Man beheaded on bus to Winnipeg

[AgentM]

BRANDON, MAN. - A young man travelling on a Greyhound bus was stabbed to death and beheaded by a stranger in a horrifying act of apparently random violence.

The incident occurred on a bus travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg just before 10 p.m. Wednesday.

A man of about 18 who was sleeping with headphones on was suddenly attacked by his seat mate, according to the man who sat directly in front

He was stabbed repeatedly with a large hunting knife, sending blood spraying across the interior of the bus. The driver quickly pulled over and passengers fled out the front door.

The man then sawed off the victim's head and carried it to the front of the bus.

The two did not apparently know one another. The victim boarded the bus in Edmonton, one witness said, and the attacker boarded in Manitoba.

A standoff with police ensued until about 1 a.m. local time.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080731.wmanbus0731/BNStory/National/home
--

:eek: Holy Christ!

[Tuatara]

What the ____? Never ever heard of anything like this before.

[Dutch]

What the ____? Never ever heard of anything like this before.

Beheadings are really quite popular but not so much in canada.

[Joe Blow]

Maybe his music was too loud? :shrug:

[USA-1]

Sounds like the makings of a movie.

[rjamortega]

Beheadings are really quite popular but not so much in canada.

Hmm...I thought this kind of behaviour was common with liberals and canadians!?!


...or is it muslims and middle easterners??? :confused:...



Nope! I remember...it's progressives and san franciscans.:D

[Joe Blow]

The attacker has now been charged with 2nd degree murder according to the RCMP.
CBC.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/01/stabbing-victim.html)

[Crosscheck]

Beheadings are really quite popular but not so much in canada.

Somehow the word "popular" just doesn't fit. I know that manner of killing happens frequently in that great civilization of the middle east and down in that other great civilization of Mexico/Drug Kingdom. But popular?

[rjamortega]

Isn't it amazing the monstrous level of horror and evil that exists in this beautiful world?

[Oliphaunt]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.

[Alvin T. Grey]

Not really. People aren't used to random violent acts. It stuns you.

[Antipathy]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.I don't know Oli, the guy was clearly insane enough to murder a fellow passenger using a large hunting knife in public, so it would be a terribly risky intervention to attempt. I go so far as to say it would take bravery bordering on stupidity for anyone but the most highly trained to try and stop him.

[Dutch]

Somehow the word "popular" just doesn't fit. I know that manner of killing happens frequently in that great civilization of the middle east and down in that other great civilization of Mexico/Drug Kingdom. But popular?

Popular with some.

[rjamortega]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.

I can't fault these people when I imagine the picture of this murder. A crazed man with a large knife, slaughtering a man right before their eyes. A first responder would surely be the second victim.

[Joe Blow]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.

At least they had the presence of mind to barracade the door once they were out so the killer could not escape. There is no I.D. required to buy a long haul bus ticket.

[AgentM]

I can't fault these people when I imagine the picture of this murder. A crazed man with a large knife, slaughtering a man right before their eyes. A first responder would surely be the second victim.

That, and a lot of them didn't even realize what was going on until it was too late. By that time it was time to get the hell off.

[USA-1]

I can't fault these people when I imagine the picture of this murder. A crazed man with a large knife, slaughtering a man right before their eyes. A first responder would surely be the second victim.

Yeah it sounds like it would have been impossible to prevent and it is amazing there wewre not more victims.

[bowerbird]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.
I have seen a few psychotic episodes in my life and unless you are trained to deal with them it is very hard to intervene - people underestimate how scary and threatening such a situation would be. The sheer frenzy of the attack would suggest that the attacker was psychotic, manic and dangerous as hell.

Now for the inevitable cry of "If someone had an open carry licence they could have shot the maniac and saved the kid"

Yeah! riiiiiight!

The saddest part is the victim was so young - somewhere there is a family completely devastated by this news

[USA-1]

Now for the inevitable cry of "If someone had an open carry licence they could have shot the maniac and saved the kid"

Yeah! riiiiiight!



If a citizen with a handgun had shot the perp before he stabbed the kid he might have gone to jail or at the very least faced a lawsuit. I doubt if there was anyway to save the kid. I know I would not have taken on the crazy guy with the big knife. I would have tried to get my family away from him first and then anyone else. On the other hand , had he attacked my family I would have killed him or died trying.

