Ole Sparky Lives!

[Heads_On_Pikes]

South Carolina executes man in electric chair
Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:39am EDT

MIAMI (Reuters) - South Carolina on Friday electrocuted a man for murdering his ex-girlfriend's parents in 1994, the second execution in the state since a Supreme Court ruling lifted a de facto national moratorium, a state official said.

James Earl Reed, 49, was convicted in 1996 of shooting Joseph and Barbara Lafayette multiple times, including execution-style shots in the heads, after they refused to tell him where their daughter was. He had dismissed his attorney during his trial and tried to defend himself in court.

"The execution of James Earl Reed was carried out at 11:27 p.m.," state prison spokesman Josh Gelinas said.

The execution had been scheduled for 6 p.m. EDT but was halted at the last minute and delayed for nearly 5 1/2 hours while lawyers made final appeals.

The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately cleared the way for the execution.

Reed became the eighth person to be put to death in the United States since the high court in April rejected a legal challenge to the three-drug cocktail used in most executions for the past 30 years.

Reed chose to die in the electric chair, the first death row inmate in South Carolina in more than four years to choose electrocution over lethal injection.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2130755920080621


I hope his eyeballs exploded. :D

[Missouri Mule]

News of this nature always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. The only downside is that it takes so long to mete out justice.

When I was growing up in 1954 we had a kidnapping in Missouri. The perps were caught and executed within 60 days. Nowadays the criminals have more rights than the victims thanks to the efforts of the ACLU and other bleeding hearts who believe that these individuals are merely misunderstood. They aren't depraved; they are merely deprived.

Electrocution is effective but must be administered properly. The electrodes must be moistened properly or the condemned will have their hair set on fire and they will suffer unnecessarily. If it is done properly it is quick and effective. The serial murderer Ted Bundy was electrocuted and frankly it wouldn't have bothered me if his hair had caught on fire but no such luck. He brutally murdered at least 36 young and beautiful women to satisfy his sexual depravities. Some estimates have said it numbered as high as ten times that number.

[Heads_On_Pikes]

News of this nature always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. The only downside is that it takes so long to mete out justice.



Tell me about it. It took the state of Illinois 20 years to put down a filthy animal named Ray Lee Stewart. That pig executed a friend of mine ... while he was working his part-time job at a gas station. Made him and a co-worker get on their knees and shot them. Ray Lee went on a killing spree with a short barreled .38. The bastard actually escaped for a couple of hours during his trial for, as I recall, six murders. He was shot as he escaped, handcuffed, down a stairwell in the courthouse.

A local radio reporter was walking with the police officer who re-apprehended Ray Lee. he was hiding in an ally in a fifty gallon drum in a alley. Ray's afro sticking up above the rim of the barrel gave him away. The policeman screwed the barrel of his .38 into Ray's ear and said "now you aren't going to give me any trouble, are you Ray?". He should have pulled the trigger.

[GI Joe]

I am against the death penalty unless guilt is proven beyond any doubt. I think it also should be limited to heinous crimes such as serial killers like Bundy, child rapist murderers, traitors and other such brutal sick **** types like Ray Lee. When guilt is proven beyond any doubt is the standard then the apeals should be limited so it does not take 20 years on death row

[Groucho]

I am against the death penalty not because I feel sorry for these people -- I didn't shed a tear for Timothy McVeigh -- but because there are too many innocent people who have been executed (or released with new evidence).

I don't there should be a 100% irreversible punishment when our system is not 100% perfect.

And every time I try to come up with some guidelines that could work (in order to get the death penalty, you have to have been witnessed by X many people, DNA match, etc etc etc) it just leads to more problems with exceptions and appeals and issues that are even worse.

You guys do realize that if you get rid of the death penalty, 80% of all those appeals you hate go away too, right?

[Demon of Light]

South Carolina executes man in electric chair
Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:39am EDT

MIAMI (Reuters) - South Carolina on Friday electrocuted a man for murdering his ex-girlfriend's parents in 1994, the second execution in the state since a Supreme Court ruling lifted a de facto national moratorium, a state official said.

James Earl Reed, 49, was convicted in 1996 of shooting Joseph and Barbara Lafayette multiple times, including execution-style shots in the heads, after they refused to tell him where their daughter was. He had dismissed his attorney during his trial and tried to defend himself in court.

