Body proves Bigfoot no myth, hunters say

[ScummyD]

(CNN) -- A policeman and a former corrections officer say that on Friday they will unveil evidence of what they claim is their biggest find ever: the body of Bigfoot.

Matthew Whitton and Rick Dyer, a pair of Bigfoot-hunting hobbyists from north Georgia, say they found the creature's body in a wooded area and spotted several similar creatures that were still alive.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/14/bigfoot.body/index.html)


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/US/08/14/bigfoot.body/art.thawedcreature.cnn.jpg

[Crosscheck]

http://www.jumperlumps.com/elements/1/images/products/THUMBNAIL/699/hook-line-sinker.gif


Sounds like another great National Enquirer cover story.

[NiteGuy]

Yeah, I hear Elvis is still alive, too. :D

[AgentM]

Aren't these the guys that supposedly couldnt produce the body because they'd left it in the care of someone else? Mighty convenient.

[eugene40]

Aren't these the guys that supposedly couldnt produce the body because they'd left it in the care of someone else? Mighty convenient.

Yes that would be the Quack in Northern California that has a little shop dedicated to bigfoot. Since you know, bigfoot sightings are prevalent in northern Cali, Oregon, Washington and Idaho. I can honestly say I have never heard of any sightings in Georgia.

One would think instead of leaving it with a quack doctor. if you would want to prove that you found something like this. I don't know, you would take it to an accredited and reputable anthropologist or zoologist, or hell a cryptozoologist. Not some moron in a shack in northern cali. But hey whatever.

[AgentM]

One would think instead of leaving it with a quack doctor. if you would want to prove that you found something like this. I don't know, you would take it to an accredited and reputable anthropologist or zoologist, or hell a cryptozoologist. Not some moron in a shack in northern cali. But hey whatever.

Yeah, no kidding. That's what I would do.

[ScummyD]

WHat I don't understand is why these two guys would work up all this hype about this and then not prove their case by letting people see their find. THere is no need for testing DNA or otherwise, I would think. It seems to me that any rational person could tell what the hell the thing is just by having a close look at it.

And so why work up all this hype only to later be exposed as a liar? That's not to say that I think they are telling the truth, but if for publicity, how long would all the attention do them good when it ultimately comes out that they are a bunch of liars???

I just wonder what good they see in all of this.

ANd, so far I have not seen anybody swallow this story hook, line, and sinker so I really have no clue where that came from.

[Soren]

Yeah, I hear Elvis is still alive, too. :DAnd living in Argentina with Hitler, too!

[Riddley]

And living in Argentina with Hitler, too!

Er sorry Soren, he's on the ranch in Hawaii, with Marilyn Monroe and JFK.

As to why they have done it. 15 minutes of fame, I guess.

[AgentM]

Er sorry Soren, he's on the ranch in Hawaii, with Marilyn Monroe and JFK.

As to why they have done it. 15 minutes of fame, I guess.

Haven't you heard? Hitler's soul has possessed our buddy Vlad over in Russia. At least if you believe MM. :D

[ScummyD]

As to why they have done it. 15 minutes of fame, I guess.

Yeah, but are that short sighted that they desire the 15 minutes of fame and a subsequent lifetime of ridicule?

[steveksux]

Yeah, but are that short sighted that they desire the 15 minutes of fame and a subsequent lifetime of ridicule?
http://www.jerryspringertv.com/Why would an otherwise seemingly rational guy like you think other people think rationally? :sorry: :lol: :p ;)

Randy

[Demon of Light]

Isn't it possible they're not lying? I imagine when they really do find Bigfoot's body, no one will believe them initially, call them liars, hoaxers, fameseekers, and throw all sorts of vile at them. Some people just get close-minded about this stuff.

[AgentM]

Isn't it possible they're not lying? I imagine when they really do find Bigfoot's body, no one will believe them initially, call them liars, hoaxers, fameseekers, and throw all sorts of vile at them. Some people just get close-minded about this stuff.

They just don't seem to have done the rational thing that someone with an actual Bigfoot body would have done.

[USA-1]

This will be fairly easy to verify. Might as well wait and see.

[bowerbird]

It wasn't bigfoot - it was a family of Yowies on holiday from Australia:D
http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/yowie.jpg

[NiteGuy]

Yeah, but are that short sighted that they desire the 15 minutes of fame and a subsequent lifetime of ridicule?

Oh, c'mon Scummy!

You remember the Raelians, or whoever a few years back don't you? A UFO/Cloning "religion" that claimed a woman had cloned her own "child", and that we'd soon be visited by extra-terrestrials? Believe it or not, after being thoroughly discredited, they are still a going concern as a "religion".

Folks like these don't care about the humiliation part of it. For them, it's all about the ink. Put out a press release, get an interview in the papers, anything to see your name in print, or get on some talk show. For a day or so, most news outlets will report this stuff "straight up". It's only a few days later when your claims are shown to be bogus that the humiliation begins.

And after all, the humiliation part goes away in a few weeks or months. People move on to the next incredible story, or juicy scandal. A few more years down the road though, and you've got proof for your new scamees, er, uh, "converts" that you were a big somebody in the "movement".

I mean, it must be true. There he is on AC360, Larry King and ABC! There's his picture in the Chicago Tribune, the NY Times, and Wall Street Journal! All legitimate outlets, which of course is needed to keep the money flowing.

Hell, the converts want to believe anyway, so you can either ignore the later stories that heap scorn on your claims, and not bother to present them. Or, when discovered, just tell everyone that it was a coverup by the Government, the Church, the Garden Gnomes, or whoever.

These guys just found a new way to ensure donations (and thier mortgage payments) from the "faithful" for the next 10 years.

[Heads_On_Pikes]

I am the only true Bigfoot posting on the internet.

All PM'ed offers of compensation for interviews will be considered. :flowers:

[NiteGuy]

I am the only true Bigfoot posting on the internet.

All PM'ed offers of compensation for interviews will be considered. :flowers:

A size 16 shoe does not a Bigfoot make... :D

[Alvin T. Grey]

One would think instead of leaving it with a quack doctor. if you would want to prove that you found something like this. I don't know, you would take it to an accredited and reputable anthropologist or zoologist, or hell a cryptozoologist. Not some moron in a shack in northern cali. But hey whatever.
Straight on ice, and FedEx it to the Smithsonian.
Then cash in on the book, lecture and eventual movie staring Nicolas Cage as me. And Angelina Jolie as.....well who cares?:D

[Riddley]

Yoy'd be played by Andrew Sacchs, Alvin (he's from Barcelona) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DngrgIpS0)

[Alvin T. Grey]

I know nooothing about de Biga-fut.

BTW am I the only one suddenly curious about whether they taste like chicken or not?