[AgentM]

Well this incident has made international headlines. I've seen the story on the BBC and in The Guardian.

[Dangerrmouse]

The victim's family can at least be comforted by the knowledge that his horrific death provided the excuse for a couple of tasteful anti-muslim zingers.

[Dutch]

The victim's family can at least be comforted by the knowledge that his horrific death provided the excuse for a couple of tasteful anti-muslim zingers.

That would be anti muslim fundamentalist and mexican drug cartel zingers. Are you afraid of hurting someone's feelings? You're such a tender soul. Bless your heart. :flowers:

[Blueangel]

I heard this story break this morning and almost took it as a damned good reason to not go out of the front door today. This is like something out of a horror film.
The story that followed it on Breakfast News was about a guy who took a 17 yr old British girl over to Brazil on the pretence of marrying her there. Her dismembered torso was found in a suitcase.

There's some crazy buggers out there!

[Joe Blow]

The saddest part is the victim was so young - somewhere there is a family completely devastated by this news

The victim was a carney and was on his way home to his fathers house before heading out on his next gig.

This is one of those things you just can't wrap your head around. I understand the political posturing and fear mongering of terrorists using this tactic, on video no less, but in a random act between unknown parties it just baffles the mind.

[Dutch]

The victim was a carney and was on his way home to his fathers house before heading out on his next gig.

This is one of those things you just can't wrap your head around. I understand the political posturing and fear mongering of terrorists using this tactic, on video no less, but in a random act between unknown parties it just baffles the mind.

That would be "fear mongering of terrorists and mexican cartel operatives" thank you. ;)

[rjamortega]

I have seen a few psychotic episodes in my life and unless you are trained to deal with them it is very hard to intervene - people underestimate how scary and threatening such a situation would be. The sheer frenzy of the attack would suggest that the attacker was psychotic, manic and dangerous as hell.
"Scary" is an understatement! I can understand why some on the bus were vomitting. Such a scene is a horror of the highest magnitude, all the more horrific because instead of a wild animal, it is a wild human. You are absolutely right the average person would be far too emotionaly overwhelmed to act against this maniac.

Now for the inevitable cry of "If someone had an open carry licence they could have shot the maniac and saved the kid"

...
They may or may not have saved the victim in time. But they certainly would have prevented the possibility of the maniac turning on someone else nearby.

As I imagine it, it is just a turn of fate that the maniac didn't have the state of mind to quickly determine when the first victim was incapacitated enough so he could attack another before they all had time to escape. In such a scenario a citizen with a gun could be of use. This is only logical. I can admit if thousands more are allowed to carry there will be that odd percentage who eventually use their legal firearm against an innocent. But that will be just as rare as those times when the guns can be used for the good of society. It comes down to how we prefer our citizens to die in the streets and in our homes.

[Joe Blow]

That would be "fear mongering of terrorists and mexican cartel operatives" thank you. ;)

Up here on the far side of the 49th we don't get much in the way of Mexican cartel operations or news.....:D

[Crosscheck]

I don't know Oli, the guy was clearly insane enough to murder a fellow passenger using a large hunting knife in public, so it would be a terribly risky intervention to attempt. I go so far as to say it would take bravery bordering on stupidity for anyone but the most highly trained to try and stop him.


It is always hard to say what one would do. But twice in my life I have jumped in when I saw a stranger being jumped on by more than one. Mind you neither had a large butcher knife in the act. There is just something in me that snaps and all of sudden I am unfront and on stage with the perpetrator. I don't even remember walking over to the scene. I was just suddently planted there and grabbing them off. Then of course I seem to wake up out of this out of body voyage and I have two angry perpetrators to deal with.

[Dutch]

Up here on the far side of the 49th we don't get much in the way of Mexican cartel operations or news.....:D

Feel lucky, I've got ms-13 grafitti five blocks from my house. There have been some problems. I don't let my wife go to some parts of town alone anymore. All this so don tyson can get richer by exploiting foreign nationals.

[rjamortega]

It is always hard to say what one would do. But twice in my life I have jumped in when I saw a stranger being jumped on by more than one. Mind you neither had a large butcher knife in the act. There is just something in me that snaps and all of sudden I am unfront and on stage with the perpetrator. I don't even remember walking over to the scene. I was just suddently planted there and grabbing them off. Then of course I seem to wake up out of this out of body voyage and I have two angry perpetrators to deal with.