"The execution of James Earl Reed was carried out at 11:27 p.m.," state prison spokesman Josh Gelinas said.

The execution had been scheduled for 6 p.m. EDT but was halted at the last minute and delayed for nearly 5 1/2 hours while lawyers made final appeals.

The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately cleared the way for the execution.

Reed became the eighth person to be put to death in the United States since the high court in April rejected a legal challenge to the three-drug cocktail used in most executions for the past 30 years.

Reed chose to die in the electric chair, the first death row inmate in South Carolina in more than four years to choose electrocution over lethal injection.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2130755920080621


I hope his eyeballs exploded. :D

Why do you get so much pleasure out of death?

[GI Joe]

I am against the death penalty not because I feel sorry for these people -- I didn't shed a tear for Timothy McVeigh -- but because there are too many innocent people who have been executed (or released with new evidence).

I don't there should be a 100% irreversible punishment when our system is not 100% perfect.

And every time I try to come up with some guidelines that could work (in order to get the death penalty, you have to have been witnessed by X many people, DNA match, etc etc etc) it just leads to more problems with exceptions and appeals and issues that are even worse.

You guys do realize that if you get rid of the death penalty, 80% of all those appeals you hate go away too, right?

Cases like Dahmer, Bundy, Gacey, Ames, and Hansen were cases where there was no doubt they were guilty.

[Groucho]

Cases like Dahmer, Bundy, Gacey, Ames, and Hansen were cases where there was no doubt they were guilty.

Yeah, I know, but who gets to decide that there is "no doubt"? Isn't every case pretty much "no doubt" to the jury?

I mean, if they allowed me to decide, there would be no problem. :D

[GI Joe]

Yeah, I know, but who gets to decide that there is "no doubt"? Isn't every case pretty much "no doubt" to the jury?

I mean, if they allowed me to decide, there would be no problem. :D


Judge and Jury decide

[jamesrage]

I am against the death penalty not because I feel sorry for these people -- I didn't shed a tear for Timothy McVeigh -- but because there are too many innocent people who have been executed (or released with new evidence).


Do you honestly believe that Timothy McVeigh might be innocent or that there is a small chance sliver of a chance he might be innocent?

I don't there should be a 100% irreversible punishment when our system is not 100% perfect.


Would you support the death penalty if our system was perfect?Most anti-death penalty people do not care.The whole "what about the .001% chance the individual might be innocent" is just bogus ploy to help justify their anti-death penalty stand.


You guys do realize that if you get rid of the death penalty, 80% of all those appeals you hate go away too, right?
But then we the tax payers as well the victim's family and friends would have to pay for the room and board of these scum.Not only did that dirtbag kill your loved now you get to pay for his room, security, healthcare, food, entertainment, library,internet and what ever rat lawyer he may want to use in order to try to weasel out of his punishment,

[jamesrage]

Why do you get so much pleasure out of death?

Perhaps it is pleasure in knowing that someone received an just/appropriate punishment for their crime.

[Demon of Light]

Do you honestly believe that Timothy McVeigh might be innocent or that there is a small chance sliver of a chance he might be innocent?

Honestly, that's why I think the argument about innocence is bull****. We can have a picture perfect video of someone committing a mass-murder. Would it then be ok to use the death penalty? It's simply not a solid argument and I think is just a way for people who actually don't have a moral opposition to killing to stake a position which will be supported by those who do.

My position is that the government shouldn't be in the business of killing people it can simply imprison for life.

Perhaps it is pleasure in knowing that someone received an just/appropriate punishment for their crime.

It doesn't matter how you want to spin it. In the end you're still talking about someone taking pleasure in the death of another person.

[Heads_On_Pikes]

Why do you get so much pleasure out of death?

It's not pleasure in any way. I always think of the victims first. EFF the perp!

Sometimes crimes or a series of crimes is so horrible, and so provable beyond a doubt ... that the SOB should be put down. Call that whatever you like. I'll call it closure for the families of the victims.

[Groucho]

Do you honestly believe that Timothy McVeigh might be innocent or that there is a small chance sliver of a chance he might be innocent?

Nope.

