Repubs & Dems join together to commemorate 9/11 while leftists desecrate the memorial

[GI Joe]

We joined with the College Democrats to mark the anniversary of the attacks of 9/11. The leftists came out in force to disrespect and downplay the significance of the American deaths on that day.

The conservatives and liberals respect and remember those that died on 9/11, the far left degenerates spit on them.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZMgIKZUvFQ

[Crosscheck]

They can say whatever they want about the Iraq war but no way should they be allowed to put a swatiska on the American flag and stand on it.
Were there not any vets there to shove it in that loudmouth's face?

That is a crime to deface the flag in public. If the cops weren't going to do anything then a citizen should have jerked it out from underneath them. I have no doubt I could physically handle all these punks.

[Ethos]

I would like to see an actual prosecution of a flag desecration law. First Amendment considerations would make the contest an interesting one.

As a side note, there is already a lengthy thread on this particular topic in the politics forum.

Ethos

[mataj]

First of all, such things must always be taken with a ton of salt. If someone is making a political statement in a particularily repulsive manner, he's probably an agent provocateur. Like theese guys, for example

http://collateral.blip.tv/file/357302/

So, desecrators could as well be Young Republicans in disguise. It's a trick with a beard, so to speak, as old as politics itself, and still effective.


Second, 9/11 was meant to be desecrated in the 1st place. Busheviks & neocons want it this way. Why else would they stick their stinking political goals to it?

[The_Penguin]

Ahh, well, they're nutjobs.

But I don't think they should be prosecuted for desecrating the flag.

One of the beautiful things about the first amendment is that not only do you get a free exchange of ideas, but you easily find out who the whackos are. Besides the minute that you take away their right to be douchebags, they will gain a shred of legitimacy.

Personally, I'd send this video to all Americans and show just how vile so many leftists are.

[serenity]

They can say whatever they want about the Iraq war but no way should they be allowed to put a swatiska on the American flag and stand on it.
Were there not any vets there to shove it in that loudmouth's face?

That is a crime to deface the flag in public. If the cops weren't going to do anything then a citizen should have jerked it out from underneath them. I have no doubt I could physically handle all these punks.


Yeah, I'm sure you are a manly-manly tough guy and all, but you sure seem to detest people's freedom.

It's attitudes like yours that make me feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people.

Personally, I'd send this video to all Americans and show just how vile so many leftists are.


Ah yes, "so many" is quite perfectly symbolized by this particular act.

You know, you should step out of your rarefied little world, and realize that most "leftists" are normal decent people, not a bunch of "vile" "douchebags" as you so eloquently put it.

[Crosscheck]

It's attitudes like yours that make me feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people.


You may feel like doing it but I think we both know that you don't have the stones to do it.

[serenity]

You may feel like doing it but I think we both know that you don't have the stones to do it.


I don’t really have the desire, to be honest. But yes, certainly I have the “stones.” I’m a recovering scrapper as it is (god knows this is no boast.). And if anyone wished to fight me for something so laughably trivial as burning a flag—that is, if they were so delicate of sensibility, so weak in character as to think violence over something so little were justifiable….Well, let’s just say that first I’d try to avoid the fight, since it’s stupid; but if the person insisted upon my beating them up, I’d eventually feel obliged to help them in this regard.

Believe me, I’m not afraid of this sort of dainty little coward.

[Crosscheck]

I don’t really have the desire, to be honest. But yes, certainly I have the “stones.” I’m a recovering scrapper as it is (god knows this is no boast.). And if anyone wished to fight me for something so laughably trivial as burning a flag—that is, if they were so delicate of sensibility, so weak in character as to think violence over something so little were justifiable….Well, let’s just say that first I’d try to avoid the fight, since it’s stupid; but if the person insisted upon my beating them up, I’d eventually feel obliged to help them in this regard.

Believe me, I’m not afraid of this sort of dainty little coward.

Oh, I'm sorry I thought it was you who posted "It's attitudes like yours that make me feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people. "

[serenity]

Oh, I'm sorry I thought it was you who posted "It's attitudes like yours that make me feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people. "


Yes, but like I say, I wouldn't act on that feeling.