Then you are experiencing something different than what may have been mentioned earlier. Your example doesn't seem to be a conscious decision. It is instincts. But others may stay in the moment and evaluate the danger level.

Me, observing an armed wild lunatic? I know I would not go in unarmed. I would figure the victim's chances aren't worth my immediately joining him. Though it would be emotionally difficult, I would search for something that would make a deadly club, sized adequately to give me the advantage (I wouldn't feel confident with a knife where I have to get close and can't swiftly break bones).
And if I couldn't get my hands quickly on that, I would just get my butt to safety where I could call police (or Crosscheck).

Now if the attacker is beating a victim, I will be more prone to take my chances going in because my dad taught me to be an animal in a street fight, even though we observe the rules in the ring. (watch me get my *** kicked):rolleyes:

[ScummyD]

Who wrote this stuff? It's hard to take seriously.

"The guy was totally calm. When he brought the head he looked at us and dropped it. It was like he was having a day at the beach. He couldn't be bothered by anything else."

Passenger Cody Olmstead from Kentville, N.S., said he had just smoked a cigarette with the victim at the last stop in Brandon. He said he believed the victim had gotten on the bus in Edmonton.

"We just left the town of Brandon and we were watching Zorro and the next thing I know I hear somebody scream and I look back and there's some big guy holding this little fellow up between the bathroom door and the seat," Mr. Olmstead told CBC News.

After passengers fled the bus and braced the door to keep the attacker inside, he returned with the victim's head, Mr. Olmstead said.

"His hand come out the door with the knife," he said. "He went back on the bus and then they [passengers] brace the door and he come back standing in the doorway with the head, looked at them, dropped the head, went back and started cutting buddy back up."

As night fell and police surrounded the bus, the suspect taunted police officers, Mr. Olmstead said.

"He comes up and he picks the head up and he's waving it in the window. I just smoked a cigarette with this man [the victim] earlier, the head, and he's shaking it back and forth at the window and it's ... intense right, it's sickening."
That's a hell of a story.

[AgentM]

Feel lucky, I've got ms-13 grafitti five blocks from my house. There have been some problems. I don't let my wife go to some parts of town alone anymore. All this so don tyson can get richer by exploiting foreign nationals.

No offence, but I'm glad I don't live where you do Dutch. I feel quite safe in Victoria. Heck, I've stumbled home through downtown after a few nights of drinking (not a few nights in a row) and had nary a glance in my direction. I could have been counting my change and nothing probably would have happened to me.

[ScummyD]

Around here is it's Mexican gangs like G 13, SUR 13, East Side and West side. A few kids have been murdered the last couple of years.

A five day Fiesta called "Old Spanish Days" just started on Wednesday. I bet some knife fights break out and somebody gets shanked. We'll be back on Tuesday with an update if not sooner.

NSWB

[USA-1]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4718_images/0801081306_M_080108_greyhound07.jpg

Not how I pictured him.

[Dutch]

Around here is it's Mexican gangs like G 13, SUR 13, East Side and West side. A few kids have been murdered the last couple of years.

A five day Fiesta called "Old Spanish Days" just started on Wednesday. I bet some knife fights break out and somebody gets shanked. We'll be back on Tuesday with an update if not sooner.

NSWB

Mexican nationals around here like their knives too. Not so long ago an illegal stabbed a guy, american, in the mouth in the local wally world. He got shot for his troubles recovered and self-deported himself after skipping bail. I don't let my wife go there by herself anymore either.

[Dutch]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4718_images/0801081306_M_080108_greyhound07.jpg

Not how I pictured him.

You expected freddy krueger perhaps? :shrug:

[Dutch]

No offence, but I'm glad I don't live where you do Dutch. I feel quite safe in Victoria. Heck, I've stumbled home through downtown after a few nights of drinking (not a few nights in a row) and had nary a glance in my direction. I could have been counting my change and nothing probably would have happened to me.

I've lived in some bad places. This isn't one of them. I love my state, my community. Screw em' I'm stayin.

[USA-1]

You expected freddy krueger perhaps? :shrug:

No, more the Jeffrey Dahmer look. Or Jim Adkisson.