[AgentM]

Yoy'd be played by Andrew Sacchs, Alvin (he's from Barcelona) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DngrgIpS0)

Haha, ouch! :lol:

[eugene40]

WHat I don't understand is why these two guys would work up all this hype about this and then not prove their case by letting people see their find. THere is no need for testing DNA or otherwise, I would think. It seems to me that any rational person could tell what the hell the thing is just by having a close look at it.

And so why work up all this hype only to later be exposed as a liar? That's not to say that I think they are telling the truth, but if for publicity, how long would all the attention do them good when it ultimately comes out that they are a bunch of liars???

I just wonder what good they see in all of this.

ANd, so far I have not seen anybody swallow this story hook, line, and sinker so I really have no clue where that came from.

A while ago, I think when I was still in High School. There was that video of the Alien Autopsy that was proved to be faked. Now they not only lied, they put production behind it to help facilitate that lie.

[ScummyD]

I guess I am expecting other people to adhere to the same reasoning I subscribe to myself and thus get some what confused when idiots don't act reasonably.

[eugene40]

I guess I am expecting other people to adhere to the same reasoning I subscribe to myself and thus get some what confused when idiots don't act reasonably.

Can one ever really understand why any of these people do the things that they do. Pseudo science, cryptozoology and hell even para psychology are million dollar industries. People write books on how they had their near death experience, or on their abduction and constant poking and prodding by aliens. There are books and videos about the lochness monster, the chupacabra and all kinds of other things.

I saw these two guys interviewed yesterday and one of them said that they couldn't wait to cash in on this. But what I saw was two men sitting there calm and reasoned talking about this. There eyes were doing the usual physiological responses that happen when people lie. Up and to the right, not focusing on the camera, focusing too long. etc. Now I won't hold that into account because I wasn't there and I wasn't interviewing them. However, the thing that I noticed most of all was there complete and utter lack of enthusiasm. Now if you had virtually found the missing link, Bigfoot, the man the myth the legend. Sought after by anthropologists the world over. Don't you think there would be some left over excitement in retelling the story. How you came upon it, the way it smelled, the adrenaline rush when you checked it for vitals or nudged it with you gun. I mean vivid freaking details. There were none. And to me that indicates lying.

I hope they are not. I think it could be the greatest anthropological find of the last two centuries. But for me I am a cynic. I have hiked and stalked and blazed trails from Santa Rosa, CA to Blaine Washington. Prime Sasquatch hunting ground. And I have never seen anything other than a bunch of bares and dozen or so coyotes and other various creatures. Never have I seen a print or anything to indicate that there is anything like this. However, if true. Would be really cool. It would be like you or I surfing a break and stumbling upon a mermaid.

[Mirror Lake 444]

DNA results:

First sample: human
Second sample: opposum
Third sample: Not a good sample no determination made.

[ScummyD]

I lived in Santa Rosa for a year. Not a bad town. Good mushroom picking area.

[eugene40]

I lived in Santa Rosa for a year. Not a bad town. Good mushroom picking area.

I enjoy it whenever I am there. Almost took a job to be a cop there. Not a bad place, kind of warm. But a good drive to Bodega Bay, decent breaks there. Always a fun time.

[ScummyD]

I enjoy it whenever I am there. Almost took a job to be a cop there. Not a bad place, kind of warm. But a good drive to Bodega Bay, decent breaks there. Always a fun time.

Yeah, I went to Bodega Bay a lot when I was there. And Limantour Beach. Limantour was freakin' awesome.

[Soren]

I enjoy it whenever I am there. Almost took a job to be a cop there. Not a bad place, kind of warm. But a good drive to Bodega Bay, decent breaks there. Always a fun time.You'd better watch out for The Birds.;)

[eugene40]

Yeah, I went to Bodega Bay a lot when I was there. And Limantour Beach. Limantour was freakin' awesome.

Yea I liked there and drakes as well.

[NiteGuy]

I guess I am expecting other people to adhere to the same reasoning I subscribe to myself and thus get some what confused when idiots don't act reasonably.

Make no mistake about it ScummyD, these are not unreasoning idiots. They're con men, pure and simple.

[ScummyD]

Make no mistake about it ScummyD, these are not unreasoning idiots. They're con men, pure and simple.
I would say that if they are not unreasoning idiots they would have their focus on long-term, steady benefit. Now unless they can extract some sort of reward or payment from a mass or morons well into the future after being proven liars I don't see the reason.

It would be better to continue their antics in ways that are never quite able to be dismissed.

But there are a "1000 more fools being born every freakin day." So maybe they will be able to reep benefits for more than 15 minutes.

I just don't see it.

[Demon of Light]

I think the DNA testing to some extent indicates they probably aren't lying. I mean, if you're gonna fake it what they did was hardly logical. People keep commenting on the photos but I don't think you can take photos of a corpse that has been in a freezer and make a good scientific argument based solely on that.

I'd like it if this was real as it would provide the bullet-proof confirmation I've been waiting for on this, but I am skeptical for now.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if we do find a body as there is a substantial body of evidence (http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=ecffe437-0745-40db-8a1d-5d5dd974760f) suggesting there really is such a creature out there.

[ScummyD]

Does anybody have anything to say on how a bigfoot might be able to elude human captors for so long?

Could they really avoid contact as well as they have, assuming they are real, when confronted with 300 million beings that have done things like walk on the moon???

[AgentM]

Does anybody have anything to say on how a bigfoot might be able to elude human captors for so long?

Could they really avoid contact as well as they have, assuming they are real, when confronted with 300 million beings that have done things like walk on the moon???

Personally I don't think it's such a stretch. There's immense forests where humans rarely if ever tread, and it's difficult to see through trees in aircraft or with satellites. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not writing off the Sasquatch personally.

[ScummyD]

I don't put much out of the realm of possibility, but it just seems so highly unlikely. Then again I guees space travel did at one time, too.

I have another question which I would really like to know out of interest. What is said of bigfoot in Native American culture? Despite a fair amount of study I can't ever recall reading anything on it.

[eugene40]

Does anybody have anything to say on how a bigfoot might be able to elude human captors for so long?

Could they really avoid contact as well as they have, assuming they are real, when confronted with 300 million beings that have done things like walk on the moon???

I have been places In the forests of Oregon and Washington where I had to blaze trails and it was obvious that no one else had ever been there. There are thousands if not millions of acres between you and I that have never had human feet cross them. However if there are such things, like predators and animals that are being forced out of their habitat they have been seen in suburban areas. One could foresee if there is something out there like this it is only a matter of time before it is seen. But again, I have never heard of any sightings in Georgia.

