned from performing at the laugh factory.

[brainpan]

This was no Mel Gibson-esque outburst accussing one group of people ruining it for everyone else. I think Richards was going for edgy and couldn't decide how to tie it all together without it becoming ugliness pure. He's not good dealing with hecklers.

And the heckler was pure scum, exactly the kind of selfish bastard I hate more than any other. People paid good money to see the show, but he decided it was A-OK to interrupt it and try to talk over Richards. If I were owner of the club, I would have showed Richards and the audience some respect and bounced the heckler stat, and bounced him "hard," so to speak.

If Richards apologized and explained himself, I would tend to believe his sincerity. And look who his friends are, Julia Louis Dreyfus and Jerry Seinfeld would not buddy up to a racist.

[rwojciak]

What a tragedy. He's obviously harbored these racist views for quite some time.

I sympathize with his lashing out at members of the audience who were being rude, but his retaliation was totally inappropriate. Rude hecklers come in all races.

A big problem with the race issue in America is that discourse about the subject is usually conducted from one side towards the other. Neither side has the right to judge the other, and no criticism originating from one side and projected towards the other is ever constructive.

Take this girl for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJw_uhCruxg

While she has a right to be angry, her comments will only serve to incite anger.

She'd do much more for the greater good by aiming her comments at Kramer.

Some might wonder what would happen if a black comedian said such things to white people. Keep in mind that there exists no word in the english language that commands the magnitude of insult that ni**er does. Although if there were, and the comedian used it, the crowd would be just as deserving of compliment as Kramer's was for remaining civil and simply walking out.

[DPlague]

I think Richards was way out of line. Even if he was annoyed with the hecklers there're much better ways of handling them than by using a racial slur as you yell at them.

[Djj1973]

First Screech with the sex tape and now this. Why wont the d-listers die in peace? I think this rant was planned in advance knowing that he would make the news. ALA Mel Screech etc. Let me guess next stop a trip to the nearest secluded detox.

[brainpan]

Some might wonder what would happen if a black comedian said such things to white people.And you were right helping them to see the light. My take is slightly different, but we end up at the same place. By asking how the situation would be different if Kramer was black, people are throwing a little support to what Kramer said, whether that was the intent or not. It is OK to just denounce bad behavior, we don't need to always remind people what they already know, that someone else is behaving badly also. You were also right about the angry white chick. Her type of response is part of the problem.

[rwojciak]

How long until he's got a job at FOX next to Mark Furman?

[Sulayman]

So no one will say why its okay for Chris Rock to say the very same things about whites but not for this guy to do it with blacks?

Interesting. Its racism either way and not comedy as someone here alledged. Chris Rock isn't funny, he's cynical and in a way pathetic.

[rwojciak]

So no one will say why its okay for Chris Rock to say the very same things about whites but not for this guy to do it with blacks?

Interesting. Its racism either way and not comedy as someone here alledged. Chris Rock isn't funny, he's cynical and in a way pathetic.

Nothing Chris Rock can say would insult white people the way Richard's comments insulted his audience.

[Eddie]

So no one will say why its okay for Chris Rock to say the very same things about whites but not for this guy to do it with blacks?

I`m not very familiar with this Chris Rock character, but perhaps it`s because it is more acceptable to kick upwards rather than downwards. I have no problem with jokes about Swedish stereotyped behaviour but I have more problem with jokes about Jewish stereotyped behaviour. Just like I have no problem with tasteless jokes about celeberties, politicians, union-bosses, executives or athletes, but more problem with tasteless jokes about janitors, nurses, disabled, unemployed or terminal ill people.

[ScummyD]

Kramer's New, Racist Material Not Exactly A Hit At The Laugh Factory

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/michael-richards/kramers-new-racist-material-not-exactly-a-hit-at-the-laugh-factory-216093.php


Mel Gibson eats your heart out.
Holy ****, Batman!!!

Wow. That was nuts. Nothing in that looked like comedy.

[chukster8614]

Nothing Chris Rock can say would insult white people the way Richard's comments insulted his audience.
And besides, Chris Rock would have a clever, well-thought out joke — not to mention a socially relevant point — attached to whatever he would be saying about white people.

Whereas Richards experienced a freaked out, emotionally charged meltdown in reaction to a couple of audience members who were merely heckling him. Although the words, "you're not funny" or "you suck," are about the worst words any performer could ever hear, you would think a professional comedian could come back with something better than a vile, racist rant.

[Molls]

So no one will say why its okay for Chris Rock to say the very same things about whites but not for this guy to do it with blacks?

Interesting. Its racism either way and not comedy as someone here alledged. Chris Rock isn't funny, he's cynical and in a way pathetic.