[Blueangel]

You expected freddy krueger perhaps? :shrug:
Yes!
We all have a childhood image of a what a mad man looks like.
When we're actually confronted with people who are mentally ill enough to commit such horrific acts as this, it's shocking how normal they appear to look.
That's the really scary thing. We would all hope that we are able to see this in a person but it's just not the case. I would much prefer that they all walk around with a 20ft blue neon sign over their heads that says "I AM THE BOGEYMAN!"

[rjamortega]

No, more the Jeffrey Dahmer look. Or Jim Adkisson.

Caucasian WASPs only, eh?

[ScummyD]

Yes!
We all have a childhood image of a what a mad man looks like.
When we're actually confronted with people who are mentally ill enough to commit such horrific acts as this, it's shocking how normal they appear to look.
That's the really scary thing. We would all hope that we are able to see this in a person but it's just not the case. I would much prefer that they all walk around with a 20ft blue neon sign over their heads that says "I AM THE BOGEYMAN!"
As Hannah Arendt wrote, it's "The Banality of Evil."


The concept of the banality of evil came into prominence following the publication of Hannah Arendt's 1963 book Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, which was based on the trial of Adolph Eichmann in Jerusalem. Arendt's thesis was that people who carry out unspeakable crimes, like Eichmann, a top administrator in the machinery of the Nazi death camps, may not be crazy fanatics at all, but rather ordinary individuals who simply accept the premises of their state and participate in any ongoing enterprise with the energy of good bureaucrats.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7278.htm

[Dutch]

Caucasian WASPs only, eh?

Blueangel...person... has a point. It'd be damn good manners if homicidal maniacs wore some sort of day-glo, neon, sign...thing.

[USA-1]

Caucasian WASPs only, eh?

It was in Canada and when I heard the story a mental image emerged. The picture of the guy did not match my mental image of him. No big deal. Now the church shooter looked exactly like I had pictured him.

[lord tammerlain]

Caucasian WASPs only, eh?

Dont get many reports of pyschotic ethnic chinese killing people randomly in Canada or the US

Personally I was expecting either a Wasp or a native Canadian (Native Canadian only because of the location Winterpeg has a high percentage of native Canadians)

[lord tammerlain]

Mexican nationals around here like their knives too. Not so long ago an illegal stabbed a guy, american, in the mouth in the local wally world. He got shot for his troubles recovered and self-deported himself after skipping bail. I don't let my wife go there by herself anymore either.

Violent gangs in Calgary generally are Vietnamese and or Chinese.

3-4 shootings ( and a couple of deaths have taken place within a couple miles of where I live.

They are at least professional about it and target only other gangs. None of them control the streets like gangs seem to do in the US

[Dutch]

Violent gangs in Calgary generally are Vietnamese and or Chinese.

3-4 shootings ( and a couple of deaths have taken place within a couple miles of where I live.

They are at least professional about it and target only other gangs. None of them control the streets like gangs seem to do in the US

Please explain this sentence. :confused:

[lord tammerlain]

Mexican nationals around here like their knives too. Not so long ago an illegal stabbed a guy, american, in the mouth in the local wally world. He got shot for his troubles recovered and self-deported himself after skipping bail. I don't let my wife go there by herself anymore either.

Please explain this sentence. :confused:

If I am not mistaken there are areas in many US cities where people who live outside that area do not travel because of the threat of gang related violence. Your MS 13 for example or in the past the Crips and Bloods of LA.

In Calgary there is no gang that controls an area. They live and do their particular jobs throught the city. Their violence is generally directed towards rival gangs. The gun related violence in Calgary has almost all been due to Vietnamese/Chinese gangs going after each other, in many parts of the city

[Dutch]

If I am not mistaken there are areas in many US cities where people who live outside that area do not travel because of the threat of gang related violence. Your MS 13 for example or in the past the Crips and Bloods of LA.

In Calgary there is no gang that controls an area. They live and do their particular jobs throught the city. Their violence is generally directed towards rival gangs. The gun related violence in Calgary has almost all been due to Vietnamese/Chinese gangs going after each other, in many parts of the city

I thought you were refering to no-go areas for police like france. Yes, you are quite correct there are high-crime areas where many of us don't go. In respects to latino gangs there have been reports of them targeting black "civilians" in an effort to run them out of certain neighborhoods in la.