[ScummyD]

I have been places In the forests of Oregon and Washington where I had to blaze trails and it was obvious that no one else had ever been there. There are thousands if not millions of acres between you and I that have never had human feet cross them. However if there are such things, like predators and animals that are being forced out of their habitat they have been seen in suburban areas. One could foresee if there is something out there like this it is only a matter of time before it is seen. But again, I have never heard of any sightings in Georgia.
If there is such virgin land remaining, why are there not more new, previously undiscovered species being found?

[Demon of Light]

I have another question which I would really like to know out of interest. What is said of bigfoot in Native American culture? Despite a fair amount of study I can't ever recall reading anything on it.

Where do you think the term Sasquatch comes from? There are various Native American cultures which mention a man-like ape wandering the forests.

As I said, there's a lot of evidence suggesting Bigfoot does exist. The footprints taken one-by-one may not seem convincing but there are thousands of such footprints which have been analyzed by experts who found convincing reasons to believe they are not merely hoaxes. In fact, if the entire body of evidence for Bigfoot was really all hoaxed that would be the more remarkable find.

It would mean there's a massive global organization of highly-qualified experts that have been perpetuating a hoax for the past few centuries. Compared to that a species of man-like apes seems highly probable.

I have been places In the forests of Oregon and Washington where I had to blaze trails and it was obvious that no one else had ever been there. There are thousands if not millions of acres between you and I that have never had human feet cross them. However if there are such things, like predators and animals that are being forced out of their habitat they have been seen in suburban areas. One could foresee if there is something out there like this it is only a matter of time before it is seen. But again, I have never heard of any sightings in Georgia.

While that may seem like a good argument I think you have to consider the fact these are creatures which, if they exist, are the closest genetic relatives of modern man and quite possibly the second-most intelligent life-form on the planet. I have no doubt they could elude capture for some time. Of course, they can't elude it if they're dead so finding a body is more likely then finding a live one right now. However, such a find would be exactly what's needed to get the scientific establishment to stop its cynicism and actually research the subject.

[ScummyD]

Where do you think the term Sasquatch comes from?
I don't know; never looked it up.

There are various Native American cultures which mention a man-like ape wandering the forests.
Can you point me in the direction where I might get a better understanding of this?

As I said, there's a lot of evidence suggesting Bigfoot does exist.
You linked to a short article from one scholar that mentions he saw a foot print he could not explain and had a stone thrown at him while hiking in the woods.

That doesn't sound like "there's a lot of evidence. . ."

[eugene40]

If there is such virgin land remaining, why are there not more new, previously undiscovered species being found?

Well, there very well maybe be. We are still finding new species of spiders. Fish that have been thought extinct. The difference between this and forest animals is that we are limited in the depths we can go down into the ocean. With forests, species are specific and common and more readily seen not only in the deep forest but towards populated areas. Whereas with fish the can be specific to depth. Hell wasn't there a bird recently found within the last year that was considered to be extinct. We lack when it comes to the outdoors.

Also the thing with the forest, even the best of us are tall lumbering stumbling bipedal clumsies. Most when they get into the deep forest can't wait to whip out their machete and start hacking away a path. We are loud, we stink and our eyesight as far as mammals go is crappy. It would be a safe statement to say that anything worth finding would hear, see or smell us and be quickly and quietly long gone before we would stumble upon them. Also you have the nocturnal animals to think of. Many forest animals are nocturnal and or see infinitely better then we do. And when we are out in the forests we light fires to keep things away from us as night

[AgentM]

It would be a safe statement to say that anything worth finding would hear, see or smell us and be quickly and quietly long gone before we would stumble upon them.

Yep, I've heard that if you see a cougar, for instance, it's only because the cougar doesn't care if you see it (and hence it might be time to become a little concerned).

[ScummyD]

Well after a rough start full of mocking and ridicule we seem to have an interesting discussion going here.

Well, there very well maybe be. We are still finding new species of spiders. Fish that have been thought extinct.
Yeah, but come on, what about the size difference. I don't doubt that there may be all sorts of small creatures yet unfound, but a 500 pounder??? And I'm talking specifically about the forests of American.

I'd love it if it was true, but I just don't see it.

Hell wasn't there a bird recently found within the last year that was considered to be extinct.
Yeah, I think you're right. I vaguely remember something like that.

Also the thing with the forest, even the best of us are tall lumbering stumbling bipedal clumsies. Most when they get into the deep forest can't wait to whip out their machete and start hacking away a path. We are loud, we stink and our eyesight as far as mammals go is crappy. It would be a safe statement to say that anything worth finding would hear, see or smell us and be quickly and quietly long gone before we would stumble upon them. Also you have the nocturnal animals to think of. Many forest animals are nocturnal and or see infinitely better then we do. And when we are out in the forests we light fires to keep things away from us as night
I have thought of all that before and the smell/scent issue seems the most likely deterrent. But that is just rank opinion with no basis but my own thoughts on the matter.

[eugene40]

Where do you think the term Sasquatch comes from? There are various Native American cultures which mention a man-like ape wandering the forests.
Many tribes also believe in werewolves.

As I said, there's a lot of evidence suggesting Bigfoot does exist. The footprints taken one-by-one may not seem convincing but there are thousands of such footprints which have been analyzed by experts who found convincing reasons to believe they are not merely hoaxes. In fact, if the entire body of evidence for Bigfoot was really all hoaxed that would be the more remarkable find.
There are just as many people that come out and say that they purposely hoaxed people. There was one guy in lewis county that did it for years to keep trespassers of his land. It wasn't revealed until he died and his son brought forth all of his fake bigfeet. The famous tape has been disproved and debunked I don't know how many times. This like cropcircles and the like can easily be faked given a person that has the time and imagination.

It would mean there's a massive global organization of highly-qualified experts that have been perpetuating a hoax for the past few centuries. Compared to that a species of man-like apes seems highly probable.
Not necessarily, professionals in a number of fields get excitable and let their emotions dictate their actions instead of being obejctive.



While that may seem like a good argument I think you have to consider the fact these are creatures which, if they exist, are the closest genetic relatives of modern man and quite possibly the second-most intelligent life-form on the planet. I have no doubt they could elude capture for some time. Of course, they can't elude it if they're dead so finding a body is more likely then finding a live one right now. However, such a find would be exactly what's needed to get the scientific establishment to stop its cynicism and actually research the subject.
I addressed this in my post to SD. Frankly as I said above, even the best of us outdoors are nothing compared to the animals that live there. I also would love for this to be true and for research to go into this, As I stated in previous posts. Anthropologically it would be the greatest find in a century maybe two.

[AgentM]

As I stated in previous posts. Anthropologically it would be the greatest find in a century maybe two.

Hell, biggest find ever.

[Demon of Light]

I don't know; never looked it up.