Good comedy or bad comedy, Chris Rock is still telling a joke

If Chris Rock had a melt down and started screaming racial insults at specific audience members, I'd bet people would be equally as upset.

Richards wasn't telling a joke, he was angrly hurling racial insults at somone.

[chukster8614]

dupe post

[rjamortega]

You know, this and the ruckus raised over the Gibson affair are so annoying. The two situations are exactly alike. Both men harbor levels of prejudice that rise to the surface under manipulation of alchohol, stress, psychological illness, or some combination of the three. But big deal. We all hold some level of prejudice within ourselves. I can't think of ethnic, social and political groups that don't irritate me in some form or manner. Sure, I attribute their various traits to some silly generality that makes sense only to me. But then my sensible side pushes these thoughts aside with the knowledge that all are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But who knows what might fall out of my mouth should I develope a drinking problem or some psychic insecurity.

Big deal. Send them to a shrink and let 'em learn about themselves and deal with the reduction in ticket sales.;)

[The Big Bog]

Well I for one can't stand it when I pay good money to go to a concert or any kind of live performance and some jerkwad in the audience thinks the price of his admission includes the right to flap his jaws nonstop throughout the show. Dude, I paid to come in here and listen to the people who are on the stage. Not YOU. This is pretty much why I gave up even going to live performances--there are way too many tactless dimwits out there intent on ruining a good night out with all the civility and manners of barnyard animals ... (yours truly excepted).

Oh ... and Richards overreacted. I just would have told the guy: "Look, you're either going to shut the **** up or I am personally going to come up there and knock your fat mouth into next week."

[::Major_Baker::]

Well I for one can't stand it when I pay good money to go to a concert or any kind of live performance and some jerkwad in the audience thinks the price of his admission includes the right to flap his jaws nonstop throughout the show. Dude, I paid to come in here and listen to the people who are on the stage. Not YOU. This is pretty much why I gave up even going to live performances--there are way too many tactless dimwits out there intent on ruining a good night out with all the civility and manners of barnyard animals ... (yours truly excepted).

Oh ... and Richards overreacted. I just would have told the guy: "Look, you're either going to shut the **** up or I am personally going to come up there and knock your fat mouth into next week."

yes, using terroristic threats is much more tactful...
Cows have no sense of restraint these days.

[The Big Bog]

yes, using terroristic threats is much more tactful...
Cows have no sense of restraint these days.

:shrug: Act like a heathen, get treated like a heathen.

[ukangel]

Hmm, maybe because Chris Rock is funny?

Chris Rock is incredibly critical of sections of the black community, he says a lot of things that a white comedian wouldnt dare say. Do a search on youtube.

[Turenne]

and of course whites in america weren't strung up and castrated because uh they were our country's ORIGINAL racists. I find it so interesting (and I am not referring to you but another in the thread) how differently some folk (who are so sensitive when it comes to anti-semitism) react to a racist outburst aimed at blacks versus those same kind of outbursts (whether real like that of Gibson or imagined criticisms misdefined as anti-semitism) when aimed at Jews or criticism when larged in reference to israel.

I'm not sure this is supposed to be aimed at me or not.I find both Kramer and Gibson's remarks abhorrent.My point was that racist attacks against blacks in the US tend to get a completely different reaction to attacks against whites.Not surprising at all but bot acceptable either.

[brainpan]

Well I for one can't stand it when I pay good money to go to a concert or any kind of live performance and some jerkwad in the audience thinks the price of his admission includes the right to flap his jaws nonstop throughout the show.Damn straight.
Dude, I paid to come in here and listen to the people who are on the stage. Not YOU. This is pretty much why I gave up even going to live performances--there are way too many tactless dimwits out there intent on ruining a good night out with all the civility and manners of barnyard animals ... (yours truly excepted).I'm feeling your pain.
Oh ... and Richards overreacted. I just would have told the guy: "Look, you're either going to shut the **** up or I am personally going to come up there and knock your fat mouth into next week."Too bad the owner of the place wasn't on hand to have the hecklers removed--the hard way--with a call to the police in case they needed to be arrested on charges of trespassing, disturbing the peace, or what have you.

[brainpan]

Chris Rock is incredibly critical of sections of the black community, he says a lot of things that a white comedian wouldnt dare say. Do a search on youtube.That's a vaid point, and something that should be considered. Just keep in mind that the worst racists tend to say negative things about their own race to deflect criticism of the ugly comments they make about groups of people they hate.

[prst31]

I see no defense for Michael. He needs to own his words and seek help.

[chukster8614]

Ya' know, I've been wondering ... could this be a cynical ploy to resurrect a forgotten career, albeit in an appallingly sleazy and underhanded way?

