As woman lay dying, 911 operators refused to help, tapes show

[JD3]

Turns out she was at the hospital, but the hospital refused to help. On the news tonight they said there is tape of the janators cleaning up her vomit around her, but no one helping her at all. Incredible.

A woman who lay bleeding on the emergency room floor at a troubled hospital died after 911 dispatchers refused to contact paramedics or an ambulance to take her to another facility, newly released tapes of the emergency calls show.

Edith Isabel Rodriguez, 43, died of a perforated bowel May 9 at Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital. The Los Angeles County coroner's office ruled her death accidental.

Relatives said Rodriguez was bleeding from the mouth and writhing in pain for 45 minutes while in a waiting area in the emergency room. Specialists have said she could have survived had she been treated early enough.

County and state authorities are now investigating Rodriguez's death. Relatives reported she died as police were wheeling her out of the hospital after the officers they had asked to help Rodriguez arrested her instead on a parole violation. Duane Allen, Sheriff's Department spokesman, said yesterday that the investigation is ongoing.

In the recordings of two 911 calls that day, first obtained by the Los Angeles Times under a California Public Records Act request, callers pleaded for help for Rodriguez but were referred to hospital staff instead.

"I'm in the emergency room. My wife is dying, and the nurses don't want to help her out," Rodriguez's boyfriend, Jose Prado, is heard saying in Spanish through an interpreter on the tapes.

"What's wrong with her?" a female dispatcher asked.

"She's vomiting blood," Prado said.

"OK, and why aren't they helping her?" the dispatcher asked.

"They're watching her there, and they're not doing anything. They're just watching her," Prado said.

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/134491-Los+Angeles%3A+As+woman+lay+dying%2C+911+operators +refused+to+help%2C+tapes+show

[bowerbird]

You can blame this on several things

1) your emergency rooms are crowded to overflowing and are at crisis point
2) too many people use the "if you won't see me straight away for my broken fingernail I will walk out the door, go five steps and call an ambulance and one I am on that ambulance trolley you will HAVE to see me.

If you want an eye opener read any thread written by emergency nurses. They are the front line troops in what seems to be an increasing crisis.

[JD3]

You can blame this on several things

1) your emergency rooms are crowded to overflowing and are at crisis point
2) too many people use the "if you won't see me straight away for my broken fingernail I will walk out the door, go five steps and call an ambulance and one I am on that ambulance trolley you will HAVE to see me.

If you want an eye opener read any thread written by emergency nurses. They are the front line troops in what seems to be an increasing crisis.

I can't find the link to tonight news show, but what they said tonight was that they were refusing to see her because she didn't have insurence. It's a private hospital I gather. But such would still be against the law. Staff across the board have been fired, but I understand this hospital has a history of this type of behavior. As soon as I can find the current link, I'll post it.

[bowerbird]

Joe I have just read so many posts from nurses in ER who say that they are trying to cope with too many emergencies at once. That there are three gunshot wounds a couple of traumas and several heart attacks all overwhelming the one Emergency department at the one time and while the staff are busy with that there are little Drama Queens demanding that they be seen right away because they have a "migraine" that will only settle with (pick your own opiate) and they do this while munching on a packet of crisps.

[JD3]

Joe I have just read so many posts from nurses in ER who say that they are trying to cope with too many emergencies at once. That there are three gunshot wounds a couple of traumas and several heart attacks all overwhelming the one Emergency department at the one time and while the staff are busy with that there are little Drama Queens demanding that they be seen right away because they have a "migraine" that will only settle with (pick your own opiate) and they do this while munching on a packet of crisps.

I am quite sure. I have some experieince in that area as well. And my wife has 25 years as an ER nurse (that's where we met :angel: ). But I think something different is going on here.

[DiAnna]

No, it wasn't an insurance issue. This hospital is federally-funded. Turns out that was her third trip to the same ER in three days. All three times she was glanced at, given pain medication and sent home without doing a proper workup or being given a proper diagnosis. They knew she was a drug addict, and presumed (wrongly) that she was simply trying to get more pain meds.

Nonetheless, you'd have thought the words "vomiting blood" would get their attention; however, they just didn't believe her. The 911 operators that were contacted by the family and bystanders acted horridly. But when the hospital staff called the police because she was causing a disruption, the police charitably came out and arrested her for a patrol violation.

She died while they were wheeling her to the squad car.

This is disgusting on too many levels to count. That hospital has been warned before of substandard care. This time heads have rolled, but it's too little, too late.