[steveksux]

It always amazes me what people will allow to happen right in front of them. You hear stories of women being raped in the presence of witnesses, none of whom lift a finger. This took place on a crowded bus and it seems noone thought to try to stop him. The psychology of these situations is hard to understand.
Not hard to understand at all, not in Canada. Crazy guy murders someone with a knife. you're unarmed. You intervene. You're next.

Now in the states, where you are allowed to possess the means to defend yourself from deadly attacks, if that happens in front of me, someone's going to owe me some ammunition.

Randy

[AgentM]

Not hard to understand at all, not in Canada. Crazy guy murders someone with a knife. you're unarmed. You intervene. You're next.

Now in the states, where you are allowed to possess the means to defend yourself from deadly attacks, if that happens in front of me, someone's going to owe me some ammunition.

Randy

That's all fine and dandy in theory, except the vast majority of the people on the bus didn't know what was going on until it was too late anyways. The most you could have done would be to have shot him after the fact.

[AgentM]

The man accused of stabbing a young Winnipeg man aboard a Greyhound bus delivered newspapers for several Edmonton publications and had worked at McDonald's, according to one of his employers.

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, worked for a contractor delivering the Edmonton Journal, the National Post and the Edmonton Sun, his boss Vincent Augert told CBC News Friday.

"I'm still kind of shocked and surprised, to be honest with you. He just never came across as the type of person that could do something like that. He was a nice guy," Augert said.

"He was there every day, he did a good job, was friendly and really, we had no problems with this individual at all."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/01/stabbing-victim.html
--

This makes you wonder if this psychopath was just repressing his mental issues over time, or if he just snapped one day. I guess we'll likely never know.

[Jarlaxle]

I don't know Oli, the guy was clearly insane enough to murder a fellow passenger using a large hunting knife in public, so it would be a terribly risky intervention to attempt. I go so far as to say it would take bravery bordering on stupidity for anyone but the most highly trained to try and stop him.

Yep. My uncle would have done something, probably simply pushing his pistol against the seat & firing once (absolutely 100% guaranteed first-shot kill). I quite likely would have done the same (except firing twice with my smaller-caliber pistol). My wife, who fears NOTHING, would have almost certainly attacked him physically. I give her about a 95% chance of getting the knife away from him.

[mtm1963]

and we have this now.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080802/D92AF3M80.html

mtm1963

[Dutch]

The man accused of stabbing a young Winnipeg man aboard a Greyhound bus delivered newspapers for several Edmonton publications and had worked at McDonald's, according to one of his employers.

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, worked for a contractor delivering the Edmonton Journal, the National Post and the Edmonton Sun, his boss Vincent Augert told CBC News Friday.

"I'm still kind of shocked and surprised, to be honest with you. He just never came across as the type of person that could do something like that. He was a nice guy," Augert said.

"He was there every day, he did a good job, was friendly and really, we had no problems with this individual at all."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/01/stabbing-victim.html
--

This makes you wonder if this psychopath was just repressing his mental issues over time, or if he just snapped one day. I guess we'll likely never know.

I read the article but found myself fascinated by the comments. I'm assuming these are mostly canadians. You guys are just as divided as us. BTW what are the chances this obviously mentally ill man will ever serve prison time?

[Dutch]

Yep. My uncle would have done something, probably simply pushing his pistol against the seat & firing once (absolutely 100% guaranteed first-shot kill). I quite likely would have done the same (except firing twice with my smaller-caliber pistol). My wife, who fears NOTHING, would have almost certainly attacked him physically. I give her about a 95% chance of getting the knife away from him.

No amount of interference by the other passangers could have save that young man from death. Getting off that bus in one piece was a reasonable objective.

[overmedicated]

and we have this now.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080802/D92AF3M80.html

mtm1963

Yes it seems we have a new type crime similar to rape-murder, except this guy kills them before he rapes them, and instead of raping people he eats them. Interesting.

[Joe Blow]

I read the article but found myself fascinated by the comments. I'm assuming these are mostly canadians. You guys are just as divided as us. BTW what are the chances this obviously mentally ill man will ever serve prison time?

It would all depend on what his upcoming psych eval discovers. He may be found not fit for trial at which point he would spend the rest of his days in a lock down psych ward. Otherwise prison time is pretty much a given. 2nd degree murder carries life in prison with first chance of parole at 15 years. If the federal government sought to have him declared a 'dangerous offender' (an actual classification in our justice system) then his parole eligibility would be revoked and he would be a true 'lifer'.