Seriously, I mean, who on this board was thinking of that 'Kramer' guy a week ago today? Next thing you know there's this vile rant and then a remorseful apology on Letterman.

Just putting that out there.

[prst31]

Nah, he was boiling over from his gut. He needs some serious introspection.

[chukster8614]

Yeah, you're right. I suppose I just speculated on that because, quite frankly, not much surprises me these days.

[ScummyD]

Nah, he was boiling over from his gut.
I wonder what he meant by "it shocks you to see what's buried beneath you MFers..." or how ever it went.

It certainly appears that he let loose with what is buried within him.

I wonder how much if at all he wishes he was on stage so many years ago and, assuming a black person would even be in the club, could in fact call for the ousting of a person from a public place in such a manner. It seems to me that Richards indeed did wish he could have the guy tossed out. The way he acted appeared more real than an act.

[prst31]

I wonder how much if at all he wishes he was on stage so many years ago and, assuming a black person would even be in the club, could in fact call for the ousting of a person from a public place in such a manner. It seems to me that Richards indeed did wish he could have the guy tossed out. The way he acted appeared more real than an act.God I hope not, but definitely there's no telling for sure.

[steveksux]

Take this girl for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJw_uhCruxg

While she has a right to be angry, her comments will only serve to incite anger. .Its just a strawman now released on video. She's outraged over these outrageous comments... by a black man! Oooohh. double standard.... white people couldn't get away with that. etc.. what's the world coming to... yadda yadda yadda

Newsflash. KKK rallies have people spouting the same stuff in reverse. Its decried and denounced by the vast majority of people also, no matter whether its black on white, or white on black. Nothing to see here. Move along...

Nuts come in a lot of varieties.

Randy

[steveksux]

If Chris Rock had said something like that about whites, no one would have commented. Why is that?Because we wouldn't have to wonder whether Chris Rock really secretly hates black people or was simply making a joke.

Duh!

Randy

[steveksux]

yes, using terroristic threats is much more tactful...
Cows have no sense of restraint these days.That cow is acting more like a bull! Really must have gotten under her skin to get that sort of reaction! ;) I don't think I've ever seen her this worked up...

Randy

[The Big Bog]

That cow is acting more like a bull! Really must have gotten under her skin to get that sort of reaction! ;) I don't think I've ever seen her this worked up...

Randy

Hey, loudmouths are one of my biggest pet peeves, second only to people who drive slow in the fast lane. Nothing blows my gasket any quicker than people intent on infringing on my Constitutional right to peace and quiet. ;)

[steveksux]

Its hard for me to judge the video clip, actually. I haven't seen his act before. I'd want to see the rest of the act from this night, see what his demeanor is throughout that. It makes a huge difference if his schtick is all loud boisterous insulting stuff ala Sam Kineson, and this clip is in character (but turned ugly), or if he's more like Stephen Wright, very deadpan throughout, and then suddenly erupted like this from a heckler.

But my gut feeling is I don't see an out of control rant. I see a guy doing an imitation of an out of control rant, a sort of Sam Kinesonish bit in reaction to a heckler. He gets quiet. He gets loud. So I see control. I don't think he's out of control, I think its schtick that backfired.

I think he's watched Def Comedy Jam, Chris Rock too many times, thought it was funny, and internalized it. On the spur of the moment, in response to a heckler, he popped out his own version of it, his own take on the Chris Rock school of comedy in a moment of improv that was doomed from the start because he doesn't have the required license to do that style of humor. And it backfired. Big time.

Obviously that's based on my assumption as to what his normal schtick looks like, and that its in character with the "outburst", so that this clip is taken out of context.

So no, at this point I'm not convinced that Richards is any more racist than anybody else. But I could be once I see what his normal schtick looks like, and I'm not saying you guys that think he's out of control are necessarily wrong. It certainly looks that way, unquestionably if it isn't an act.

As to the appropriateness of the topic and content of his "outburst"? Way out of line, no contest. Chris Rock could have pulled it off. Not Micheal Richards. And its not just because he's white, its because he's white and its only 2006.

My wife is black. Surprisingly enough, so are my inlaws. Known them for going on 20 years. I'm pretty sure they don't think I'm predjudiced. Still, I would not feel comfortable doing that type of humor in front of them, let alone in front of a crowd of strangers. When they start throwing the "N" word around in jest, even in a friendly manner, I do not feel comfortable joining in. I doubt they would be pissed, but they would not be laughing either. The word is too painful, to much a slap in the face. Even a joking "N***** , puhlease!" to express disbelief, even just to my wife in jest, is just not quite funny, and would be more than a little uncomfortable.

Not to mention its not something I would want to get comfortable with, or in the habit of saying, so that I might blurt it out innocently to someone who doesn't know me well or my history and takes offense. Or kicks my a**. But the point is, its pretty much guaranteed to be out of bounds for another generation or two.