It's a Native American term for Bigfoot.

Can you point me in the direction where I might get a better understanding of this?

This is the best I could find with a quick search:

http://www.ghostsandcritters.com/strangecritters.html

http://www.bfro.net/legends/

While some may seem more spiritual it could just be a typical example of superstition trivializing real creatures. But I can tell you the stories are not a modern phenomena. I live in a rural area of Missouri and there were reports of a man-like ape here, I believe early in the 1800's.

You linked to a short article from one scholar that mentions he saw a foot print he could not explain and had a stone thrown at him while hiking in the woods.

That doesn't sound like "there's a lot of evidence. . ."

I think you're misrepresenting what was said and maybe not really paying attention to what was said:

He said such evidence as many footprints and digitally enhanced versions of the grainy Patterson film shot in 1967 of a female Sasquatch show anatomical details that are difficult to fake.

"The amassed evidence of the footprints is strong evidence that there is a real animal that exhibits a consistent anatomy that is distinct from human anatomy and yet shows adaptations that are very elegantly suited to the habitat where they are reported to exist," Meldrum elaborated after his presentation.

This particular individual was discussing his personal experience but is noting wider research and evidence, though not getting into specifics. I watched a Discovery Channel special that really went into the Patterson film and the stuff it shows is remarkable. If those guys had faked it they did a really good job at it. There have also been intense studies of the many footprints showing most appear to vary according to what would be expected in nature rather than in a hoax, and that they show convincing signs of being natural footprints.

From the stuff I've looked up it seems the evidence points to Canada being the main area where they would live and there's plenty of forest up there to run around in and not get caught.

Also, while you dismiss personal anecdotes the number of sightings and the details related in them are hard to dismiss entirely. Some of them, for instance, clearly include ape-like behavior such as wood-knocking that a regular joe would not really know about. It's a little much to claim it's all lies and fakery.

[ScummyD]

It's a Native American term for Bigfoot.



This is the best I could find with a quick search:

http://www.ghostsandcritters.com/strangecritters.html

http://www.bfro.net/legends/

While some may seem more spiritual it could just be a typical example of superstition trivializing real creatures. But I can tell you the stories are not a modern phenomena. I live in a rural area of Missouri and there were reports of a man-like ape here, I believe early in the 1800's.



I think you're misrepresenting what was said and maybe not really paying attention to what was said:



This particular individual was discussing his personal experience but is noting wider research and evidence, though not getting into specifics. I watched a Discovery Channel special that really went into the Patterson film and the stuff it shows is remarkable. If those guys had faked it they did a really good job at it. There have also been intense studies of the many footprints showing most appear to vary according to what would be expected in nature rather than in a hoax, and that they show convincing signs of being natural footprints.

From the stuff I've looked up it seems the evidence points to Canada being the main area where they would live and there's plenty of forest up there to run around in and not get caught.

Also, while you dismiss personal anecdotes the number of sightings and the details related in them are hard to dismiss entirely. Some of them, for instance, clearly include ape-like behavior such as wood-knocking that a regular joe would not really know about. It's a little much to claim it's all lies and fakery.
Thanks for looking. I don't know what to think, really. I have to remain skeptical, but I also don't think I can dismiss it all outright.

[eugene40]

Hell, biggest find ever.

I am not sure, the discovery of Lucy in what was it 74 would be bigger I think. Because that would mean we split into two. Into Homo Sapiens and whatever they would deem this.

[AgentM]

I am not sure, the discovery of Lucy in what was it 74 would be bigger I think. Because that would mean we split into two. Into Homo Sapiens and whatever they would deem this.

That's true, I'd forgotten about that.

[Demon of Light]

Many tribes also believe in werewolves.

True, but there aren't many werewolf sightings or werewolf prints now are there?

There are just as many people that come out and say that they purposely hoaxed people. There was one guy in lewis county that did it for years to keep trespassers of his land. It wasn't revealed until he died and his son brought forth all of his fake bigfeet.

While that sounds interesting they've also been found in places people usually don't go. I don't know if you can really go and claim they're all hoaxes. That seems unreasonable given the number of them out there and the widespread nature of it.

The famous tape has been disproved and debunked I don't know how many times.

I don't think I've seen anything suggesting the Patterson film has truly been "debunked" or disproved. The claims generally focus on whether it is possible for a human in a suit to carry out the actions and there is some dispute on that.

This like cropcircles and the like can easily be faked given a person that has the time and imagination.

Crop circles are much simpler, though. I could probably do it with a little training. I could not, however, reproduce that film with a little training. People who are much better-trained at it have a hard time.

Not necessarily, professionals in a number of fields get excitable and let their emotions dictate their actions instead of being obejctive.

While I can certainly agree that just doesn't add up in this case.

[eugene40]

True, but there aren't many werewolf sightings or werewolf prints now are there?
Fair enough. I am just saying that there are many things that the Native Americans believed in that haven't proven to be real.


While that sounds interesting they've also been found in places people usually don't go. I don't know if you can really go and claim they're all hoaxes. That seems unreasonable given the number of them out there and the widespread nature of it.
Not saying all are explainable, just that there are many out there that have said they faked foot prints, that showed up in fake videos etc. Something like this, ghosts, etc etc. Given the wide variety and shear physical space on this planet you could never really debunk it fully. Only on a case by case basis.


I don't think I've seen anything suggesting the Patterson film has truly been "debunked" or disproved. The claims generally focus on whether it is possible for a human in a suit to carry out the actions and there is some dispute on that.
One of my anthropology professors at school said it was fake. He was interviewed by the discovery channel in regards to the video and mimicked the stride of the supposed bigfoot. Many others have said that the heals are too square etc etc.


crop circles are much simpler, though. I could probably do it with a little training. I could not, however, reproduce that film with a little training. People who are much better-trained at it have a hard time.
You couldn't purchase a ape suit modify it and then take a shaky film from a good distance away of something walking away.


While I can certainly agree that just doesn't add up in this case.
The thing that doesn't add up for me especially with the video is a few things. First, the thing being an animal and far better senses than we have would have smelled patterson long before he came upon him and would have avoided him. Second, The thing turns and looks at him like it is the 1,000 human that he had ever seen. Had this been a new occurrence it would have either darted away or stopped and looked at the potential new meal. Third, As an animal and bipedal one at that. Darwinism would dictate to this creature that its natural enemies are those that are much faster who run on four legs. Ie mountain lions, cougars, bears, wolves etc. It would have seen the horses again not knowing what they were and only noticing that it had for legs, it would realize that it was faster then it and would beat a hasty retreat at this new potential enemy.