You see, it is the flag-waving zealots, who think that destroying a flag is the height of moral iniquity, who think violence is a reasonable response to a wholly trivial action, an action which has nothing to do with them personally unless they choose to be ridiculous morons.

So sure, absolutely such amusing little wankers make me "feel like" desecrating a flag to get a rise out of them.

but I wouldn't do it.

[The_Penguin]

Ah yes, "so many" is quite perfectly symbolized by this particular act.

You know, you should step out of your rarefied little world, and realize that most "leftists" are normal decent people, not a bunch of "vile" "douchebags" as you so eloquently put it.

You're giving me advice on leaving 'little worlds'?

Mirror mirror on the wall...

[GI Joe]

Yes, but like I say, I wouldn't act on that feeling.

You see, it is the flag-waving zealots, who think that destroying a flag is the height of moral iniquity, who think violence is a reasonable response to a wholly trivial action, an action which has nothing to do with them personally unless they choose to be ridiculous morons.

So sure, absolutely such amusing little wankers make me "feel like" desecrating a flag to get a rise out of them.

but I wouldn't do it.

I dont think someone should be prosecuted for desecrating the flag and violence against them is stupid(unless I am drunk and in a scrapper mood:D :D ;) ).

When I was younger I used to get in fights now and then and I got my *** whooped many times. I never really looked for one but I didnt back down or try to defuse the situation once there was a situation. Now I try to avoid and diffuse any situation, its stupid and pointless 99% of the time and involves alchhol 99% of the time(I also dont heal like I used too:D).

[Crosscheck]

I dont think someone should be prosecuted for desecrating the flag and violence against them is stupid(unless I am drunk and in a scrapper mood:D :D ;) ).

When I was younger I used to get in fights now and then and I got my *** whooped many times. I never really looked for one but I didnt back down or try to defuse the situation once there was a situation. Now I try to avoid and diffuse any situation, its stupid and pointless 99% of the time and involves alchhol 99% of the time(I also dont heal like I used too:D).


Regardless of the law protecting the flag from being desecrated if one chooses to instigate a reaction by placing a swatika or stomping on it in public they shouldn't cry to the police when somebody boots them in the rear.

Of course the two biggest warriors here, Gi Joe and Serenity, shouldn't have any problem handling anybody.

If one is that dumb to stomp on the flag or piss on the Vietnam Memorial Wall then they better be able to handle the consequences without crying to the police for protection. Just as I am certain the two warriors here wouldn't want to wave a KKK flag down through Watts, California although am certain these two scrappers could take on all comers.

[ptac4x4]

I am not a flag waving zealot, but I do respect the flag and this country. I just wonder where it became wrong to say the pledge to the flag at school or other social gatherings? For that matter giving a blessing for setting down to eat.

People say they love the US, yet show so little respect. Is there not better ways to show your frustration?

[towski]

I just wonder where it became wrong to say the pledge to the flag at school or other social gatherings?

Part of a former career of mine (a recent one) involved speaking occasionally at elementary schools. Every assembly opened with the pledge of allegiance, and the texas pledge. :shrug:

[Ethos]

Has anyone noticed that the flag may be burned in protest, but copies of the declaration of independence or the U.S. constitution are not?

Would anyone like to take a guess as to why this is?

Ethos

[towski]

Has anyone noticed that the flag may be burned in protest, but copies of the declaration of independence or the U.S. constitution are not?

Would anyone like to take a guess as to why this is?

Ethos

Must resist urge to think for myself. Must stick to ideologically acceptable talking points......Arrrggghhh!

[burntgorilla]

I have never understood why people respect a flag so much. It means nothing to me. If you see someone on TV burning a flag, does that make you feel angry? It has no effect on me.

[Ethos]

Must resist urge to think for myself. Must stick to ideologically acceptable talking points......Arrrggghhh!

That may be hard. I'm not aware of talking points existing for this particular question. I do have an answer though, so I suppose one could take that answer and fashion it into a set of points if one so desired.

Ethos

[ptac4x4]

Part of a former career of mine (a recent one) involved speaking occasionally at elementary schools. Every assembly opened with the pledge of allegiance, and the texas pledge. :shrug:

Glad to see it done in some states. They don't in some states.

