Pain Field Generator-USAF ADS Weapon Certified for Use in Iraq

[GI Joe]

The Air Force's non-lethal Active Denial System is ready to rock

The United States Air Force has certified a new weapon that will be used on the ground against insurgents in Iraq. The $40 million USD Active Denial System (ADS) took ten years to develop and is a non-lethal weapon that shoots millimeter waves at offending parties.

The beams fired by the ADS feature 3mm wavelengths as opposed to a 12cm wavelength used in an average household microwave oven. As a result of the shorter wavelengths, the weapon does not represent a radiation risk to victims and will not impose long-lasting damage in most cases.

Human volunteers (active, reserve and retired military personnel) subjected to the beam felt immediate and immense pain from the ADS weapon. The beam causes a person to feel that he or she is on fire and triggers a "flight" response. A result, Air Force officials say that the weapon has what is called the "Goodbye effect" meaning that subjects turn tail and run. "If hit by the beam, you will move out of it -- reflexively and quickly. You for sure will not be eager to experience it again," reported one test subject.

Tests on the volunteers revealed that most subjects reached their threshold for pain within 3 seconds while no one could hold out for more than 5 seconds at a time. After roughly 10,000 test exposures, there were only six reported cases of test subjects receiving blisters from exposure to the beam. One test subject did, however, receive second-degree burns in controlled laboratory testing.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5239

[GI Joe]

he crowd is getting ugly. Soldiers roll up in a Hummer. Suddenly, the whole right half of your body is screaming in agony. You feel like you've been dipped in molten lava. You almost faint from shock and pain, but instead you stumble backwards -- and then start running. To your surprise, everyone else is running too. In a few seconds, the street is completely empty.

You've just been hit with a new nonlethal weapon that has been certified for use in Iraq -- even though critics argue there may be unforeseen effects.

According to documents obtained for Wired News under federal sunshine laws, the Air Force's Active Denial System, or ADS, has been certified safe after lengthy tests by military scientists in the lab and in war games.

The ADS shoots a beam of millimeters waves, which are longer in wavelength than x-rays but shorter than microwaves -- 94 GHz (= 3 mm wavelength) compared to 2.45 GHz (= 12 cm wavelength) in a standard microwave oven.

The longer waves are thought to limit the effects of the radiation. If used properly, ADS will produce no lasting adverse affects, the military argues.



snip
The beam produces what experimenters call the "Goodbye effect," or "prompt and highly motivated escape behavior." In human tests, most subjects reached their pain threshold within 3 seconds, and none of the subjects could endure more than 5 seconds.

"It will repel you," one test subject said. "If hit by the beam, you will move out of it -- reflexively and quickly. You for sure will not be eager to experience it again."

But while subjects may feel like they have sustained serious burns, the documents claim effects are not long-lasting. At most, "some volunteers who tolerate the heat may experience prolonged redness or even small blisters," the Air Force experiments concluded.


http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72134-0.html?tw=wn_politics_1

[steveksux]

Great if it works. I'm suspicious of claims that something that causes such severe pain is not doing some damage of some kind though. Generally speaking, nerves only signal pain when there's something being damaged.

Like to see some independent tests performed to verify how "harmless" it is. Most radiation drops off by the square of the distance, so what's painful at 20 yards could be much more damaging close up. Half the distance means you're exposed to 4 times the power.

Randy

[muffins]

This is an indiscriminate weapon affecting a wide area, and though isn't 'lethal', could cause problems. You could imagine a situation where a couple of lone insurgents are in a small village and popping off shots at a group of soldiers half a kilometre away in the desert. They bring up their ADS system and bathe the area for an hour while troops flank the village. When they enter the village they find that hundreds of civilians are dead, killed by the microwaves burning their internal organs, because they couldn't escape from the effects of the beam.

If you were sitting at home minding your own business and were suddenly engulfed in pain, would you necessarily know that the pain had an exterior cause that you would have to back away from or would you assume that you were ill with something?

[Tired Panda]

Well it was developed across town from me... guess who took an extra 325 dollars a month to "help test" these things? THEY HURT, but I can assure you I have no permanent damage.

[Tired Panda]

Well there are a few things, I dont think the ROEs for the machine have been published yet, however there is a time limit, and your body cools down quite rapidly after being hit with the beam.