Would you support the death penalty if our system was perfect?Most anti-death penalty people do not care.The whole "what about the .001% chance the individual might be innocent" is just bogus ploy to help justify their anti-death penalty stand.

I can't see how the system could be 100% perfect, seriously. As a criminal defense attorney, I have seen plenty of examples of innocent people being convicted (and guilty ones getting acquitted).

But then we the tax payers as well the victim's family and friends would have to pay for the room and board of these scum.Not only did that dirtbag kill your loved now you get to pay for his room, security, healthcare, food, entertainment, library,internet and what ever rat lawyer he may want to use in order to try to weasel out of his punishment,

(1) Getting rid of the death penalty would get rid of a lot of those appeals; (2) many studies show that with all the appeals, it's costlier to have a death penalty than to house them; (3) entertainment and internet? What capital crime prison has those things?

[Demon of Light]

It's not pleasure in any way. I always think of the victims first. EFF the perp!

Sometimes crimes or a series of crimes is so horrible, and so provable beyond a doubt ... that the SOB should be put down. Call that whatever you like. I'll call it closure for the families of the victims.

So joking about a man's eyeballs exploding after he's dead is what, bemoaning the loss to his family?

[dittohead not!]

I used to be in favor of the death penalty. Here's what changed my mind:

The Innocence Project finding over 200 innocent people in prison.
Reading The Innocent Man by Grischam, a true story of two innocent men on death row.
Coming to the conclusion that being put to death is a lesser punishment for the real monsters than being locked up in a supermax.
Watching the spectacle of people who have committed truly appalling crimes having appeal after appeal, costing the taxpayers millions.

[GI Joe]

I used to be in favor of the death penalty. Here's what changed my mind:

The Innocence Project finding over 200 innocent people in prison.
Reading The Innocent Man by Grischam, a true story of two innocent men on death row.
Coming to the conclusion that being put to death is a lesser punishment for the real monsters than being locked up in a supermax.
Watching the spectacle of people who have committed truly appalling crimes having appeal after appeal, costing the taxpayers millions.


I too used to be fully in favor of the DP. The innocence project and some cases that some of which were not even DP cases where the person was found truly innocent after many years in prison changed my opinion.

There was one non DP case here in Cleveland of a man who spent 17 years in prison for a rape he did not commit. I thought about how horrible it would be to spend 17 years in prison for a crime you were completly innocent of, how much things had changed in that time, how the world kept going without you, how nothing could make up for those lost years. I then thought at least he has the ability and chance to try to put together his life where if it had been a DP case and he was executed there would be no chance and no partial justice for him.

As I said previously I have revised my thinking to only support it in cases of absolutly no doubt and only for heinous crimes including treason

[Groucho]

One of the lawyers in my county has been trying to get the PA Bar Association to recommend to the legislature a new law concerning death penalty cases.

He thinks that there should be two standards: First, in order to find someone guilty, you have to find them so "beyond a reasonable doubt" (the current standard)

Then, once you do that, in order to enact the death penalty, you would have a second vote, and this time you would have to find the person guilty "beyond all doubt" (i.e.: 100% positive he's guilty).

The problem with this is human nature. What juror would not say they are 100% positive in any death penalty case? Almost all do so now (and many have been proven wrong, of course). And does it make a mockery of our system if we have two standards like that? Doesn't that just lower the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard in people's minds since there would now be a higher one?

Anyway, I just thought I would throw this idea out for discussion.

[Missouri Mule]

Anyone here want to argue that O.J. was innocent? Or Gacy? Or Dahmer; or Bundy? Or Rader?

What is the point of locking them up at taxpayer expense? Where is the justice?

[Heads_On_Pikes]

So joking about a man's eyeballs exploding after he's dead is what, bemoaning the loss to his family?

His eyeballs would have popped out of the sockets before death. **** that turd.

Fee oh sooo sorry for him if you wish ... I do not ... I hope he suffered horribly with his choice of execution methods.

[Groucho]

The examples people always give about the more extreme examples miss the point.

Sure there are obvious people who are guilty. No one denies that. (So please stop arguing it)

The problem is all the other ones that aren't 100% obvious. And this isn't just supposition -- hundreds have been released from jail who were actually innocent.