On the bright side, the money from the wrongful death lawsuit will make the surviving family members' life slightly easier, and they deserve every penny. This was a travesty, and every member of the medical staff that saw her writhing on the floor should permanently lose their license to practice. Period.

[JD3]

No, it wasn't an insurance issue. This hospital is federally-funded. Turns out that was her third trip to the same ER in three days. All three times she was glanced at, given pain medication and sent home without doing a proper workup or being given a proper diagnosis. They knew she was a drug addict, and presumed (wrongly) that she was simply trying to get more pain meds.

Nonetheless, you'd have thought the words "vomiting blood" would get their attention; however, they just didn't believe her. The 911 operators that were contacted by the family and bystanders acted horridly. But when the hospital staff called the police because she was causing a disruption, the police charitably came out and arrested her for a patrol violation.

She died while they were wheeling her to the squad car.

This is disgusting on too many levels to count. That hospital has been warned before of substandard care. This time heads have rolled, but it's too little, too late.

On the bright side, the money from the wrongful death lawsuit will make the surviving family members' life slightly easier, and they deserve every penny. This was a travesty, and every member of the medical staff that saw her writhing on the floor should permanently lose their license to practice. Period.


Thanks for the information. I'll keep trying to find the news story I heard.

[The_Penguin]

A little background on the competence of this hospital is necessary.

-snip-

MLK-Harbor is operated by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (DHS) and has 48 beds. In recent years, widely publicized problems related to incompetence and mismanagement caused the hospital to undergo a radical overhaul: bringing the number of beds down to 42 from 233.[1] Since 2004, 260 hospital staffers, including 41 doctors, had been fired or had resigned as a result of disciplinary proceedings. It currently has 1,400 employees. To alleviate the impact on the community of the large loss of capacity, The Los Angeles County Medical Alert Center (MAC) contracts ambulances take approximately 250 patients per month to other local hospitals. [1]

-snip-

On August 22, 2003, the Los Angeles Times reported that two women connected to cardiac monitors died after their deteriorating vital signs went undetected. In December 2003, DHS closed the cardiac monitoring ward of King/Drew after a third patient died under questionable circumstances. A consulting group was hired to help fix issues with the nursing staff, with DHS spending nearly $1 million.

In a January 13, 2004 report, the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) determined that King/Drew was out of compliance with minimum requirements for receiving federal funding, citing the work of government inspectors who identified five patients who died at King/Drew after what were determined to have been grave errors by staff members. By March, CMS declared King/Drew patients were in "immediate jeopardy" of harm or death because of medication errors at the hospital, citing numerous mistakes and threatening to pull federal government funding from the public hospital. An example in this report cited a meningitis patient receiving a potent anti-cancer drug for four days. In June CMS again stated that patients were in jeopardy, citing the use of Taser stun guns to subdue psychiatric patients. Yet again, it threatened to pull federal funding but backed away; federal funding makes up over half of King/Drew's $400 million operating budget.

-snip-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._Hospital

bower, what you said was incorrect.

This problem is not expandable in order to cover the entire country as one big screw up. It's just one hospital that's at issue in this case.

[mtm1963]

people need to lose their jobs, including the person who took the 911 call.

this neglect is outrageous.

mtm1963

[DiAnna]

Thanks for the information. I'll keep trying to find the news story I heard.


There's considerably more info here, in this Los Angeles Times article (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-king20may20,0,1577522,full.story)

[steveksux]

people need to lose their jobs, including the person who took the 911 call.

this neglect is outrageous.

mtm1963Curious what you think the 911 operator is guilty of. You have a known drug addict already at a hospital. Do you think it is more likely the hospital or the drug addict with a parole violation is the root of the problem in any given situation? How was the 911 operator supposed to tell this is the one exception to that rule over the phone? You think 911 operators are capable of diagnosing patients over the phone, to the point that they should feel compelled to overrule hospital staff and direct triage of patients over the phone?

Randy

[mtm1963]

Curious what you think the 911 operator is guilty of. You have a known drug addict already at a hospital. Do you think it is more likely the hospital or the drug addict with a parole violation is the root of the problem in any given situation? How was the 911 operator supposed to tell this is the one exception to that rule over the phone? You think 911 operators are capable of diagnosing patients over the phone, to the point that they should feel compelled to overrule hospital staff and direct triage of patients over the phone?