[mataj]

. . . and will not impose long-lasting damage in most cases.How reassuring :rolleyes:

[faithfulservant]

This is an indiscriminate weapon affecting a wide area, and though isn't 'lethal', could cause problems. You could imagine a situation where a couple of lone insurgents are in a small village and popping off shots at a group of soldiers half a kilometre away in the desert. They bring up their ADS system and bathe the area for an hour while troops flank the village. When they enter the village they find that hundreds of civilians are dead, killed by the microwaves burning their internal organs, because they couldn't escape from the effects of the beam.

If you were sitting at home minding your own business and were suddenly engulfed in pain, would you necessarily know that the pain had an exterior cause that you would have to back away from or would you assume that you were ill with something?Or possibly it's used in a controlled and rsponsible manner that results in the deufusing of situations that woul dhave otherwise cost 100's people thier lives and millions of dollars in private property damage. Leave it to a leftist to go out of thier way to create a negative situation out of thin air. Nothing you said even remotely reflects reality or any level of awareness of how this tool works.

[faithfulservant]

Well it was developed across town from me... guess who took an extra 325 dollars a month to "help test" these things? THEY HURT, but I can assure you I have no permanent damage.
Panda, is this a long range weapon? Does it penetrate walls? Do you know how well it can be focused or spread?

[GI Joe]

This is an indiscriminate weapon affecting a wide area, and though isn't 'lethal', could cause problems. You could imagine a situation where a couple of lone insurgents are in a small village and popping off shots at a group of soldiers half a kilometre away in the desert. They bring up their ADS system and bathe the area for an hour while troops flank the village. When they enter the village they find that hundreds of civilians are dead, killed by the microwaves burning their internal organs, because they couldn't escape from the effects of the beam.

If you were sitting at home minding your own business and were suddenly engulfed in pain, would you necessarily know that the pain had an exterior cause that you would have to back away from or would you assume that you were ill with something?


How about as a torture method, you forgot that.:rolleyes:




I want one of these bad mo fo's for my weapon collection

[serenity]

Quote:
Originally Posted by muffins
This is an indiscriminate weapon affecting a wide area, and though isn't 'lethal', could cause problems. You could imagine a situation where a couple of lone insurgents are in a small village and popping off shots at a group of soldiers half a kilometre away in the desert. They bring up their ADS system and bathe the area for an hour while troops flank the village. When they enter the village they find that hundreds of civilians are dead, killed by the microwaves burning their internal organs, because they couldn't escape from the effects of the beam.

If you were sitting at home minding your own business and were suddenly engulfed in pain, would you necessarily know that the pain had an exterior cause that you would have to back away from or would you assume that you were ill with something?


posted by faithfulservant
Or possibly it's used in a controlled and rsponsible manner that results in the deufusing of situations that woul dhave otherwise cost 100's people thier lives and millions of dollars in private property damage. Leave it to a leftist to go out of thier way to create a negative situation out of thin air. Nothing you said even remotely reflects reality or any level of awareness of how this tool works.

That's an odd rejoinder to muffins' post...since you offer not one single rebuttal, nor even attempt to do so, of her points here.

How does prolonged exposure affect people...in which subjects can't (or don't know to) escape, as muffins said? No one withstood it for very long, and there were some very mild problems. What if you do withatnd it for a long time, in precisely the scenario muffins describes?

Obviously, it needs to be studied further (that's what we might call a "conservative" view, no?); this very idea seems to offend you. For some reason.

Oh, yeah...because some "leftist" said it. QED.

[faithfulservant]

That's an odd rejoinder to muffins' post...since you offer not one single rebuttal, nor even attempt to do so, of her points here.

How does prolonged exposure affect people...in which subjects can't (or don't know to) escape, as muffins said? No one withstood it for very long, and there were some very mild problems. What if you do withatnd it for a long time, in precisely the scenario muffins describes?

Obviously, it needs to be studied further (that's what we might call a "conservative" view, no?); this very idea seems to offend you. For some reason.

Oh, yeah...because some "leftist" said it. QED.My point is that she intentionally tried to make this sound as bad as possible with NOTHING to back up her mythical scenario. She created this situation with NO knowledge of how the weapon works and went out of her way to try paint as bad a picture as possible. Leftists have this innate mistrust of the military and that's all her post was about. She didn't even consider the HUGE benefits to having a effective non-lethal weapon to use in highly volatile situations and instead went way out of her way to create her little fiction.

You stated yourself that you think that this needs more research and yet you support her in making a statement that has NO research behind it whatsoever, just anti-military posturing. I would think that any long term effects of this weapon would be substantially less than the long term effects of a hail of gunfire (a little thing we like to call "death"), so why oppose it's use by trying to create a fictional scenario to paint this weapon as badly as possible?

