Health Benefits of Faith

[Ethos]

The Medical Benefits of Faith

There are sound medical reasons to take these beliefs seriously. An analysis of 42 studies involving 125,286 patients, published in the June 2000 issue of Health Psychology, found that those with some sort of religious involvement live longer -- though no one knows whether longevity is due to their faith or their community ties.

Moreover, two-thirds of the patients in the University of Pennsylvania study said that being asked questions about their beliefs would increase their trust in a doctor, which has also been linked to better medical outcomes in some studies.

"We're not doing our jobs if we ignore these questions," says Daniel Sulmasy, MD, director of the Bioethics Institute at New York Medical College, a Catholic university. "After all, it's not just bodies that become sick. Any illness raises issues of spiritual or religious meaning and values."

The point of a spiritual history is not to quiz patients on their formal religious affiliation, says Puchalski, who is medical director at the National Institute of Healthcare Research, a group promoting the integration of spirituality and health care. "We're really just trying to understand what's important to a patient and how those beliefs and values might affect how the patient copes with illness."


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50846



o In a 1995 report on 232 people who underwent elective open-heart surgery, those who received no strength or comfort from religion were more likely to die within six months of the operation.

o A decade-long study of 2,700 people showed that after accounting for risk factors, only one social attribute--increased church attendance--lowered mortality rates.

o Among women recovering from hip fractures, those with stronger religious beliefs and practices were less depressed and could walk further at discharge.

o In a rigorously controlled study of elderly women, the less religious had mortality levels twice that of the faithful.

o A review of 200 epidemiological studies suggests that religion has positive effects on diseases ranging from cervical cancer to stroke.

Provocative, yes. Proof of a cause--effect relationship between religion and health? No. The problem, says Larson, is that psychiatry "has done a pretty badjob of researching the topic." For one thing, studies have ignored crucial factors like the strength of a patient's beliefs. In recent years, however, he and his peers have found meaningful ways to measure faith, including attendance at worship services and involvement in church structure.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19950701-000010.html

In this topic it is important to recognize correlation does not imply causation, as noted above. However, even as an atheist, I don't believe we should ignore the correlations presented. I've mentioned that I equate prayer with meditation, as both focus the mind and relieve stress in day-to-day life. Stress is perhaps the primary factor in a wide range of health problems and complications. Actual studies of meditation have shown us the benefits in a more solid context:


Maybe meditation isn't so mysterious after all. Neuroscientists have found that meditators shift their brain activity to different areas of the cortex - brain waves in the stress-prone right frontal cortex move to the calmer left frontal cortex. This mental shift decreases the negative effects of stress, mild depression and anxiety. There is also less activity in the amygdala, where the brain processes fear.


http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030424-000003.html

[serenity]

So...rather than resort to (what I consider) superstition, we should meditate, and attempt to forge stronger ties with a like-minded community. Sounds plausible to me.

[Ethos]

So...rather than resort to (what I consider) superstition, we should meditate, and attempt to forge stronger ties with a like-minded community. Sounds plausible to me.

Where a person's health is concerned, I see no reason why they should not do what works for them. For some that means basic meditation, for others that means becoming part of a faith(religion)-based community.

If the end is the same, why do the means matter?

Ethos

[serenity]

Where a person's health is concerned, I see no reason why they should not do what works for them. For some that means basic meditation, for others that means becoming part of a faith(religion)-based community.

If the end is the same, why do the means matter?


Well, I suppose in a way they don’t, ultimately…except I could ask, “Why aren’t you, Ethos, religious?”

Presumably because you have come, perhaps with the proper humble tentativeness, to think that you don’t feel confident that God exists.

It’s a matter of searching for the truth, of trying, as best we can, to know the truth.

I think Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc, are wrong (just as they all think the others are all wrong). I could be somehow mistaken, no doubt.

Does the truth, or rather the sincere attempt to discover the truth, matter at all?

[Ethos]

Well, I suppose in a way they don’t, ultimately…except I could ask, “Why aren’t you, Ethos, religious?”

Presumably because you have come, perhaps with the proper humble tentativeness, to think that you don’t feel confident that God exists.

It’s a matter of searching for the truth, of trying, as best we can, to know the truth.

I think Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc, are wrong (just as they all think the others are all wrong). I could be somehow mistaken, no doubt.

Does the truth, or rather the sincere attempt to discover the truth, matter at all?

Yes and no. As long as a person's process for discovering "truth" does not impede the lives of others, I would suggest it doesn't really matter. Eventually we end up in the same place, and if a little faith in a god gives a person some happiness in their short life, who am I to deny them that?

It would be as if an Evangelical came to me and insisted I could not be a happy, fulfilled individual without Jesus Christ in my life. They might well ask me the same question - is the discovery of Truth not important?