Another thing would be the horse, Now I don't ride but I have four wheel out in to the country with people on horses I have seen horses freak out at the smell of coyotes. One would think the horses would have freaked out at this new and different smell and or sight. And patterson himself, you are a hardened mountain man and you have a rifle on your shoulder. You see something that have been legend for as long as there have been people in the woods and you don't get a shot off? Really. You don't make an attempt to track something, that to me would be one of the easiest things to track. Just seems odd to me. Now I know they tracked it for a bit. But something that size would be easy to track.

[ScummyD]

Yeah, I defintiely would have shot to wound the beast in order to capture it. And at that range it would not have been hard to hit with a rifle.

[MikeD4o7]

1. No bigfoot bones, excrement, or remains have ever been found.
2. The location and frequency of sightings makes it pretty hard to swallow also. We have story after story of encounters with bigfoot in not only all parts of America, but all over the world... and yet no hard evidence has been found? Apparently these things are everywhere, but are so few in numbers that we can't ever find them except when somebody takes a wobbly videocamera in the woods? (until now I guess if you actually believe this)


Anything's possible I guess... but when's the last time we discovered a new species of Mammal that's bigger in size than ourselves? If there are some big creatures out there we don't know about... they're at the depths of the ocean, not somewhere between Atlanta and DC

[Mirror Lake 444]

1. No bigfoot bones, excrement, or remains have ever been found.
2. The location and frequency of sightings makes it pretty hard to swallow also. We have story after story of encounters with bigfoot in not only all parts of America, but all over the world... and yet no hard evidence has been found? Apparently these things are everywhere, but are so few in numbers that we can't ever find them except when somebody takes a wobbly videocamera in the woods? (until now I guess if you actually believe this)


Anything's possible I guess... but when's the last time we discovered a new species of Mammal that's bigger in size than ourselves? If there are some big creatures out there we don't know about... they're at the depths of the ocean, not somewhere between Atlanta and DC

Agreed! As someone that is into the outdoors and writes about it, even the the most reclusive animals leave signs and they die like everything else and leave a carcass occasionally.

[eugene40]

Agreed! As someone that is into the outdoors and writes about it, even the the most reclusive animals leave signs and they die like everything else and leave a carcass occasionally.

I agree, that and the apparent fact that no one despite the tracks supposedly left by these things. No one has been able to track it. And to me I have been taught to track and spend a good deal of time outdoors in places that are not populated by tourists, these things wouldn't be that difficult to do so. Get someone like Tom Brown, or Tom Brown junior and there is no doubt in my mind that they could track this thing. And no one has been able to. I find that odd.

[Strucky]

http://www.jumperlumps.com/elements/1/images/products/THUMBNAIL/699/hook-line-sinker.gif


Sounds like another great National Enquirer cover story.

They got the Edwards story right.

[Demon of Light]

Not saying all are explainable, just that there are many out there that have said they faked foot prints, that showed up in fake videos etc.

You're just saying most of them are, which is still quite a lot to say.

Something like this, ghosts, etc etc.

Really comparing this to ghosts is flimsy, comparing it even to Loch Ness is overdoing it. There's a lot more physical evidence for Bigfoot than any other cryptid.

One of my anthropology professors at school said it was fake. He was interviewed by the discovery channel in regards to the video and mimicked the stride of the supposed bigfoot. Many others have said that the heals are too square etc etc.

Did you seriously just say your teacher told you? I mean, do you just eat up anything a "skeptic" says? Others have looked at it and said they can't really say either way and some have said they can't replicate it or that it's not something a human could do or at least not easily do. So far no one has provided anything but doubt about the film. No one has honestly "debunked" it.

You couldn't purchase a ape suit modify it and then take a shaky film from a good distance away of something walking away.

Many people who know about costumes in that time have said it is much better than your run-of-the-mill suit if it is a suit. Some have said otherwise, but the fact is you have people who have experience in the area on both sides of the matter. I think most have at least said it is a fairly good suit if it is one.

The thing that doesn't add up for me especially with the video is a few things. First, the thing being an animal and far better senses than we have would have smelled patterson long before he came upon him and would have avoided him.

Maybe, maybe not, maybe it didn't care. You can't assume every creature behaves the same away.

Second, The thing turns and looks at him like it is the 1,000 human that he had ever seen. Had this been a new occurrence it would have either darted away or stopped and looked at the potential new meal.

Maybe it had seen humans before. Is that really unusual? There were sightings in that area after all. As far as looking at a potential new meal that just seems really silly to say. How do you know it eats meat?

Third, As an animal and bipedal one at that. Darwinism would dictate to this creature that its natural enemies are those that are much faster who run on four legs. Ie mountain lions, cougars, bears, wolves etc. It would have seen the horses again not knowing what they were and only noticing that it had for legs, it would realize that it was faster then it and would beat a hasty retreat at this new potential enemy.

That or maybe it is a very intelligent creature that is generally cautious but curious. Not knowing if it is friend or foe it does not beat a hasty retreat but walks away all the while watching to see if it has any need to move faster.

Another thing would be the horse, Now I don't ride but I have four wheel out in to the country with people on horses I have seen horses freak out at the smell of coyotes. One would think the horses would have freaked out at this new and different smell and or sight.

I'm not sure if they did or not, but it's possible they wouldn't.

And patterson himself, you are a hardened mountain man and you have a rifle on your shoulder. You see something that have been legend for as long as there have been people in the woods and you don't get a shot off? Really.

He actually was investigating bigfoot and the sightings. He went to a place where there were sightings. Maybe he faked it, maybe he was the lucky one to look for it and actually find it.

You don't make an attempt to track something, that to me would be one of the easiest things to track. Just seems odd to me. Now I know they tracked it for a bit. But something that size would be easy to track.

I don't think it would be as easy to track as you would believe, especially if you're not an experienced tracker. After all, 120,000 gorillas.

I agree, that and the apparent fact that no one despite the tracks supposedly left by these things. No one has been able to track it. And to me I have been taught to track and spend a good deal of time outdoors in places that are not populated by tourists, these things wouldn't be that difficult to do so. Get someone like Tom Brown, or Tom Brown junior and there is no doubt in my mind that they could track this thing. And no one has been able to. I find that odd.

I think to some extent people have not seriously tried to track it rather than not being able.

[Strucky]

I'm not believing any of this Big Foot crap until the thing has been dissected by real scientists and doctors.

[eugene40]

Really comparing this to ghosts is flimsy, comparing it even to Loch Ness is overdoing it. There's a lot more physical evidence for Bigfoot than any other cryptid.

Loch ness is over doing it. But ghosts, there are shows upon shows dedicated to proving that ghosts exist. With more "evidence" than this one video and some foot prints that have been at times proven fake.