So unless you can come up with some way to make sure that only the 100% ones get convicted -- the ones we all agree are guilty, without a doubt -- then we still have the problem of innocent people being put to death.

So far the only response I have seen is basically "I don't care if innocent people are put to death." And if you don't care, then nothing anyone can say matters, does it?

[Missouri Mule]

The examples people always give about the more extreme examples miss the point.

Sure there are obvious people who are guilty. No one denies that. (So please stop arguing it)

The problem is all the other ones that aren't 100% obvious. And this isn't just supposition -- hundreds have been released from jail who were actually innocent.

So unless you can come up with some way to make sure that only the 100% ones get convicted -- the ones we all agree are guilty, without a doubt -- then we still have the problem of innocent people being put to death.

So far the only response I have seen is basically "I don't care if innocent people are put to death." And if you don't care, then nothing anyone can say matters, does it?

I'm only interesting in executing those who are "obviously guilty."

When did I say "I don't care if innocent people are put to death"? Who says that?

[Groucho]

I'm only interesting in executing those who are "obviously guilty."

Yes, of course -- but who determines that? How can be sure? Doesn't every jury think the person is "obviously guilty"?

That's the problem we cannot solve, and that is why many of us are against the death penalty ... Not because we feel sorry for the evil people who really deserve it, but because we are human and make mistakes and sometimes innocent people are wrongly killed.

[Missouri Mule]

Yes, of course -- but who determines that? How can be sure? Doesn't every jury think the person is "obviously guilty"?

That's the problem we cannot solve, and that is why many of us are against the death penalty ... Not because we feel sorry for the evil people who really deserve it, but because we are human and make mistakes and sometimes innocent people are wrongly killed.

I was quite specific. Do you believe any of the individuals that I cited were innocent?

[Crosscheck]

South Carolina executes man in electric chair
Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:39am EDT

MIAMI (Reuters) -
I hope his eyeballs exploded. :D

Just for your information eyeballs won't explode but can pop out from the electrical charge.

As for the death penalty, things just aren't as they seem in some murders. My own grandfather shot and blew the head off a sheriff but was found innocent. Many here would of immediately wanted him hung for killing a law enforcement agent well alone a sheriff. But sometimes there is a thin line between good and bad. If the death penalty crowd had there way then I wouldn't be writing right now.

[Groucho]

I was quite specific. Do you believe any of the individuals that I cited were innocent?

So what is your solution then? We poll everyone in America until we all agree?

[Ed Sane]

I have always been torn on the death penalty issue. I don't have a problem putting murders, or rapists to death. I knew a little girl once who was molested over the course of a year and finally killed by her father when school counselors noticed her grades plummeting. In this case both the wife and husband are dead (vigilantes) it doesn't bother me at all how justice was carried out in this instance. Videotapes which were found during searches of their home proved beyond all doubt they will guilty of terrible crimes.

My problem with the death penalty has more to do with my deep distrust of the court system, which I developed after being selected for jury service. I left the court house deeply ashamed of our system and the jury selection process, it just didn't seem to be working. Jurors were by far more occupied with their own lives (cellphones etc) then the case at hand. I could easily see an innocent man being convicted regardless of the "evidence".

[Demon of Light]

Fee oh sooo sorry for him if you wish ... I do not ... I hope he suffered horribly with his choice of execution methods.

So then, you do take pleasure in the death of another person. As long as you acknowledge your vengeful bloodlust.

Not because we feel sorry for the evil people who really deserve it

Who determines who is evil or deserves it. Do you place yourself in the company of God?

I have always been torn on the death penalty issue. I don't have a problem putting murders, or rapists to death. I knew a little girl once who was molested over the course of a year and finally killed by her father when school counselors noticed her grades plummeting. In this case both the wife and husband are dead (vigilantes) it doesn't bother me at all how justice was carried out in this instance. Videotapes which were found during searches of their home proved beyond all doubt they will guilty of terrible crimes.

Yes, mete out justice on your own terms, become the right hand of Death. In order to create a perfect and beautiful society, this world must be cleansed by blood.

[Crosscheck]

Yes, mete out justice on your own terms, become the right hand of Death. In order to create a perfect and beautiful society, this world must be cleansed by blood.