When racism is truly extinct, relegated to a blurb in the history books, like WWII is to high school students, maybe then the word will lose its sting and not be such a big deal. As long as racism still exists, as long as "they" stilll experience it regularly, that word still instantly brings up the reaction to the worst abuses racism has had to offer over the last century when uttered by the wrong person. Are "they" being overly sensitive? Not when that open would is regularly being poked and prodded and the scab being torn off periodically. Not when you consider they're still getting screwed in ways large and small on a relatively regular basis. People are much better at hiding racism nowadays since its out of fashion. That isn't necessarily an improvement, and doens't mean it doesn't exist.

It brings up the interesting point that if racism really DID disappear today, would random slights and angry outbursts that are coincidently directed at people of other races tomorrow continue to be mistaken for racism? How would we really know when racism went extinct? Its based as much on perceptions as it is on reality... of what ratio we cannot know for sure.

Randy

[steveksux]

Hey, loudmouths are one of my biggest pet peeves, second only to people who drive slow in the fast lane. Nothing blows my gasket any quicker than people intent on infringing on my Constitutional right to peace and quiet. ;)
And speed! (me too!. If you want to do 80mph, go ahead, just stay to the right so I can pass...).

Randy

[spork]

Richards is supposed to be a professional. If that's the case, he should not be so easily undone by a couple of hecklers.

It's not the use of the "N" word that is so offensive, it's his comments on lynching. No matter how the touchy "what if a black guy said this about white people" people try, there is no parallel. Blacks haven't owned white slaves in the US, and they haven't put on robes and lynched white folks.

Richards was a has been, and now he's relegated to being a dishwasher. No sympathy here.

[Turenne]

I`m not very familiar with this Chris Rock character, but perhaps it`s because it is more acceptable to kick upwards rather than downwards. I have no problem with jokes about Swedish stereotyped behaviour but I have more problem with jokes about Jewish stereotyped behaviour. Just like I have no problem with tasteless jokes about celeberties, politicians, union-bosses, executives or athletes, but more problem with tasteless jokes about janitors, nurses, disabled, unemployed or terminal ill people.

I'm not sure I get your thinking here.Aren't you pre supposing that Swedish Jews in your country are in an inferior social and economic position to Swedish christians?

Maybe the point is that Jews and Blacks historically have been heavily repressed by white christian majority and so such racist remarks by said majority could be seen as far more dangerous then racist remarks towards said majority.

[Atticus]

If Chris Rock had said something like that about whites, no one would have commented. Why is that?To defend himself against a charge of racism, all Rock has to do is say to the white heckler, "So you want to trade places with me?" As he has said, "even the blind, handicapped white guy making minimum wage doesn't want to trade places, with me--and I'm rich." (or words to that effect)

[ScummyD]

Well that makes no sense.

[brainpan]

SteveSux has offered the best analysis. The Big Bog has the most legitimate gripe. Scummy D has the best retort.

[The_Penguin]

Seems like the moron has a history of this crap.

http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/22/richards-rant-not-the-first-time/

I'm guessing that latinos are next.

[brainpan]

He isn't a moron, but something is wrong with him. I think he was trying to be funny with his quip about Jews.

This is starting to remind me of the "man on the moon" guy, Andy what's-his-name. Another comedian who fell apart amid disturbing and inexplicable performances. Richards doesn't strike me as racist, but confused and unbalanced instead. I think he needs help.

[The_Penguin]

He isn't a moron, but something is wrong with him. I think he was trying to be funny with his quip about Jews.

This is starting to remind me of the "man on the moon" guy, Andy what's-his-name. Another comedian who fell apart amid disturbing and inexplicable performances. Richards doesn't strike me as racist, but confused and unbalanced instead. I think he needs help.
Perhaps.

[mcrocket]

In the grand scheme of things, no big deal to me.

Blacks often call each other n****r. Why can a white guy not do it?

[Eddie]

I'm not sure I get your thinking here.Aren't you pre supposing that Swedish Jews in your country are in an inferior social and economic position to Swedish christians?

Social positions, yes. Economic position, no. Sadly there are still anti-semitism in Sweden and I think most Swedish jews encounter this while growing up. It`s not as apparant as the prejudice towards immigrants, muslims or gypsies and I bet many ethnic swedes would deny it`s prelevence but it certainly exist.

Maybe the point is that Jews and Blacks historically have been heavily repressed by white christian majority and so such racist remarks by said majority could be seen as far more dangerous then racist remarks towards said majority.

It`s not only about history (even though I think you have a point that history is an important factor), but also prevailing repression and prejudice.

[Crosscheck]

He isn't a moron, but something is wrong with him. I think he was trying to be funny with his quip about Jews.