The truth in this case is that meditation, prayer, and close social communities - such as those fostered through religion - carry with them some basic health-related benefits. Just because I might consider non-faith alternatives to be more beneficial in the long run (or for a wider range of contexts) does not mean I can invalidate the others entirely.

Ethos

[eugene40]

Where a person's health is concerned, I see no reason why they should not do what works for them. For some that means basic meditation, for others that means becoming part of a faith(religion)-based community.

If the end is the same, why do the means matter?

Ethos

Well an argument could be made that one group (prayer) Looks outside them self for the answer and some believe that "god" talks back to them. Which is what happens to some Schizophrenics. :) ....... While the others look within themselves to find answers, or tries to empty the mind of useless thoughts and such in order to destress their lives and possibly gain some insight into themselves and their problems. etc etc....

[Ethos]

Well an argument could be made that one group (prayer) Looks outside them self for the answer and some believe that "god" talks back to them. Which is what happens to some Schizophrenics. :) ....... While the others look within themselves to find answers, or tries to empty the mind of useless thoughts and such in order to destress their lives and possibly gain some insight into themselves and their problems. etc etc....

You could make the argument, but you haven't answered the basic question. If one person looks outward, and one inward, yet both have lower anxiety levels in the process (as an example), why does the difference in process matter?

True schizophrenia is almost always associated with high levels of anxiety or other negative emotional disturbances. I don't believe we should attempt to make that analogy here.

Ethos

[eugene40]

You could make the argument, but you haven't answered the basic question. If one person looks outward, and one inward, yet both have lower anxiety levels in the process (as an example), why does the difference in process matter?

It doesn't really. However, I find that internal strength lasts longer and is better for you, then thinking a big man in the sky is helping you out.

True schizophrenia is almost always associated with high levels of anxiety or other negative emotional disturbances. I don't believe we should attempt to make that analogy here.

Well I guess it would depend on the level of religiocity. You have the ones that pray and despite not being answered they still have faith. Then you have the ones that think that "god" talks to them. People like Bush come to mind. Robertson, Falwell, lots of evangelicals, and my favorite religous person and yours.Vernon Wayne Howell aka David Koresh. I see no difference between the lot of them, save that one actually died for his beliefs.

[Turenne]

Surely, self-delusion (assuming you are insincere about your religious beliefs) is not beneficial?

[Ethos]

Surely, self-delusion (assuming you are insincere about your religious beliefs) is not beneficial?

I'm afraid I don't quite know what you're asking. How does the sincerity of belief relate to delusion?

[Turenne]

Apologies, rather silly question.

[Ethos]

It doesn't really. However, I find that internal strength lasts longer and is better for you, then thinking a big man in the sky is helping you out.

This I believe is true, which is why I would encourage a non-faith system, if for no other reason than because the basis of that faith may be fragile.



Well I guess it would depend on the level of religiocity. You have the ones that pray and despite not being answered they still have faith. Then you have the ones that think that "god" talks to them. People like Bush come to mind. Robertson, Falwell, lots of evangelicals, and my favorite religous person and yours.Vernon Wayne Howell aka David Koresh. I see no difference between the lot of them, save that one actually died for his beliefs.

The standard diagnosis for schizophrenia does not apply to most of these individuals (not that I feel they are all mentally stable), however I believe the issue here may be what I've placed in bold above. If you see no difference between a man believing himself to be Jesus Christ and a man who simply prays to him, I would question whether your animosities are entirely justified.

Ethos

[Ethos]

Apologies, rather silly question.

Taking out the parentheses for a moment, I can answer that self-delusion is in fact an extremely beneficial behavior, so long as it is not taken to extremes.

Ethos

[Groucho]

This study should be coupled with the one that shows that there is absolutely no health benefit for other people to pray for you.

That way it is clear that was is healthy for you is a positive relaxed lifestyle, and not something supernatural.

[Ethos]

This study should be coupled with the one that shows that there is absolutely no health benefit for other people to pray for you.

That way it is clear that was is healthy for you is a positive relaxed lifestyle, and not something supernatural.

I agree. This is why I stress individual benefits over the group.

Ethos

[Blueangel]

I agree that strong will and meditation can't be detrimental to recovery, but the best faith to have is in yourself and your ability to overcome what ails you.
It's just positive mental attitude.

[Dangerrmouse]

This from a Royal College of Psychiatrists' leaflet on Spirituality and Mental Health. I prefer that term to "faith".

" ... Spirituality, described as “linking the deeply personal with the universal”, is inclusive and unifying. It naturally leads to the recognition that to harm another is to harm oneself, and equally that helping others is to help oneself. It applies to everyone, including those who do not believe in God or a ‘higher being’.