[towski]

He. Muffins is a feller.

[serenity]

He. Muffins is a feller.

My mistake; I always get labelled as a chick too (doesn't offend me, but it happens to be incorrect). Sorry muffins.

[brainpan]

He. Muffins is a feller.Uh. Hmmm. :confused:

I always took "muffins" as sort of a promiscuous come-on, which I thought was weird coming from a religious Muslim lady.

I would've assumed most people know what a "muff diver" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=muff+diver) is, but maybe the slang term isn't as common as I thought.

[towski]

Uh. Hmmm. :confused:

I always took "muffins" as sort of a promiscuous come-on, which I thought was weird coming from a religious Muslim lady.

I would've assumed most people know what a "muff diver" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=muff+diver) is, but maybe the slang term isn't as common as I thought.

Here's his blog, as listed in his profile. :shrug:

http://themuffinarium.blogspot.com/

[brainpan]

I don't browse profiles, unless it belongs to a person who I find particularly interesting. I just saw "muffins" and drew a natural conclusion.

[faithfulservant]

He. Muffins is a feller.Well he types like a girl...;)

[towski]

Well he types like a girl...;)

Probably better not to say what you type like. ;)

[faithfulservant]

Probably better not to say what you type like. ;)Whatrs wrong twtith the weay itype?

[Tired Panda]

Panda, is this a long range weapon? Does it penetrate walls? Do you know how well it can be focused or spread?

It's a relatively short range weapon, I'm not sure if I can give out an exact range, but it's millimeter wave, the same kind of technology SWAT teams use to look through walls. So yes it can be felt through walls, however, if I recall the formula correctly for every inch of material that is of the same density of water it is degraded by a sizable factor. Not sure about all the math, I just got shot with the stupid thing. :P

There was a couple of different tests they were doing, one basically looks like a phased array radar. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Par_installation.jpg

Basically what happens is the pulse travels back and forth along the panels and does so relatively quickly giving it a large FOV. But it is possible to "focus" the beam, but it won't be any stronger.

[Mirror Lake 444]

So how does it fare agains an RPG or a sniper? :rolleyes:

I know karate. I know gun. :rolleyes:

[brainpan]

So how does it fare agains an RPG or a sniper? :rolleyes:Probably how attack helicopters do against massed infantry. Maybe the trick is in knowing how to combine a diversity of weapons on the battlefield.

[Alvin T. Grey]

NO Joe! You can't have one for christmas.

[faithfulservant]

Probably how attack helicopters do against massed infantry. Maybe the trick is in knowing how to combine a diversity of weapons on the battlefield.It's unlikely that this will be a traditional battlefield weapon. It's a pretty short range weapon which makes it tough to use on the battlefield. My guess is that it will end up being a riot control tool, used in primarily urban areas where collateral damage and loss of non-combatant lives is too risky to attempt to use conventional weapons.

[steveksux]

My mistake; I always get labelled as a chick too (doesn't offend me, but it happens to be incorrect). Sorry muffins.

Not that there's anything wrong with chicks...

That's nothing. With a name like SteveKsux you wouldn't believe what I get labelled as....

Randy

[Seki]

Letsee.

As a protestor, this scares me, as theres a lot of room for abuse. As a bleeding heart, Id rather see this used than see people gunned down in the streets, as overzealous police have a tendency to do at rallies.

[Mirror Lake 444]

I still say I wouldn't want to be operating this thing if there is a potential sniper or RPG in the vicinity. It would put me out of commission in a hurry. Sounds to me like I'd have to be out in the open while the sniper could be hidden on a roof top or someone in the crowd has a gun. That's my point.

[Tired Panda]

the idea is that you dont roll in on that thing unless it's on a tank or APC and you have the operating area surrounded.

[Zephyr]

I want one, or at least the chance to get shot by one.

How might it fare in say...more adult situations? Does it have a low setting?

[Draciaus]

but it's millimeter wave, the same kind of technology SWAT teams use to look through walls.

What does millimeter wave mean? Is it distance between each wave? I have never heard of SWAT (or anyone else for that matter) being able to look through walls, so I am naturally curious, can anyone expand on this?

One of the first things that I thought of when reading about this was the potential is has to replace the stun-guns that cops carry. Stun guns are fairly ineffective, as there are so many ways that they can be negated, and it's a shame when a cop has to resort to his primary fire arm, but what if every cop carried a "ray gun" in essence that fired the ADS in a narrow beam and neutralized their targets? This could seriously cut down on the amount of unnecessary deaths by cops in America.