[ptac4x4]

I have never understood why people respect a flag so much. It means nothing to me. If you see someone on TV burning a flag, does that make you feel angry? It has no effect on me.

For me the flag of a country is symbol of that country. To burn it shows disrespect or contempt for what the country stands for. Guess also it may for some of the same reasons some groups get upset when there religious books are not treated with respect.

[GI Joe]

Glad to see it done in some states. They don't in some states.

I started with it every day back in the school days. I had no idea they dont do it in someplaces. It should be mandatory

[towski]

Glad to see it done in some states. They don't in some states.

I don't think that's accurate, frankly.

[burntgorilla]

For me the flag of a country is symbol of that country. To burn it shows disrespect or contempt for what the country stands for. Guess also it may for some of the same reasons some groups get upset when there religious books are not treated with respect.

Yes, I understand that. But do you really care if some fool disrespects your country?

[serenity]

Regardless of the law protecting the flag from being desecrated if one chooses to instigate a reaction by placing a swatika or stomping on it in public they shouldn't cry to the police when somebody boots them in the rear.

Of course the two biggest warriors here, Gi Joe and Serenity, shouldn't have any problem handling anybody.

Hey, man, you’re the one who started the whole macho posturing here…both me and Joe have pointed out quite explicitly that we no longer behave in such a useless fashion, and poke a bit of fun at ourselves. You aren’t so clear on the matter.

The whole point, which must have taken real discipline for you to miss, is that we’re talking about two acts here: one, burning or desecrating a flag, which some people are trivial-minded enough to throw tantrums over; and two, physically assaulting the desecrators.

The physical assault is WORSE than the flag desecration. Not just legally, but morally. Worse, by far.

[Crosscheck]

Hey, man, you’re the one who started the whole macho posturing here…both me and Joe have pointed out quite explicitly that we no longer behave in such a useless fashion, and poke a bit of fun at ourselves. You aren’t so clear on the matter.

The whole point, which must have taken real discipline for you to miss, is that we’re talking about two acts here: one, burning or desecrating a flag, which some people are trivial-minded enough to throw tantrums over; and two, physically assaulting the desecrators.

The physical assault is WORSE than the flag desecration. Not just legally, but morally. Worse, by far.

You are the one who indicates you feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people. You are the one who likes to refer to his history of being a "scrapper".
Yes, I sure don't see any macho posturing in your postings......lol

What I am saying is if one wants to stomp on an American flag to get a rise out of people then they should live with the consequences without depending on the police to protect them. Too many good men have died defending that flag to allow you or any other punks to desecrate it in public.

[Ethos]

Too many good men have died defending that flag to allow you or any other punks to desecrate it in public.

It is not the flag men have died to protect, but the freedoms it represents. One such freedom being the ability to be positively disrespectful to the flag itself. Preventing someone from exercising that right, through intimidation or physical violence, is far more disrespectful toward the sacrifices of our men through history.

Ethos

[Crosscheck]

It is not the flag men have died to protect, but the freedoms it represents. One such freedom being the ability to be positively disrespectful to the flag itself. Preventing someone from exercising that right, through intimidation or physical violence, is far more disrespectful toward the sacrifices of our men through history.

Ethos


Yes, of course . That is why so many states have laws against flag desecration

[GI Joe]

Regardless of the law protecting the flag from being desecrated if one chooses to instigate a reaction by placing a swatika or stomping on it in public they shouldn't cry to the police when somebody boots them in the rear.

Of course the two biggest warriors here, Gi Joe and Serenity, shouldn't have any problem handling anybody.

If one is that dumb to stomp on the flag or piss on the Vietnam Memorial Wall then they better be able to handle the consequences without crying to the police for protection. Just as I am certain the two warriors here wouldn't want to wave a KKK flag down through Watts, California although am certain these two scrappers could take on all comers.