Randy


when the caller says "She's vomiting blood", that's an indication someone needs help and coupled with the fact the 911 operator is made aware the hospital staff is doing nothing for this women.

mtm1963

[steveksux]

when the caller says "She's vomiting blood", that's an indication someone needs help and coupled with the fact the 911 operator is made aware the hospital staff is doing nothing for this women.

mtm1963And again, what makes you think a 911 operator should feel they are qualified to override the decisions of the doctors at the hospital, if the hospital staff seems to not be worried about it? What do you expect the 911 operator to do in this case? I don't disagree its a tragedy, but the blame is on the hospital staff. 911 operators are not qualified to override medical decisions made by hospitals.

Randy

[JD3]

And again, what makes you think a 911 operator should feel they are qualified to override the decisions of the doctors at the hospital, if the hospital staff seems to not be worried about it? What do you expect the 911 operator to do in this case? I don't disagree its a tragedy, but the blame is on the hospital staff. 911 operators are not qualified to override medical decisions made by hospitals.

Randy

I remember once I was shock when we dispatched to the hospital when I worked the ambulance as a young man. It was an emeergency call, and they had an emergency.

Mostly, I agree that dispatch would think things should be handled there, but there was enough to suggest they check with the hospital and make sure.

There's considerably more info here, in this Los Angeles Times article

Thanks. Most informative article I've read yet.

[steveksux]

Mostly, I agree that dispatch would think things should be handled there, but there was enough to suggest they check with the hospital and make sure..They did. Dispatch sent cops, who were also not qualified to second guess the doctors at the hospital regarding medical matters, and took the doctors word against the drug addicts word. And found she had warrants apparently. That's their job, their responsibility. Not to provide, nor critique medical advice of hospital emergency room staff.

And exactly what could the cops have done differently? From the link in the original article... Relatives reported she died as police were wheeling her out of the hospital after the officers they had asked to help Rodriguez arrested her instead on a parole violation. The outcome would have been the same had they been wheeling her out to take her to another hospital instead of under arrest for parole violations. It was too late by the time the cops got involved anyway.

Randy

[JD3]

They did. Dispatch sent cops, who were also not qualified to second guess the doctors at the hospital regarding medical matters, and took the doctors word against the drug addicts word. And found she had warrants apparently. That's their job, their responsibility. Not to provide, nor critique medical advice of hospital emergency room staff.

And exactly what could the cops have done differently? From the link in the original article... The outcome would have been the same had they been wheeling her out to take her to another hospital instead of under arrest for parole violations. It was too late by the time the cops got involved anyway.

Randy

Quite true. The fault lies with the hospital. But dispatches do send ambulances to hospitals from time to time, which is what I was saying.

[steveksux]

Quite true. The fault lies with the hospital. But dispatches do send ambulances to hospitals from time to time, which is what I was saying.Not sure I'm following exactly what you're saying, due to the unique nature of this incident.

Obviously, dispatchers do send ambulances to hospitals, to transport people in need of medical attention who are not already at hospitals. I can't imagine dispatchers sending an ambulance to transfer someone already at a hospital for the purpose of taking them to another hospital. Is that what you're referring to?

If the current hospital can't handle a case, whether due to capacity, training, equipment, expertise, whatever... that's a call the hospital staff makes. Its not uncommon to stabilize patients and send them to a hospital that specializes in their problem, such as sever burn patients. And I suppose its possible that in some cases the 911 dispatcher could send the ambulance in that case. But its not a decision the dispatcher makes, the hospital decides the patient needs to be transferred and requires the ambulance. So even in that case, if an ambulance isnt requested, you can't blame the 911 dispatcher for not taking it upon themselves to order an ambulance to transport a patient.

Randy

[Soren]

This hospital is already notorious, so I wasn't surprised to read this story in the L.A. Times. Even a cat with nine lives can be killed one time too many.

[mtm1963]

And again, what makes you think a 911 operator should feel they are qualified to override the decisions of the doctors at the hospital, if the hospital staff seems to not be worried about it? What do you expect the 911 operator to do in this case? I don't disagree its a tragedy, but the blame is on the hospital staff. 911 operators are not qualified to override medical decisions made by hospitals.

Randy

decisions by the staff were to let her lie on the floor and that neglect contirbuted to her death or even caused it!

the staff MADE NO medical decisions concerning her condition. if they did, she might be alive today.

mtm1963

[steveksux]

decisions by the staff were to let her lie on the floor and that neglect contirbuted to her death or even caused it!

the staff MADE NO medical decisions concerning her condition. if they did, she might be alive today.

mtm1963You seem to be missing your own point and changing the subject. You complained about the dispatcher. Everyone agrees the hospital was negligent.people need to lose their jobs, including the person who took the 911 call Just to make sure you understand what is being asked, I emphasized the point I was asking you to clarify a little.