I share the same concern Ed Sane has with the death penalty in that our system is so corrupt one could see an innocent sent to the chair.

But I also share with him that some acts are so beyond human understanding of the brutality that yes it would be better to have the perp shot on site.

We had one here couple years back where the perp killed the parents then took the two children off to the mountains. Once there he set up camp and daily molested them. He grew tired of the 8 year old boy and threw him into the campfire. He kept the little girl continuing to violate her and video taping the acts. In this case they have the video tape of him violating the children and he was finally caught with the little girl. This guy is beyond disgusting and I don't have a problem with him being extinguished. It has nothing to do with creating a beautiful society. The damage is irreversible. Innocent lives destroyed and ruined. There just isn't anything redeemable in this perp.

[Demon of Light]

I share the same concern Ed Sane has with the death penalty in that our system is so corrupt one could see an innocent sent to the chair.

But I also share with him that some acts are so beyond human understanding of the brutality that yes it would be better to have the perp shot on site.

We had one here couple years back where the perp killed the parents then took the two children off to the mountains. Once there he set up camp and daily molested them. He grew tired of the 8 year old boy and threw him into the campfire. He kept the little girl continuing to violate her and video taping the acts. In this case they have the video tape of him violating the children and he was finally caught with the little girl. This guy is beyond disgusting and I don't have a problem with him being extinguished. It has nothing to do with creating a beautiful society. The damage is irreversible. Innocent lives destroyed and ruined. There just isn't anything redeemable in this perp.

On some countries there might be practical reasoning for the death penalty. I know in China part of the reason the death penalty is so common there is because a life sentence usually amounts to ten years. However, even there is certain like here it has a lot to do with vengeance and a belief that some people should be killed for no reason other than that they did something horrible.

There's no practical argument for the death penalty in the United Statess. We can have them locked up for life, insuring they can not do harm to anyone again.

However, I certainly don't think we should extend the death penalty to non-lethal crimes. Sane said murderers and rapists, presumably meaning someone who did not kill anyone but did commit rape. I think when you start killing people who have killed no one you're going down an even worse path than those being condemned to die.

We used to do that in the U.S. too, kill people for non-lethal crimes.

[dittohead not!]

I share the same concern Ed Sane has with the death penalty in that our system is so corrupt one could see an innocent sent to the chair.

But I also share with him that some acts are so beyond human understanding of the brutality that yes it would be better to have the perp shot on site.

We had one here couple years back where the perp killed the parents then took the two children off to the mountains. Once there he set up camp and daily molested them. He grew tired of the 8 year old boy and threw him into the campfire. He kept the little girl continuing to violate her and video taping the acts. In this case they have the video tape of him violating the children and he was finally caught with the little girl. This guy is beyond disgusting and I don't have a problem with him being extinguished. It has nothing to do with creating a beautiful society. The damage is irreversible. Innocent lives destroyed and ruined. There just isn't anything redeemable in this perp.

A man as evil as that deserves the maximum punishment he can be given in this life. The question is this:

Is the maximum punishment a painless (relatively) death, or is it to be locked up for the rest of his life in a super max prison with no human contact ever?

If it were me, I'd beg for the needle, or even for "Old Sparky."

[Ed Sane]

However, I certainly don't think we should extend the death penalty to non-lethal crimes. Sane said murderers and rapists, presumably meaning someone who did not kill anyone but did commit rape. I think when you start killing people who have killed no one you're going down an even worse path than those being condemned to die.

We used to do that in the U.S. too, kill people for non-lethal crimes.

I think I was trying to type out murdering rapists etc and it got jumbled. I fully admit I had been up for 30 hours when I typed this (two jobs can do that to you) As it stands now I am against the death penalty. Which if you had read the second half of my post you would have realized that. I would only support the death penalty for murder or if the victim had been mentally destroyed (torture).

As it stands now I dont support it with our corrupt system. But at the same time jail is not just rehabilitation its also a punishment. If we lock someone up for life and there never allowed to leave then its a punishment. I see nothing wrong with going one step further and ending their life. However I like the idea that it must be "beyond all doubt" for that to be implemented.

The point I made with vigilante justice, even though it was an unlawful way to go about things. It doesnt bother me because justice was served. However if they were caught, I still feel we should uphold the law accordling, they could have let the court system take care of the mess. However I clearly have a bias in this case.