I agree with that, if some degenerate fool desecrates the flag or pisses on the Vietnam Memorial, he better be ready for an *** beating and shouldnt go whining to the cops(Some Cop may whoop his *** too) when it happens. I am just sayin I am too old to be doin that **** anymore. The desecrater would get no sympathy from me and if I was on a jury I would not convict someone who wooped the desecraters ***

[Ethos]

Yes, of course . That is why so many states have laws against flag desecration

Clearly unconstitutional laws, of course.

I should certainly hope the members of our military don't truly believe they are fighting and dying to protect a piece of cloth sold in grocery stores and typically manufactured in China.

Ethos

[Ethos]

I agree with that, if some degenerate fool desecrates the flag or pisses on the Vietnam Memorial, he better be ready for an *** beating and shouldnt go whining to the cops(Some Cop may whoop his *** too) when it happens. I am just sayin I am too old to be doin that **** anymore. The desecrater would get no sympathy from me and if I was on a jury I would not convict someone who wooped the desecraters ***

More respect for law and order. It's amazing how many crimes certain members of this forum would allow to go unpunished.

Ethos

[Crosscheck]

Clearly unconstitutional laws, of course.

I should certainly hope the members of our military don't truly believe they are fighting and dying to protect a piece of cloth sold in grocery stores and typically manufactured in China.

Ethos


Walk up to any US military base with an American flag with a swastika painted on it and find out how much they will fight for that flag.
You can explain to them that the flag is only a piece of cloth.'

Not going to happen is it?

[Ethos]

Walk up to any US military base with an American flag with a swastika painted on it and find out how much they will fight for that flag.
You can explain to them that the flag is only a piece of cloth.'

Not going to happen is it?

Most certainly not, but it doesn't really matter. This is not a logical argument, but an emotional one, and it has no place being legislated into law - especially one that goes against our guaranteed freedom of expression and protest.

Personally I find it disappointing to think people are willing to die for a symbol (the flag) rather than a principle (first amendment).

Ethos

[serenity]

You are the one who indicates you feel like desecrating a flag just to get a rise out of certain people.

Only trying to display the weak-minded, lacking-in-character idiocy of flagaphiles…I also noted explicitly that I wouldn’t bother doing such a thing. I admit it’s fun to see how upset the weak-minded among us can get over nothing, but no, I wouldn’t push their buttons simply for this self-gratifying spectacle.


You are the one who likes to refer to his history of being a "scrapper".
Yes, I sure don't see any macho posturing in your postings......lol

It isn’t, at all. I’m reformed, as I said, and far from proud of my actions as a young man. Any ridiculous moron can choose to fight…say, oh, the type who would physically attack some one for desecrating a flag (I still cannot believe the knuckle-dragging, simpleton, laughably adolescent foolishness of such a response).

You are the one who advocates violence here, and for a thoroughly stupid reason, yet.


What I am saying is if one wants to stomp on an American flag to get a rise out of people then they should live with the consequences without depending on the police to protect them.

Wrong. Stomping a flag is not a personal affront (unless you’re stupid enough to view it that way, making it the offendee’s fault, not the flag-stomper). Physically attacking someone is a crime, an assault. I’ll repeat it again, since you strangely seemed to have missed this basic truism, this inarguable point: the person committing the violence is morally WORSE than the flag desecrator; further, while it’s not at all clear that desecrating a flag IS an immoral act (I don’t think it is), it is perfectly and obviously clear that stomping a human being for this action IS an immoral act.

Too many good men have died defending that flag to allow you or any other punks to desecrate it in public.

Yeah, let’s wipe some pretty, tri-color tears from our eyes while we all hum “Britannia Rule the Wa…”sorry, I mean, “God bless America.” Cripes, man, is this sort of empty sanctimony really the best you can come up with?

Well, I suppose, if someone’s going to get exercised over something as trivial as desecrating a flag—arguably THE least important “debate” occurring on WS at the moment—then of course they’re going to resort to meaningless platitudes to shore up their lost argument.

[Bassman]

Most certainly not, but it doesn't really matter. This is not a logical argument, but an emotional one, and it has no place being legislated into law - especially one that goes against our guaranteed freedom of expression and protest.

Personally I find it disappointing to think people are willing to die for a symbol (the flag) rather than a principle (first amendment).

Ethos
Yeah?? Tell that to the Vets who meet at your local American Legion or AmVets post.