You seemed to think the dispatcher was at fault also, not just the hospital staff. That the dispatcher should have done something about it. So lets hear it. How do you expect the dispatcher, with minimal first aid training, who hasn't even laid eyes on the patient, to think they know better than the doctors at the hospital she's already at? Support your own point, would you? Can you? You seem to be avoiding it. Hint: I'm asking about the 911 operator. Not the hospital staff.

Randy

[mtm1963]

You seem to be missing your own point and changing the subject. You complained about the dispatcher. Everyone agrees the hospital was negligent. Just to make sure you understand what is being asked, I emphasized the point I was asking you to clarify a little.

my point is one of neglect, both by the hospital staff and to a lesser degree the 911 operators who took two calls.

You seemed to think the dispatcher was at fault also, not just the hospital staff. That the dispatcher should have done something about it. So lets hear it. How do you expect the dispatcher, with minimal first aid training, who hasn't even laid eyes on the patient, to think they know better than the doctors at the hospital she's already at? Support your own point, would you? Can you? You seem to be avoiding it. Hint: I'm asking about the 911 operator. Not the hospital staff.

Randy

i'm sorry, for a 911 operator to say there's nothing i can do when they were made aware of the situation, not once but twice. yes that's neglect as i see it. you obviously disagree!

mtm1963

[steveksux]

my point is one of neglect, both by the hospital staff and to a lesser degree the 911 operators who took two calls.



i'm sorry, for a 911 operator to say there's nothing i can do when they were made aware of the situation, not once but twice. yes that's neglect as i see it. you obviously disagree!

mtm1963So lets hear you're solution. What WAS the 911 operator supposed to do? What authority do you think they have that could resolve the situation in a more satisfactory manner? You're so quick to condemn, lets hear what you would have done instead.

Tell the doctors how to do their job? Aren't ambulances required to take you to the closest facility? There's no way the cops have the authority to take a patient out of one hospital to put them in another because they're not satisfied with the quality of care... get real here.

You will notice that the patient died while the police were loading her up for the outstanding warrant arrest. Even if 911 could override the hospitals medical decisions and send an ambulance to take her elsewhere instead of the police, she would have died getting loaded into an ambuance instead of a squad car. It was already too late by the time the cops had been contacted again.

Randy

[mtm1963]

So lets hear you're solution. What WAS the 911 operator supposed to do? What authority do you think they have that could resolve the situation in a more satisfactory manner? You're so quick to condemn, lets hear what you would have done instead.

Tell the doctors how to do their job? Aren't ambulances required to take you to the closest facility? There's no way the cops have the authority to take a patient out of one hospital to put them in another because they're not satisfied with the quality of care... get real here.

You will notice that the patient died while the police were loading her up for the outstanding warrant arrest. Even if 911 could override the hospitals medical decisions and send an ambulance to take her elsewhere instead of the police, she would have died getting loaded into an ambuance instead of a squad car. It was already too late by the time the cops had been contacted again.

Randy

send an ambulance with EMT's to check it out.

as descibed by the 2 indiviuals who called 911, there was a clear need for assistants for this individual.

tell the doctors/staff how to do their job? when they're not doing their job, you do what? in this case they(911 operators) did NOTHING. very supportive of the staff i guess! :rolleyes:

the hospital wasn't making a medical decision, how could they be? the individual died at hands of their neglect. some medical decision.

mtm1963

[JD3]

Not sure I'm following exactly what you're saying, due to the unique nature of this incident.

Obviously, dispatchers do send ambulances to hospitals, to transport people in need of medical attention who are not already at hospitals. I can't imagine dispatchers sending an ambulance to transfer someone already at a hospital for the purpose of taking them to another hospital. Is that what you're referring to?

If the current hospital can't handle a case, whether due to capacity, training, equipment, expertise, whatever... that's a call the hospital staff makes. Its not uncommon to stabilize patients and send them to a hospital that specializes in their problem, such as sever burn patients. And I suppose its possible that in some cases the 911 dispatcher could send the ambulance in that case. But its not a decision the dispatcher makes, the hospital decides the patient needs to be transferred and requires the ambulance. So even in that case, if an ambulance isnt requested, you can't blame the 911 dispatcher for not taking it upon themselves to order an ambulance to transport a patient.

Randy


That's why I told you my story. We, emts, were called to a hospital emergency room to give emergency care. The dispatcher here made a decision. He or she should have at a minimum, investigated.