[Crosscheck]

A man as evil as that deserves the maximum punishment he can be given in this life. The question is this:

Is the maximum punishment a painless (relatively) death, or is it to be locked up for the rest of his life in a super max prison with no human contact ever?

If it were me, I'd beg for the needle, or even for "Old Sparky."

On one part you seem to advocate that life in prison is more punishing than capitol punishment. Which one is more humane?
If you saw dog hit by a vehicle miles away from any town and it is still alive barely. Do you put it out of its misery or do you drive on thinking let it live long as it can?
I know that is a pretty childish question but it does beg some thought.

I really don't know what is right. I do know that in some cases involving child torture and murder that capitol punishment seems to be appropriate and called for. Many feel that life in prison is punishment enough. But,,,,but,,I found the most interesting fact that kind of blew me away.
Blacks were much less likely to die in prison because of the high homicide rate for those on the outside, Mumola said.


Now, that just blows me away.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070124/ai_n17151235

[Demon of Light]

I think I was trying to type out murdering rapists etc and it got jumbled. I fully admit I had been up for 30 hours when I typed this (two jobs can do that to you) As it stands now I am against the death penalty. Which if you had read the second half of my post you would have realized that. I would only support the death penalty for murder or if the victim had been mentally destroyed (torture).

As it stands now I dont support it with our corrupt system. But at the same time jail is not just rehabilitation its also a punishment. If we lock someone up for life and there never allowed to leave then its a punishment. I see nothing wrong with going one step further and ending their life. However I like the idea that it must be "beyond all doubt" for that to be implemented.

The point I made with vigilante justice, even though it was an unlawful way to go about things. It doesnt bother me because justice was served. However if they were caught, I still feel we should uphold the law accordling, they could have let the court system take care of the mess. However I clearly have a bias in this case.

I'm glad you weren't taking the position that even those who don't get kill should be killed. Also, while I am aware you oppose it you also seem to be willing to support the essence of it.

The argument just doesn't work because there are some cases where it is irrefutable that a person committed a capital offense. Let's say a standard was set on the death penalty that if there was verifiable recorded video showing a person committing a murder then the death penalty would be open for that person. Could you really give an objection to that?

It's an argument for reform not abolition.

[dittohead not!]

On one part you seem to advocate that life in prison is more punishing than capitol punishment. Which one is more humane?
If you saw dog hit by a vehicle miles away from any town and it is still alive barely. Do you put it out of its misery or do you drive on thinking let it live long as it can?
I know that is a pretty childish question but it does beg some thought.

I really don't know what is right. I do know that in some cases involving child torture and murder that capitol punishment seems to be appropriate and called for. Many feel that life in prison is punishment enough. But,,,,but,,I found the most interesting fact that kind of blew me away.

Now, that just blows me away.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070124/ai_n17151235


I think that life in prison, especially in a super max prison where the inmate has little or no contact with any human being, and nothing to look forward to except perhaps an hour a day in an exerecise yard with high concrete walls, where he will never again see the sun, the sky, or experience anything other than concrete walls and bars, is a more severe punishment than a quick death.

Of couse, I don't know what god's punishment might be.

[GI Joe]

However, I certainly don't think we should extend the death penalty to non-lethal crimes. Sane said murderers and rapists, presumably meaning someone who did not kill anyone but did commit rape. I think when you start killing people who have killed no one you're going down an even worse path than those being condemned to die.

We used to do that in the U.S. too, kill people for non-lethal crimes.

BS!!!!!
There are plenty non lethal crimes deserving the DP

The ****tards that still write checks in a checkout line. DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!


The ****tards with a ****load of coupons and is not ready with them at checkout delaying everyone. DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

The ****tards arguing about a 5 cent off coupon being valid. DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

I would say all coupon clippers but I realize some do need them.

I have more non lethal cases for DP but I went thru those tonight at the grocery store. I remember one time I was in a rush an this **** was pulling every coupon out for everything, she wasnt ready. I got so pissed I said for the love of god screw those coupons here is $20, now move it. The line applauded me.



On a serious note, treason should be death.