[towski]

Yeah?? Tell that to the Vets who meet at your local American Legion or AmVets post.


You mean like the one's I've met, who say things like "I may disagree with what you say, but I fought to defend your right to say it"? Those kind of vets?

You assume much, little one.

[Ethos]

Yeah?? Tell that to the Vets who meet at your local American Legion or AmVets post.

Which do you believe is more important - the American flag, or the American Constitution?

Ethos

[Crosscheck]

Only trying to display the weak-minded, lacking-in-character idiocy of flagaphiles…I also noted explicitly that I wouldn’t bother doing such a thing. I admit it’s fun to see how upset the weak-minded among us can get over nothing, but no, I wouldn’t push their buttons simply for this self-gratifying spectacle.




It isn’t, at all. I’m reformed, as I said, and far from proud of my actions as a young man. Any ridiculous moron can choose to fight…say, oh, the type who would physically attack some one for desecrating a flag (I still cannot believe the knuckle-dragging, simpleton, laughably adolescent foolishness of such a response).

You are the one who advocates violence here, and for a thoroughly stupid reason, yet.




Wrong. Stomping a flag is not a personal affront (unless you’re stupid enough to view it that way, making it the offendee’s fault, not the flag-stomper). Physically attacking someone is a crime, an assault. I’ll repeat it again, since you strangely seemed to have missed this basic truism, this inarguable point: the person committing the violence is morally WORSE than the flag desecrator; further, while it’s not at all clear that desecrating a flag IS an immoral act (I don’t think it is), it is perfectly and obviously clear that stomping a human being for this action IS an immoral act.



Yeah, let’s wipe some pretty, tri-color tears from our eyes while we all hum “Britannia Rule the Wa…”sorry, I mean, “God bless America.” Cripes, man, is this sort of empty sanctimony really the best you can come up with?

Well, I suppose, if someone’s going to get exercised over something as trivial as desecrating a flag—arguably THE least important “debate” occurring on WS at the moment—then of course they’re going to resort to meaningless platitudes to shore up their lost argument.

As I read over the insults you have shot at me calling me weak-minded, lacking-in-character idiocy of flagaphiles, knuckle-dragging, and simpleton it occurred to me.

You have never been in a real fight have you?
Definitely never served in the military.
I believe GI Joe has fought but really doubtful you have. It is easy to project oneself on the internet. It reminds me of the fakes who claim to be Viet Nam Vets.

[serenity]

You have never been in a real fight have you?
Definitely never served in the military.
I believe GI Joe has fought but really doubtful you have. It is easy to project oneself on the internet. It reminds me of the fakes who claim to be Viet Nam Vets.


No, i've never served in the military. Never claimed to, of course. If that's a big blot to a big, stwong man like yourself, I think I"ll get over it. And sure, unfortunately I've been in a whole mess of fights.

I'm not sure why you issue this challenge, completely unanswerable as you say, because of internet anonymity. But since I've abandoned the practice, and consider it foolish, I can't say your "doubts" are too wounding.

I wasn't boasting about it (as i already made clear); I was really trying to expose your pretences...though I tend to stop short of calling even the most effete little dainties "liar."

The funny thing is, Crosscheck my good man, it's a waste of time to breach the unwritten debate rules here: ie. unless someone's story is totally ridiculous, there's no point in denying someone's claimed, personal truth. What's the point? If I'm honest (which, as you probably suspect but won't admit, I very carefully always am) you just look like a massive tool (of the sort who boasts impotently about wishing violence upon innocuous flag desecraters). And if I"m lying, well, that's unprovable at any rate.



In short, it's a stupid battle that you can't win. That's why, as you may or may not have noted, most of us refrain from doing.

A poster once declared that I was lying about having children (for some reason, known only to him, I suppose.) A more sensitive subject, because intensely personal...but the same overall intent: to prove his own desire to inflict a wound. And the same effect: vacuity, insult for insult's sake.

Just think of it as a suggestion: a little restraint goes a long way.

[Crosscheck]

I thought so.

[serenity]

I thought so.



Ah well. A debate that starts out bad will usually degenerate like this one did. A waste of time. Peace.