[Dutch]

It would all depend on what his upcoming psych eval discovers. He may be found not fit for trial at which point he would spend the rest of his days in a lock down psych ward. Otherwise prison time is pretty much a given. 2nd degree murder carries life in prison with first chance of parole at 15 years. If the federal government sought to have him declared a 'dangerous offender' (an actual classification in our justice system) then his parole eligibility would be revoked and he would be a true 'lifer'.

Tell me, why 2nd degree murder? Why not 1st?

[Joe Blow]

Tell me, why 2nd degree murder? Why not 1st?

1st is reserved for pre-meditation which does not appear to be the case in this instance.

[Dutch]

1st is reserved for pre-meditation which does not appear to be the case in this instance.

So, once this man is judged mentally incompetent what are the chances he'll ever be free again.

[lord tammerlain]

So, once this man is judged mentally incompetent what are the chances he'll ever be free again.

Depends on his mental condition and whether they feel he would be likely be a danger to society.

If he is "cured" and deemed not a threat to society he would be set free. Pretty much the same situation I believe the US would have regarding those judged to be mentally incompetent

[USA-1]

Depends on his mental condition and whether they feel he would be likely be a danger to society.

If he is "cured" and deemed not a threat to society he would be set free. Pretty much the same situation I believe the US would have regarding those judged to be mentally incompetent

I doubt if this guy will ever get out. No doctor would sign off on him for if he went berserk again the doctor would be crucified. When someone committs a horrific act like this there is no cure. He clearly is insane.

What I never understood was Dahmer was clearly insane yet he stood trial, was found guilty and went to prison. How can anyone that commits crimes like these not be insane?

[Dutch]

I doubt if this guy will ever get out. No doctor would sign off on him for if he went berserk again the doctor would be crucified. When someone committs a horrific act like this there is no cure. He clearly is insane.

What I never understood was Dahmer was clearly insane yet he stood trial, was found guilty and went to prison. How can anyone that commits crimes like these not be insane?

I've often wondered that myself. In dahmer's case I'm guessing the jury wanted revenge.

[lord tammerlain]

I doubt if this guy will ever get out. No doctor would sign off on him for if he went berserk again the doctor would be crucified. When someone committs a horrific act like this there is no cure. He clearly is insane.

What I never understood was Dahmer was clearly insane yet he stood trial, was found guilty and went to prison. How can anyone that commits crimes like these not be insane?

Dahmer may have been insane, but he understood that his actions were illegal. He covered them up as to avoid punishment.

I believe for insanity to be a plea is that the person at the time of the crime did not believe or understand the action was illegal or wrong.

So a person hearing voices to kill his next door neigbour because they are deamons, kills them and does not hide the fact but is open about it I believe can be classed as legally insane and not be guilty of murder ( locked up in a mental ward for sure)

But a sociopath who kills and knows it is wrong and hides it is not legally insane as knows that it is a crime

[USA-1]

For those that question their own sanity, I found this simple insanity test:
http://www.ratedo.com/articles/insanitytest/

[Heads_On_Pikes]

For those that question their own sanity, I found this simple insanity test:
http://www.ratedo.com/articles/insanitytest/

:lol: That has been around awhile.

A couple quick observations based on what I have read of this horrific murder:

I do not think an armed citizen (trained or not) could have saved the young mans life without also hitting innocent, fleeing passengers. After a few quick slashes or stabs into the victims throat -- that part of the ordeal was over.

The passengers did very well under the circumstances to save themselves and possibly family IMHO.

[serenity]

I agree. A very sudden and shocking and highly confusing development, in a closed space, with a person behaving in a way no one expects. I can't blame any of the passengers.

[Eddie]

For those that question their own sanity, I found this simple insanity test:
http://www.ratedo.com/articles/insanitytest/

Hehe. I didn`t even have to turn on the spearkers. I`ve seen the test before and immidiatly started laughing at the thought of the sound.

[steveksux]

That's all fine and dandy in theory, except the vast majority of the people on the bus didn't know what was going on until it was too late anyways. Very possible, but not always. Depends on how big the knife is, how skilled the attacker, how close they are to me. The most you could have done would be to have shot him after the fact.You say this almost like it is a bad thing? I should not shoot him off the guy because it might be too late? I'm more of a glass half full kind of optimist. I prefer to try to stop the guy just in case it is NOT too late.