Did you seriously just say your teacher told you? I mean, do you just eat up anything a "skeptic" says? Others have looked at it and said they can't really say either way and some have said they can't replicate it or that it's not something a human could do or at least not easily do. So far no one has provided anything but doubt about the film. No one has honestly "debunked" it.
No my professor who was enough of an expert in the field of anthropology was interviewed by the discovery channel when they did a documentary on Bigfoot. So he was an expert enough for them to come to a tiny arse college town in the middle of nowhere. When they could have gone 5 miles from their studios in LA and talk to someone at UCLA. That is what I am saying. He studied it for years until he realized came to his conclusion that the video was bunk. And many others, from video experts on have also said this. Now granted for every one of these people there is another on the opposite side of the subject saying that it is real.



Many people who know about costumes in that time have said it is much better than your run-of-the-mill suit if it is a suit. Some have said otherwise, but the fact is you have people who have experience in the area on both sides of the matter. I think most have at least said it is a fairly good suit if it is one.
I give full props to whoever designed this that it looks real. However so did the alien from Alien Autopsy a few year back. They had a whole freaking autopsy conducted. So it isn't impossible.



Maybe, maybe not, maybe it didn't care. You can't assume every creature behaves the same away.
Natural selection I think would disagree with you. There are very few animals in the kingdom that are indifferent about their existence and survival.



Maybe it had seen humans before. Is that really unusual? There were sightings in that area after all. As far as looking at a potential new meal that just seems really silly to say. How do you know it eats meat?
Even if it had seen humans before. Its natural instinct would be to avoid them, due to they would have to perceive us as threats. And if it is based on homo sapiens or whatever it is. It has to to have incisors and canines which are used by mammals to tear flesh. Now granted as we are omnivores logic would dictate so would it be. And as we were scavengers at one time again you would have to think this would be that way as well. Maybe not an attacking and predatory animal but I would say that it eats meat.


That or maybe it is a very intelligent creature that is generally cautious but curious. Not knowing if it is friend or foe it does not beat a hasty retreat but walks away all the while watching to see if it has any need to move faster.
If it is an intelligent creature it would have to realize that the horse is faster than it and would have to avoid it. Maybe it is comfortable in its defensive skills, after all it is massive. But a bear could take it, a cougar could take it and something the size of a horse it would have to think would be at least able to run it down. And it bothers me that it sees patterson, a tall man with the same basic features as it has and it isn't the least bit curious. Doesn't stop, doesn't break stride it is as if it sees humans everyday like its camp is behind Rays in Hoopa, CA.


I'm not sure if they did or not, but it's possible they wouldn't.

True

He actually was investigating bigfoot and the sightings. He went to a place where there were sightings. Maybe he faked it, maybe he was the lucky one to look for it and actually find it.
That is another thing, he is up here in washington searching around St. Helens. Gets a call that there has been some things going around Bluff Creek. He goes and sees one. In the open, with the camera at the ready and all of that. Seems hinky to me. But yes, maybe he did get lucky. Maybe whoever called him played a trick on him who knows.


I don't think it would be as easy to track as you would believe, especially if you're not an experienced tracker. After all, 120,000 gorillas.
I have tracked deer and other more elusive animals. But a 7 foot + 300 to 400 pound thing isn't spry. It leaves an immense track and has to smell horrible. I have taken a few classes in my time and I know any of those who taught me wouldn't have that hard of a time.



I think to some extent people have not seriously tried to track it rather than not being able.

No they haven't. Which would lead me to ask, why? If you were this guy in CA this supposed expert. Wouldn't you hire men like Tom Brown Jr. Or any of the other qualified trackers to hunt it down?

[ScummyD]

I believe in ghosts more than anything else and its based on several personal experiences.

To take one. . .me and my friend where downstairs in his house watching an old TV where you had to hand turn a knob in a circle to change channels. Each turn to change the channel was a stiff, hard turn and it went "thunk. . .thunk. . .thunk" when changing channels due to the resistance and then it would like fall into the slot or whatever for the next channel. There were like 13 channels or something; an old TV.

Anyway, we were watching the TV like any other night when suddenly the knob started turning in a circle by itself and changing channels all by itself!!!

Prior to that we had a few other occurrences. It was not uncommon to come home and his TV would be on in his bedroom and just have the black and white static on it just like the freakin' movie Poltergeist.

Later we found out that somebody had blown their head off with a shotgun in the house.

I am not sure of any other explanation for that TV turning channels all by itself than that it was a spirit or whatever. It scared the living hell out of us!!!

[ScummyD]

Agreed! As someone that is into the outdoors and writes about it, even the the most reclusive animals leave signs and they die like everything else and leave a carcass occasionally.

And if not a whole carcass you would at least think some bones would have turned up by now.



I agree, that and the apparent fact that no one despite the tracks supposedly left by these things. No one has been able to track it. And to me I have been taught to track and spend a good deal of time outdoors in places that are not populated by tourists, these things wouldn't be that difficult to do so. Get someone like Tom Brown, or Tom Brown junior and there is no doubt in my mind that they could track this thing. And no one has been able to. I find that odd.
I was thinking about that last night.

Am I way off to think that there are profesionals that are able to track people that are intentionally trying to cover their trail?

Who knows, but I would think that if there is a bigfoot that they would not have the same intelligence to cover their tracks like a human fleeing from captors. And considering their size it seems near impossible that they would have escaped capture from trackers for so many decades.

[prst31]

I believe in ghosts more than anything else and its based on several personal experiences.

To take one. . .me and my friend where downstairs in his house watching an old TV where you had to hand turn a knob in a circle to change channels. Each turn to change the channel was a stiff, hard turn and it went "thunk. . .thunk. . .thunk" when changing channels due to the resistance and then it would like fall into the slot or whatever for the next channel. There were like 13 channels or something; an old TV.

Anyway, we were watching the TV like any other night when suddenly the knob started turning in a circle by itself and changing channels all by itself!!!

Prior to that we had a few other occurrences. It was not uncommon to come home and his TV would be on in his bedroom and just have the black and white static on it just like the freakin' movie Poltergeist.

Later we found out that somebody had blown their head off with a shotgun in the house.

I am not sure of any other explanation for that TV turning channels all by itself than that it was a spirit or whatever. It scared the living hell out of us!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDzEA58myjs&feature=related

[ScummyD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDzEA58myjs&feature=related
:lol: Actually, it was well before I did any of that.;)

"I got a postcard from my friend George the other day. It was a picture of the planet earth. On the other side it said, 'Wish you were here.'" --Steven Wright

[prst31]

:lol: Actually, it was well before I did any of that.;)

"I got a postcard from my friend George the other day. It was a picture of the planet earth. On the other side it said, 'Wish you were here.'" --Steven WrightI've had one ghost experience. A day after a family member passed away in our home, we returned from dining out to find an outside porch light on. We never turned that specific side porch light on, and the switch was difficult to get to (behind some plants and a ficus tree). It was creepy.