The universality of spirituality extends across creed and culture; at the same time spirituality is felt as unique to each and every person.

Religions offer community-based worship, each faith having its own set of beliefs and sacred traditions. However, when there is a lack of respect for differences of belief, religion has been used as a social and political tool leading to intolerance and divisiveness. ... "

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/therapies/spiritualityandmentalhealth.aspx

[Ethos]

I agree that strong will and meditation can't be detrimental to recovery,

This is an interesting interpretation of my initial post. Your phrasing would seem to indicate a more neutral result. I take it that you disagree with the concept of tangible benefits?


but the best faith to have is in yourself and your ability to overcome what ails you.


I agree. I'm interested to know how you would rationalize this assertion?

Ethos

[Ethos]

This from a Royal College of Psychiatrists' leaflet on Spirituality and Mental Health. I prefer that term to "faith".

" ... Spirituality, described as “linking the deeply personal with the universal”, is inclusive and unifying. It naturally leads to the recognition that to harm another is to harm oneself, and equally that helping others is to help oneself. It applies to everyone, including those who do not believe in God or a ‘higher being’.

The universality of spirituality extends across creed and culture; at the same time spirituality is felt as unique to each and every person.

Religions offer community-based worship, each faith having its own set of beliefs and sacred traditions. However, when there is a lack of respect for differences of belief, religion has been used as a social and political tool leading to intolerance and divisiveness. ... "

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/therapies/spiritualityandmentalhealth.aspx

Perhaps one of the best differentiations I have seen between true spirituality and excessive fundamentalism. Thank you for the link.

Ethos

[Blueangel]

This is an interesting interpretation of my initial post. Your phrasing would seem to indicate a more neutral result. I take it that you disagree with the concept of tangible benefits?

That's not what I feel...
I was brought up in a faith and lapsed when I was 11.
18 years later, I attended a few masses alone, more as an observer than anything. One particular mass struck me as little more than a mantra because it was held in low light conditions and was very relaxing with about 60 people present.

A few weeks later, I attended an incredibly grand midnight mass with a full orchestra, choir and four solo vocalists. 2,500 people were in the cathedral and the sound quality was so astonishing that it nearly brought me to tears.

I'm not religious. I see religious ceremonies as a lifelong, familiar mantra, so I can easily believe that people can draw a lot of strength from something that is so familiar and comforting to them.


I agree. I'm interested to know how you would rationalize this assertion?

EthosSome religious faiths can give their members the impression that whatever happens to them, it's God's will and the path that God has chosen for them.
I reject that because I think it can actually be detrimental to recovery in some cases.

Regardless of whether you have a faith or not, P.M.A. will get you a long way towards recovery.

My personal belief is that whatever happens, you keep going because there is no alternative.

[eugene40]

This I believe is true, which is why I would encourage a non-faith system, if for no other reason than because the basis of that faith may be fragile.

This is the main issue I have with all faith based addiction cures. You are not strong enough, only with "fillin the blank here" can you be saved.


The standard diagnosis for schizophrenia does not apply to most of these individuals (not that I feel they are all mentally stable), however I believe the issue here may be what I've placed in bold above. If you see no difference between a man believing himself to be Jesus Christ and a man who simply prays to him, I would question whether your animosities are entirely justified.


Well that would depend on the level of schizoprenia, you don't always have to be a paranoid. You can be an operational. However clearly if it wasn't related to "god" these people would be locked up. Or at least heavily medicated.


Who is to say he wasn't the reincarnation of Jesus Christ? Is it because he didn't resurrect?
What about people that think they talk directly to Jesus? And that Jesus answers them? The only difference would be the step further Koresh took in saying that he was Jesus Christ. But both are in my opinion delusional. And for me delusional is delusional.

[Ethos]

This is the main issue I have with all faith based addiction cures. You are not strong enough, only with "fillin the blank here" can you be saved.

I agree on the level of theory, but there are practical considerations in this case. If a person is abusing deadly substances (alcohol, meth, etc) and they are statistically more likely to survive and recover using a faith-based program, then I have no problem with that particular system.

There may come a time where there is sufficient 'critical mass' of secular structured treatment programs upon which to base a more viable recovery model. However at the present time it is important to focus on the practical matters of survival over more abstract concepts.



Who is to say he wasn't the reincarnation of Jesus Christ? Is it because he didn't resurrect?
What about people that think they talk directly to Jesus? And that Jesus answers them? The only difference would be the step further Koresh took in saying that he was Jesus Christ. But both are in my opinion delusional. And for me delusional is delusional.

This is where I disagree. There are certainly varying degrees of delusion.

Ethos