This is starting to remind me of the "man on the moon" guy, Andy what's-his-name. Another comedian who fell apart amid disturbing and inexplicable performances. Richards doesn't strike me as racist, but confused and unbalanced instead. I think he needs help.


That was Andy Kaufman , one of the most mysterious individuals to appear on tv. Kaufman's outbursts were completely planned out and still today people have a hard time establishing what was real and what was faked. Supposedly Kaufman's tiff with wrestler Jerry Lawler was also faked which I took hook, line, and sinker.
Kaufman even had a tiff with Michael Richards:
In 1981, Kaufman made a couple of memorable appearances on Fridays, a variety show on ABC that was similar to SNL. Kaufman's first appearance on the show proved to be the most memorable one. During a sketch about four people out on a dinner date who excuse themselves to the restroom to smoke marijuana, Kaufman broke character and refused to say his lines.

The other comedians were embarrassed by the position that Kaufman had put them in on a live television show. In response, Michael Richards walked off camera and returned with a set of cue cards and dumped them on the table in front of Kaufman. Andy responded by splashing Michael Richards with water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Kaufman

[USA-1]

That was Andy Kaufman , one of the most mysterious individuals to appear on tv. Kaufman's outbursts were completely planned out and still today people have a hard time establishing what was real and what was faked. Supposedly Kaufman's tiff with wrestler Jerry Lawler was also faked which I took hook, line, and sinker.
Kaufman even had a tiff with Michael Richards:
In 1981, Kaufman made a couple of memorable appearances on Fridays, a variety show on ABC that was similar to SNL. Kaufman's first appearance on the show proved to be the most memorable one. During a sketch about four people out on a dinner date who excuse themselves to the restroom to smoke marijuana, Kaufman broke character and refused to say his lines.

The other comedians were embarrassed by the position that Kaufman had put them in on a live television show. In response, Michael Richards walked off camera and returned with a set of cue cards and dumped them on the table in front of Kaufman. Andy responded by splashing Michael Richards with water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Kaufman

Jim Carey was right on the money playing Kaufman in the movie "Man in the Moon." Andy Kaufman was playing a joke on the entire world and all the wresling stuff with Lawler was an act. Even the Letterman bit.

[PurplePig]

oops. (deleted)

[ScummyD]

Nope. Because apparently there is no such thing as racist 'colored people' in America today... or ever actually.
I have even seen the House Liberal around here claim that it is impossible for a minority to be racist.

[Aly Liz]

Richards is supposed to be a professional. If that's the case, he should not be so easily undone by a couple of hecklers.

It's not the use of the "N" word that is so offensive, it's his comments on lynching. No matter how the touchy "what if a black guy said this about white people" people try, there is no parallel. Blacks haven't owned white slaves in the US, and they haven't put on robes and lynched white folks.

Richards was a has been, and now he's relegated to being a dishwasher. No sympathy here.

So youre saying that because white people owned slaves that justifies black people being racist?

[ScummyD]

Black people owned slaves, as well.

[Dangerrmouse]

So that magically excuses his racist tirade? Fine.

[Aly Liz]

So that magically excuses his racist tirade? Fine.

shut up

[Dangerrmouse]

shut up


Do you support the racist rant?

[ScummyD]

shut up

I,ve never seen such a thing around here.

[brainpan]

That was Andy Kaufman , one of the most mysterious individuals to appear on tv. Kaufman's outbursts were completely planned out and still today people have a hard time establishing what was real and what was faked. Supposedly Kaufman's tiff with wrestler Jerry Lawler was also faked which I took hook, line, and sinker.
Kaufman even had a tiff with Michael Richards.That's an interesting piece of trivia. It makes me wonder if Richards was inspired by the event.

[steveksux]

SteveSux has offered the best analysis.Maybe if I'm right... Its more of a gut feeling than anything else. Not even necessarily the most likely explanation given the available facts... But thanks for the vote of confidence... :flowers:

Randy

[USA-1]

The black people in the audience are suing Richards now.

[rjamortega]

Richards is supposed to be a professional. If that's the case, he should not be so easily undone by a couple of hecklers.

It's not the use of the "N" word that is so offensive, it's his comments on lynching. No matter how the touchy "what if a black guy said this about white people" people try, there is no parallel. Blacks haven't owned white slaves in the US, and they haven't put on robes and lynched white folks.

Richards was a has been, and now he's relegated to being a dishwasher. No sympathy here.

True, he's a professional. But he's a professional... ENTERTAINER! Probably the number one field of endeavor with the most screwed up people per capita.

Put it all together. Racist outbursts...55 hour marriages...murder...beatings...hardcore beliefs over second-hand smoke and assured global warming calamity. They're a mess!:rolleyes:

:lol: :D

[rjamortega]

In the grand scheme of things, no big deal to me.