Nice SW quote. :beer:

[eugene40]

And if not a whole carcass you would at least think some bones would have turned up by now.



I was thinking about that last night.

Am I way off to think that there are profesionals that are able to track people that are intentionally trying to cover their trail?

Who knows, but I would think that if there is a bigfoot that they would not have the same intelligence to cover their tracks like a human fleeing from captors. And considering their size it seems near impossible that they would have escaped capture from trackers for so many decades.

Well the schools I have been to, and I have taken a class or two at Tom Brown jr's school. I think that they would be able to. My buddy that taught me the long gun is an ex scout sniper for the USMC and he can track and stalk anything. He is truly amazing.

But Animals are different then humans, I am pretty experienced in the outdoors. And I am not sure that I could completely hide the evidence that I have been through a place. But for this thing it would be its size, feet and weight. You can watch the video, there isn't an ounce of grace in those steps. They are heavy and lumbering. I doubt that given the sheer size of its track it could cover that up. Now there is the natural way of heading over rock areas, and through rivers to mask your trail. But again an expert tracker would be able to pick it up on the other side. Also to me the size of the thing doesn't look that it would be able to mind breaking little branches and twigs that are a clear indication of the trail that it would make.

[Demon of Light]

Loch ness is over doing it. But ghosts, there are shows upon shows dedicated to proving that ghosts exist. With more "evidence" than this one video and some foot prints that have been at times proven fake.

Except the evidence for ghosts is far more flimsy and the evidence they are really spirits of the dead walking the earth is even flimsier. I mean, Bigfoot exists in the physical realm and isn't some supernatural being. That means you can find legitimate physical evidence unlike with ghosts.

He studied it for years until he realized came to his conclusion that the video was bunk. And many others, from video experts on have also said this. Now granted for every one of these people there is another on the opposite side of the subject saying that it is real.

In other words, you admit some have claimed it is fake and others have claimed it is real, not considering those who have claimed it can not really be proven either way. So your claim that it was "debunked" is based entirely on a selective reviewing of the facts.

I give full props to whoever designed this that it looks real. However so did the alien from Alien Autopsy a few year back. They had a whole freaking autopsy conducted. So it isn't impossible.

True, but there's no indication anyone in that time had the skill to make such an outfit. There have been claims from various people that they were "in the suit" or "made the costume" but pretty much all of them have basically been shown to be false claims.

Natural selection I think would disagree with you. There are very few animals in the kingdom that are indifferent about their existence and survival.

Your arguments are just ridiculous. I'm saying some animals may not get quickly spooked and run away, but may be simply cautiously move away, especially if the people are not particularly close.

Even if it had seen humans before. Its natural instinct would be to avoid them, due to they would have to perceive us as threats.

This is just ridiculous. :rolleyes:

And if it is based on homo sapiens or whatever it is. It has to to have incisors and canines which are used by mammals to tear flesh. Now granted as we are omnivores logic would dictate so would it be. And as we were scavengers at one time again you would have to think this would be that way as well. Maybe not an attacking and predatory animal but I would say that it eats meat.

Maybe, but again your argument about looking at live humans as "a potential meal" seems to be weakened by this statement.

If it is an intelligent creature it would have to realize that the horse is faster than it and would have to avoid it. Maybe it is comfortable in its defensive skills, after all it is massive. But a bear could take it, a cougar could take it and something the size of a horse it would have to think would be at least able to run it down. And it bothers me that it sees patterson, a tall man with the same basic features as it has and it isn't the least bit curious. Doesn't stop, doesn't break stride it is as if it sees humans everyday like its camp is behind Rays in Hoopa, CA.

Like I said it could have seen humans and horses before. I just think you're making up reasons to question it right now.

I have tracked deer and other more elusive animals. But a 7 foot + 300 to 400 pound thing isn't spry. It leaves an immense track and has to smell horrible. I have taken a few classes in my time and I know any of those who taught me wouldn't have that hard of a time.

What I'm saying is they may not have had any training or serious experience with tracking.

No they haven't. Which would lead me to ask, why? If you were this guy in CA this supposed expert. Wouldn't you hire men like Tom Brown Jr. Or any of the other qualified trackers to hunt it down?

While that's a good question it would seem you're suggesting the entire Bigfoot community is in on a giant hoax. Again, that seems unreasonable. I think some have employed trackers in certain expeditions, but it's always harder to track something long after it's left. Most people who report sightings are average joes with no tracking skills.

On another note it seems this particular claim of find a corpse has been debunked:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/bigfoot.hoax/?iref=hpmostpop

[Dangerrmouse]

A hoax is still a hoax however many people believe it. The obvious zipper line up it's back is enough for most to dismiss it as such.

[eugene40]

Except the evidence for ghosts is far more flimsy and the evidence they are really spirits of the dead walking the earth is even flimsier. I mean, Bigfoot exists in the physical realm and isn't some supernatural being. That means you can find legitimate physical evidence unlike with ghosts.

Ok I will give you that.

In other words, you admit some have claimed it is fake and others have claimed it is real, not considering those who have claimed it can not really be proven either way. So your claim that it was "debunked" is based entirely on a selective reviewing of the facts.
Well that would depend on what you believe. I believe that the people that have debunked it are correct. And believe the people that think it is real are wrong.


True, but there's no indication anyone in that time had the skill to make such an outfit. There have been claims from various people that they were "in the suit" or "made the costume" but pretty much all of them have basically been shown to be false claims.

Men during that time could make Ghillie suits to blend perfectly into any environment. I doubt it would be that difficult to do this if you put your mind to it.


Your arguments are just ridiculous. I'm saying some animals may not get quickly spooked and run away, but may be simply cautiously move away, especially if the people are not particularly close.

Possibly, but the sheer indifference that it had to two men on horses is suspect to me. Especially since it had to know that animals on four legs that were that big and muscular could run it down. And some animals don't get spooked and run away easy. Bears don't. But this thing I think would have at least picked up the pace a bit. It didn't.


This is just ridiculous. :rolleyes:
How so? Something relatively similar to yourself (bigfoot) that has apparently mastered another beast (horse) that could run you down.


Maybe, but again your argument about looking at live humans as "a potential meal" seems to be weakened by this statement.
Possibly, it would all depend on the nature, demeanor of the animal. Monkey, Orangutans, Gorillas. Have all been known to attack humans and eat them. Or live with them and treat them normal.


Like I said it could have seen humans and horses before. I just think you're making up reasons to question it right now.
It could have. But again it would have to be keenly interested in its own survival and take measures to stay away from us. I mean they have done this so far. Save for this time. Where a man just happens to have a camera.