Randy

[lord tammerlain]

Very possible, but not always. Depends on how big the knife is, how skilled the attacker, how close they are to me. You say this almost like it is a bad thing? I should not shoot him off the guy because it might be too late? I'm more of a glass half full kind of optimist. I prefer to try to stop the guy just in case it is NOT too late.

Randy

Given the number of times we have seen trained Police officers panic and miss their target in stressfull situation ( and backed up by Eugene) having untrained people firing a gun on a bus full of people just might not be the best idea.

Imagine the chaos, someone sees a person getting stabbed, pulls out his gun and starts firing, another person who missed the stabbing pulls out his gun and starts to shoot at the first shooter. Soon everyone on the bus is shooting at everyone else (an exageration of course)

[Dutch]

Given the number of times we have seen trained Police officers panic and miss their target in stressfull situation ( and backed up by Eugene) having untrained people firing a gun on a bus full of people just might not be the best idea.

Imagine the chaos, someone sees a person getting stabbed, pulls out his gun and starts firing, another person who missed the stabbing pulls out his gun and starts to shoot at the first shooter. Soon everyone on the bus is shooting at everyone else (an exageration of course)

According to the law as it's written in my state I don't have the right to shoot someone commiting an illegal act. I only have the right to defend myself. In other words that guy on the bus would have to kill that mclean guy and then try to kill me. Considering the fact the bus was full I'd be hard for me to justify shooting anyone as bullets do have a way of entering and exiting people.

[USA-1]

According to the law as it's written in my state I don't have the right to shoot someone commiting an illegal act. I only have the right to defend myself. In other words that guy on the bus would have to kill that mclean guy and then try to kill me. Considering the fact the bus was full I'd be hard for me to justify shooting anyone as bullets do have a way of entering and exiting people.

If I had a handgun and saw the man being stabbed repeatedly, I would make sure of my target and proceed to kill the maniac. Public opinion would make sure I never spent any time in jail. I really don't think I would have any problem killing that guy.

[Jarlaxle]

No amount of interference by the other passangers could have save that young man from death. Getting off that bus in one piece was a reasonable objective.

And shooting the lunatic dead would accomplish that nicely (albeit very messily), as well as guarantee the safety of everyone else on the bus.

[lord tammerlain]

And shooting the lunatic dead would accomplish that nicely (albeit very messily), as well as guarantee the safety of everyone else on the bus.

Provided it was the lunatic that was hit and not the other passengers, provided the other passengers did not have guns as well and reacted to gunfire by shooting back. Turning what was one person dead to multiple accidental deaths

[Jarlaxle]

Press pistol muzzle firmly against the seatback (as I posted) before shooting: guaranteed hit, essentially a guaranteed one-shot kill.

Bonus: it might keep everyone's eardrums intact (then again, it may not).

[AgentM]

Press pistol muzzle firmly against the seatback (as I posted) before shooting: guaranteed hit, essentially a guaranteed one-shot kill.

Bonus: it might keep everyone's eardrums intact (then again, it may not).

You're assuming you could get behind the seat without the psycho noticing you. Quite the assumption, unless you just happened to be sitting there, and happened to have a gun within easy reach.

[steveksux]

Given the number of times we have seen trained Police officers panic and miss their target in stressfull situation ( and backed up by Eugene) having untrained people firing a gun on a bus full of people just might not be the best idea.

Imagine the chaos, someone sees a person getting stabbed, pulls out his gun and starts firing, another person who missed the stabbing pulls out his gun and starts to shoot at the first shooter. Soon everyone on the bus is shooting at everyone else (an exageration of course)
Odds are highly against anyone being armed at the right place at the right time to be in a position to stop the original assailant, let alone a second person being armed and in a position to mistakenly take out the person who took out the original assailant, and I'd be yelling at the top of my lungs "DROP THE KNIFE OR I'LL SHOOT... CALL 911" so I don't look like a bad guy...

But you are correct, that situation could get very messy if that were to come about. If you weren't directly in the next row, fleeing passengers would likely be in the way and prevent a clear shot also. Its a pretty hypothetical hypothetical situation no matter how you slice it...

Randy

[steveksux]

You're assuming you could get behind the seat without the psycho noticing you. Quite the assumption, unless you just happened to be sitting therevery unlikely , and happened to have a gun within easy reach.very likely

Randy