Blacks often call each other n****r. Why can a white guy not do it?

I'll tell you what cracks me up...thoughtful, intelligent people can be having the most serious discussion or debate on racial matters, but when it appropriately comes up, no one can utter the word. Everyone is relegated to saying, "...the 'N' word...".

Now if that is not a sign of the power black Americans wield, nothing is. That is impressive power, my friends.;) ...:rolleyes:

[JD3]

I'll tell you what cracks me up...thoughtful, intelligent people can be having the most serious discussion or debate on racial matters, but when it appropriately comes up, no one can utter the word. Everyone is relegated to saying, "...the 'N' word...".

Now if that is not a sign of the power black Americans wield, nothing is. That is impressive power, my friends.;) ...:rolleyes:

It is a word that has been abused and misused. There is a lot of emotion attached to the word. As such, it should be handled with care. It is just being polite.

[rjamortega]

It is a word that has been abused and misused. There is a lot of emotion attached to the word. As such, it should be handled with care. It is just being polite.

I understand that, and I agree. But in the context of using it in an intellectual conversation or observence of actual events there is something childish and silly in using only the term, "...'N' word...".

[JD3]

I understand that, and I agree. But in the context of using it in an intellectual conversation or observence of actual events there is something childish and silly in using only the term, "...'N' word...".

That may be. I would weight need to have the word in the discussion versus the blinding upheavel it might call into play.

[ScummyD]

There is a lot of emotion attached to the word.
So much so that one often times gets looks of horror when using the term "niggardly."

[rjamortega]

Okay, have we all heard enough of Richard's apologize now? Kind of explains it all, doesn't it? This is not a racial issue. The guy is obviously not emotionaly healthy, and not real bright, either.

[JD3]

So much so that one often times gets looks of horror when using the term "niggardly."

Sure. But that isn't really a commonly used word, and it isn't beyond the pale to see folks hear it wrong.

[JD3]

Okay, have we all heard enough of Richard's apologize now? Kind of explains it all, doesn't it? This is not a racial issue. The guy is obviously not emotionaly healthy, and not real bright, either.

Well, maybe. Sure he has problems, but racism may be one of them. For him personally, he may be seeing somthing about himself he is having trouble coming to terms with. That kind of revelation happens to most of us over something some time or another.

[rjamortega]

Well, maybe. Sure he has problems, but racism may be one of them. For him personally, he may be seeing somthing about himself he is having trouble coming to terms with. That kind of revelation happens to most of us over something some time or another.

His revelation is over his mental health, not racism, just as for Gibson the revelation was over alcoholism, not anti-semitism. Unfortunately for Richards his mental state caused him to lose control and become irrational. I believe he was using his words and statements solely to lash out at the two particular hecklers in the most hurtful way he could immediately come up with. It had nothing to do with racism, and all to do with irrational rage all because he had no confidence in his act or himself.

Allow me to be perfectly honest here. I use the word ****** on rare occasion. Of course I use it under my breath or in my mind when I see an act of of a black american that angers me or irritates me. Why do I use it? Because I come from a time and a social group when and where it was common. But now, in my more matured and educated state, the word has taken on a meaning no worse and no less offensive in my mind than all the other derrogatory names and accusations that are common when one is aggitated at something. In otherwords, I use it at those times when I allow myself to quietly fall to my base crude nature. And it is no worse a state than when I am privately aggitated and insulting of other races, ethnicities, individuals and groups.

However, believe it or not, I have an intellectual side as well as empathy for my fellow man. ALL men...or people if you prefer. This is the side of me that I promote as the ideal. That which I strive to maintain in both my public and private moments. It is this side that sees the potential and actual good in everyone regardless of race or color. It is the real me because it is what I truly believe in. All men are created equal.

This is what most of us are like but are afraid to admit, all because of the political monster racial issues have become in today's american culture. Michael Richards has emotional problems he needs to take care of, but some power hungry "spokemen for the black community" will latch on to it and paint it as a racial issue for their own edification.

[rjamortega]

Well look at that...I'm trying to be all honest and adult, and I'm relegated to having to say ... "the 'N' word".

how goofy.

[JD3]

His revelation is over his mental health, not racism, just as for Gibson the revelation was over alcoholism, not anti-semitism.

Can't a person be both? Regardless of the reason, once a person commits a racist act, isn't racism part of the equation?

[steveksux]

I'll tell you what cracks me up...thoughtful, intelligent people can be having the most serious discussion or debate on racial matters, but when it appropriately comes up, no one can utter the word. Everyone is relegated to saying, "...the 'N' word...".It is funny, really, because we know what the "N" word is, saying the "N" word rather than... you know... doesn't fool anybody, its referring to the same word. Not much different than saying grey rather than gray, and one being horribly impolite,the other not.