What I'm saying is they may not have had any training or serious experience with tracking.
Quite possible. But I am saying that a animal this size and shape with such a distinct footprint would be something that a novice could track.


While that's a good question it would seem you're suggesting the entire Bigfoot community is in on a giant hoax. Again, that seems unreasonable. I think some have employed trackers in certain expeditions, but it's always harder to track something long after it's left. Most people who report sightings are average joes with no tracking skills.
It just seems odd to me.

On another note it seems this particular claim of find a corpse has been debunked:
That is too bad. It would have been truly amazing if it were true.

[Demon of Light]

Well that would depend on what you believe. I believe that the people that have debunked it are correct. And believe the people that think it is real are wrong.

Believing it is debunked is a long way from having been "debunked" as a matter of fact.

Men during that time could make Ghillie suits to blend perfectly into any environment. I doubt it would be that difficult to do this if you put your mind to it.

There's a big difference between making a costume that from a distance appears to be a bunch of foliage and making a costume that looks like a bipedal ape.

Possibly, but the sheer indifference that it had to two men on horses is suspect to me. Especially since it had to know that animals on four legs that were that big and muscular could run it down. And some animals don't get spooked and run away easy. Bears don't. But this thing I think would have at least picked up the pace a bit. It didn't.

I think they were actually further away than you may take from the film.

How so? Something relatively similar to yourself (bigfoot) that has apparently mastered another beast (horse) that could run you down.

You're arguing that they would "have" to perceive us as threats. Based on what? Not every animal behaves the same way and greater intelligence has an odd way of messing with things. An intelligent human being may not run away from something that will kill it while many "dumber" creatures will flee in terror.

Possibly, it would all depend on the nature, demeanor of the animal. Monkey, Orangutans, Gorillas. Have all been known to attack humans and eat them. Or live with them and treat them normal.

Yes, and that applies to many other mammals and animals as well. You can't assume a common standard of behavior for any organism, let alone one as intelligent as Bigfoot would be.

It could have. But again it would have to be keenly interested in its own survival and take measures to stay away from us. I mean they have done this so far. Save for this time. Where a man just happens to have a camera.

It is suspicious granted, but then again, it's quite possible the person who finds Bigfoot for reals and proves to the world it exists will be someone looking for Bigfoot who happens to have a convenient encounter.

Quite possible. But I am saying that a animal this size and shape with such a distinct footprint would be something that a novice could track.

Maybe, it's not always that simple.

[eugene40]

Believing it is debunked is a long way from having been "debunked" as a matter of fact.



There's a big difference between making a costume that from a distance appears to be a bunch of foliage and making a costume that looks like a bipedal ape.



I think they were actually further away than you may take from the film.



You're arguing that they would "have" to perceive us as threats. Based on what? Not every animal behaves the same way and greater intelligence has an odd way of messing with things. An intelligent human being may not run away from something that will kill it while many "dumber" creatures will flee in terror.



Yes, and that applies to many other mammals and animals as well. You can't assume a common standard of behavior for any organism, let alone one as intelligent as Bigfoot would be.



It is suspicious granted, but then again, it's quite possible the person who finds Bigfoot for reals and proves to the world it exists will be someone looking for Bigfoot who happens to have a convenient encounter.



Maybe, it's not always that simple.

Fair enough. I think we could continue this but we would still be hashing out the same arguments. The kid in me likes to believe in such things. The cynic alas does not. It is always fun to speculate though. We should move on to another topic. Ghosts, Aliens, something. This was fun, thank DOL.

[Riddley]

Someone has to post it.
The claimed recent discovery of Bigfoot in the US state of Georgia has turned out to be a hoax - it was a rubber gorilla suit in a block of ice. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7571483.stm)

[Mirror Lake 444]

I agree, that and the apparent fact that no one despite the tracks supposedly left by these things. No one has been able to track it. And to me I have been taught to track and spend a good deal of time outdoors in places that are not populated by tourists, these things wouldn't be that difficult to do so. Get someone like Tom Brown, or Tom Brown junior and there is no doubt in my mind that they could track this thing. And no one has been able to. I find that odd.

Not odd. Just proof that the creature is a myth and doesn't exist.

[Mirror Lake 444]

I believe in ghosts more than anything else and its based on several personal experiences.

To take one. . .me and my friend where downstairs in his house watching an old TV where you had to hand turn a knob in a circle to change channels. Each turn to change the channel was a stiff, hard turn and it went "thunk. . .thunk. . .thunk" when changing channels due to the resistance and then it would like fall into the slot or whatever for the next channel. There were like 13 channels or something; an old TV.

Anyway, we were watching the TV like any other night when suddenly the knob started turning in a circle by itself and changing channels all by itself!!!

Prior to that we had a few other occurrences. It was not uncommon to come home and his TV would be on in his bedroom and just have the black and white static on it just like the freakin' movie Poltergeist.

Later we found out that somebody had blown their head off with a shotgun in the house.

I am not sure of any other explanation for that TV turning channels all by itself than that it was a spirit or whatever. It scared the living hell out of us!!!

My wife and I had a weird experience in our first house. One Saturday morning I was sleeping in after a long night in the shop to complete some deadlines. The wife was not around as she had gone to the post office. As I was laying there I heard footsteps coming down the stairs (we have no kids and there was no one else in our house) approaching the bedroom I was in. Even though I was a grown man I instinctively closed my eyes when I heard them approach the bedroom. I won't lie, I was scared! Suddenly it felt icy cold and then back to normal and nothing was there when I opened my eyes.

Figuring I may have been half asleep and imagined it, I said nothing about it to my wife. A few days later the wife said, "you know I had the weirdest thing happen to me one day when you weren't here." She proceeded to tell me the same exact thing that had happened to me!

We had a family reunion at my parent's house years ago. One of my relatives is quite strange and always sees things that no one else does. We attributed it to some form of schizophrenia. After he showed up he kept saying, "I see Native American spirits among us. I see Native American spirits among us." "Sure you do," we thought.

We did find out later from a gentlemen that was over 100 years old that one of the biggest Native American settlements around was on a hill right behind my parents house. I'm not saying there was anything to this but I found it at least amusing.

One of the biggest concentrations of Native Americans in the midwest was about 30 miles to the northeast of my parent's house.

[Demon of Light]

Someone has to post it.
The claimed recent discovery of Bigfoot in the US state of Georgia has turned out to be a hoax - it was a rubber gorilla suit in a block of ice. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7571483.stm)

Someone already did. *points at self*

Unfortunately this just screws it up even more for people who are actually looking for an unknown species rather than looking to make a quick buck.

[USA-1]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407263,00.html

Bigfoot Hoaxers Still On the Lam