[serenity]

Well, one fun thing about this thread is that I find myself in agreement with Demon of Light, and we've been disagreeing about everything lately. :)


And while the following is by no means my only objection, it's still interesting to note: The Death Penalty is THE ultimate support for Big Government...just by the way.

[dittohead not!]

Well, one fun thing about this thread is that I find myself in agreement with Demon of Light, and we've been disagreeing about everything lately. :)


And while the following is by no means my only objection, it's still interesting to note: The Death Penalty is THE ultimate support for Big Government...just by the way.

Ironic, isn't it, how the same ones who call themselves conservatives, and speak out about the excessive power of government, seem to espouse giving that same government more power? You made the same apt observation in the thread "Detainee Abuse Laws Hatched in Secret ".

This is exactly where the one dimensional, right to left political model breaks down. The conservatives who also support the death penalty, extra judicial powers for combating "terrorism", and government interference in marriage and reproductive rights are not really being duplicitous. What they are doing is mixing two of the three dimensions of the political spectrum: The traditional left to right, limited government to powerful government spectrum that most of us see as the liberal to conservative continuum, and the other axis, the libertarian to authoritarian one. It is possible to be a conservative, meaning favoring limited government, on the one hand, while being an authoritarian on the other. Of course, there is a third dimension, and possibly a fourth one as well, but those don't apply here very well.

[Heads_On_Pikes]

And while the following is by no means my only objection, it's still interesting to note: The Death Penalty is THE ultimate support for Big Government...just by the way.

Do you think housing, feeding, and clothing some <note the word "some"> of these animals year-after-year doesn't throw another log on the fire of Big Government? We're probably talking about nickels and dimes in thr whole scheme of things ... but still ...

I just can't figure the average taxpayer savings of housing these "beyond a reasonable doubt" predators .... the usual twenty years or so of legal appeals vs.

Where's the "THE ultimate support for Big Government"?

[Alvin T. Grey]

Anyone here want to argue that O.J. was innocent? Or Gacy? Or Dahmer; or Bundy? Or Rader?

What is the point of locking them up at taxpayer expense? Where is the justice?

You kill them, you learn nothing of what makes them tick. From a practical point of view, it's a resource that could prove invaluable in spotting the next Bundy.

[serenity]

Ironic, isn't it, how the same ones who call themselves conservatives, and speak out about the excessive power of government, seem to espouse giving that same government more power? You made the same apt observation in the thread "Detainee Abuse Laws Hatched in Secret ".

This is exactly where the one dimensional, right to left political model breaks down. The conservatives who also support the death penalty, extra judicial powers for combating "terrorism", and government interference in marriage and reproductive rights are not really being duplicitous. What they are doing is mixing two of the three dimensions of the political spectrum: The traditional left to right, limited government to powerful government spectrum that most of us see as the liberal to conservative continuum, and the other axis, the libertarian to authoritarian one. It is possible to be a conservative, meaning favoring limited government, on the one hand, while being an authoritarian on the other. Of course, there is a third dimension, and possibly a fourth one as well, but those don't apply here very well.


yowza...excellent post, my man. :)

[serenity]

Do you think housing, feeding, and clothing some <note the word "some"> of these animals year-after-year doesn't throw another log on the fire of Big Government? We're probably talking about nickels and dimes in thr whole scheme of things ... but still ...

I just can't figure the average taxpayer savings of housing these "beyond a reasonable doubt" predators .... the usual twenty years or so of legal appeals vs.

Where's the "THE ultimate support for Big Government"?



Sure, but it's not the same thing.

Nothing--and I mean not one single thing--denotes Big Government more than the state's "right" to end the life of one of its citizens.

We have three broad choices here: let them be free; lock them up; or kill them.

Only the first is not "big government."

But killing them is the bigger of the remaining two.

[Alvin T. Grey]

I think that life in prison, especially in a super max prison where the inmate has little or no contact with any human being, and nothing to look forward to except perhaps an hour a day in an exerecise yard with high concrete walls, where he will never again see the sun, the sky, or experience anything other than concrete walls and bars, is a more severe punishment than a quick death.

Of couse, I don't know what god's punishment might be.

Who says he dosn't get that too? You know St. Peter waiting at the gates with a baseballbat with a nail in it, and a length of chain.;)