But I'm all in favor of having an alternate way of discussing something that doesn't result in me getting my a** kicked.

On the bright side, if someone hadn't figured out to say the "N" word instead of... well... you know..., we would never have invented the saying "Dropping the F-bomb" for ... well.... you know..

Randy

[steveksux]

So much so that one often times gets looks of horror when using the term "niggardly."
Not just looks of horror, some politician or govt official got in big hot water for a little while over the use of that word... Took a little time for people to look it up and a consensus reached it was a harmless derivative of ... well.... you know... before he was out of the penalty box. Can't remember who it was...

Randy

[steveksux]

His revelation is over his mental health, not racism, just as for Gibson the revelation was over alcoholism, not anti-semitism. Unfortunately for Richards his mental state caused him to lose control and become irrational. I believe he was using his words and statements solely to lash out at the two particular hecklers in the most hurtful way he could immediately come up with. It had nothing to do with racism, and all to do with irrational rage all because he had no confidence in his act or himself.Very possible. We'll never likely know for sure...

Allow me to be perfectly honest here. I use the word ****** on rare occasion. Of course I use it under my breath or in my mind when I see an act of of a black american that angers me or irritates me. Why do I use it? Because I come from a time and a social group when and where it was common. But now, in my more matured and educated state, the word has taken on a meaning no worse and no less offensive in my mind than all the other derrogatory names and accusations that are common when one is aggitated at something.And the wide gulf between what you mean, and what others assume you mean... :eek: My pet theory is that we'll know racism is history when use of the "N" word doesn't necessarily disappear, but when it is seen by all as merely a random curse word, nothing worse than calling someone any number of names, butthead, a**hole, dumba**, even if it remains exclusively applied to blacks. It becomes generically derogatory, even if specifically applied. Actually I should say at that point, racism has been history for long enough that the scars of racism have also healed, the emotional sting of that word is relegated to the previous generation.


However, believe it or not, I have an intellectual side as well as empathy for my fellow man. ALL men...or people if you prefer. This is the side of me that I promote as the ideal. That which I strive to maintain in both my public and private moments. It is this side that sees the potential and actual good in everyone regardless of race or color. It is the real me because it is what I truly believe in. All men are created equal..:beer: The "me" we all strive to be.

Randy

[brainpan]

His revelation is over his mental health, not racism, just as for Gibson the revelation was over alcoholism, not anti-semitism.Yes to the first, no to the second. I think Gibson is the real deal when it comes to his being a racist *******. This has been discussed before. I have never launched into a racist tirade because I was drunk. Never. I don't believe alcohol could ever make a non-racist suddenly act like one. Don't forget all the circumstantial evidence that made people wonder if Gibson was anti-Semitic before he went on his anti-Jew rant.

It's more gut reaction than anything else, but I think Richards is damaged somehow, and I feel for him. Come on, Richards is Jewish, his friends are Jewish, and he worked for about a decade on a sitcom that is kinda' sorta' about the Jewish American perspective on things. I just find it incredible that he might hate his own Jewishness, I don't believe it.

[rjamortega]

Can't a person be both? Regardless of the reason, once a person commits a racist act, isn't racism part of the equation?

Here's why I think not...the outbursts these two gentlemen showed us came only once they left their rational minds. While rational they do nothing to push others back, and like myself I am sure they harbor no ill will towards others simply because of heritage. Yes, men like these two and myself are prejudiced, but we are not racist in our rational state. As well, their public outbursts were not racist acts. They are simply irrational outbursts. They would be committing racist acts were they to actualy physicaly lash out towards their target, or were they to promote policy or actions that are a detrament to the target person or group.

We cannot continue calling clumsy, ophish, irrational speach racism. What is important is how we live and how we think and act in our rational minds.

There are fine distinctions and definitions between prejudice, bigotry and racism.

[JD3]

Here's why I think not...the outbursts these two gentlemen showed us came only once they left their rational minds. While rational they do nothing to push others back, and like myself I am sure they harbor no ill will towards others simply because of heritage. Yes, men like these two and myself are prejudiced, but we are not racist in our rational state. As well, their public outbursts were not racist acts. They are simply irrational outbursts. They would be committing racist acts were they to actualy physicaly lash out towards their target, or were they to promote policy or actions that are a detrament to the target person or group.

We cannot continue calling clumsy, ophish, irrational speach racism. What is important is how we live and how we think and act in our rational minds.

There are fine distinctions and definitions between prejudice, bigotry and racism.

I think where people go when they are angery tells us a lot about them. The rational mind knows what isn't acceptable, so they hide it. Once you lose that check, that ability to self sensor, we then get a glimpse of the private mind.

This wasn't clumsy, it was angery. And in his anger he didn't go to stupid, or rude, or *******, or any number of obsenities that he could have went to. He went straight to the word most associated with race. I don't think we can completely ignore that.

[brainpan]

This wasn't clumsy, it was angery. And in his anger he didn't go to stupid, or rude, or *******, or any number of obsenities that he could have went to. He went straight to the word most associated with race. I don't think we can completely ignore that.You're right. But he also attacked Jews, and knowing his background, it's hard to believe he is anti-Semtic as well (he could be, but it seems very unlikely).

I think Mel Gibson's tirade identifies him as a raicst, that one is a slam dunk for me. Richards, on the other hand, he's more tricky. I can't get a handle on him.

[JD3]

You're right. But he also attacked Jews, and knowing his background, it's hard to believe he is anti-Semtic as well (he could be, but it seems very unlikely).

I think Mel Gibson's tirade identifies him as a raicst, that one is a slam dunk for me. Richards, on the other hand, he's more tricky. I can't get a handle on him.

I'll review the tape again, but he could be anti-semtic as well. It isn't unheard of.

[rjamortega]

I think where people go when they are angery tells us a lot about them. The rational mind knows what isn't acceptable, so they hide it. Once you lose that check, that ability to self sensor, we then get a glimpse of the private mind.

This wasn't clumsy, it was angery. And in his anger he didn't go to stupid, or rude, or *******, or any number of obsenities that he could have went to. He went straight to the word most associated with race. I don't think we can completely ignore that.

...hmm...okay, I'll think about that. However, I still choose to draw a distinction between racists and anti-semites who do real damage to people, and those who merely harbor old prejudices in their depths but otherwise behave in everyday life with the decency they realize is required and deserved.

I don't know...maybe one or both of these men don't fit the latter mold.

[JD3]

...hmm...okay, I'll think about that. However, I still choose to draw a distinction between racists and anti-semites who do real damage to people, and those who merely harbor old prejudices in their depths but otherwise behave in everyday life with the decency they realize is required and deserved.

I don't know...maybe one or both of these men don't fit the latter mold.

I am not sure what distinction you are looking for or think I am not drawing. I don't care for either. :confused:

[rjamortega]

I am not sure what distinction you are looking for or think I am not drawing. I don't care for either. :confused:

That shows how different we are and how differently we look at life. I assume you are saying you find them both equaly dispicable? I don't. I find the latter to be real, common and widely varied in its attitudes. I also find it to be a part of the continuing evolution of the improvement of man.

[JD3]

That shows how different we are and how differently we look at life. I assume you are saying you find them both equaly dispicable? I don't. I find the latter to be real, common and widely varied in its attitudes. I also find it to be a part of the continuing evolution of the improvement of man.

I find both real and common and widely varied. And while I see some improvement in culture and laws and such, man seems to have many of the same flaws, just better hid.

[rjamortega]

I find both real and common and widely varied. And while I see some improvement in culture and laws and such, man seems to have many of the same flaws, just better hid.

Okay, but I say these flaws are better hid for the greater good by an ever increasing majority that does it with the best of intentions out of a sense of what is the decent thing to do.

Now how do Richards and Gibson fit in this? No worse than Jackson and his "Hymietown" comment and the slew of other derogatory comments that came from black senators and "leaders" in the past. They are all still considered mainstream men and women of decency, so why not these two latest cases?

[JD3]

Okay, but I say these flaws are better hid for the greater good by an ever increasing majority that does it with the best of intentions out of a sense of what is the decent thing to do.

Now how do Richards and Gibson fit in this? No worse than Jackson and his "Hymietown" comment and the slew of other derogatory comments that came from black senators and "leaders" in the past. They are all still considered mainstream men and women of decency, so why not these two latest cases?

Sadly, they are taken more seriously. I don't excuse any of them, or even say punish them. Just call it what it is. Nothing more.

[rjamortega]

Sadly, they are taken more seriously. I don't excuse any of them, or even say punish them. Just call it what it is. Nothing more.

That is fair. But then Richards and Gibson should suffer no further condemnation that may hinder their ability to continue to work.
(I say tahat specifically because I've heard so many people say Richards should never work again. Let's just leave it to the box office)

[JD3]

That is fair. But then Richards and Gibson should suffer no further condemnation that may hinder their ability to continue to work.
(I say tahat specifically because I've heard so many people say Richards should never work again. Let's just leave it to the box office)

Should and will are two different things. I wouldn't deny him employment, and if he were a bigger star, playing to the right audience, it woould probably be something he could easily overcome. But I suspect Gibson will do better than Richards.