What do you know about Islam ?

[Green_World]

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.

Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man in the Holy Quran....

http://www.islamworld.net/true.html

[KWJams]

What is the definition of "religion"?

[thoss52]

well what I know is its a patriarchal religion with few rights afford woman in country's ruled by it , one practice still done in the middle east is female circumcision , to prevent her from enjoying sex ,
that its a brother of Christianity , its a concurring religion as is Christianity . its Koran promote killing non believers ,

it believes Gods on their side ,

and that I do not like it trust it or wish top deal with it ,

thats enough .

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
well what I know is its a patriarchal religion with few rights afford woman in country's ruled by it , one practice still done in the middle east is female circumcision , to prevent her from enjoying sex ,
that its a brother of Christianity , its a concurring religion as is Christianity . its Koran promote killing non believers ,

it believes Gods on their side ,

and that I do not like it trust it or wish top deal with it ,

thats enough . Let me ask, what do you really know about the religion? Really, as in studied, spoke with practicing Muslims, etc. rather than what you have just heard or assume?

[thoss52]

you want me to qualify my opinion ? how do you figure you have that right ? its an opinion , but lets look at it , first I have read the Koran , the Torah the bible [not all 94 version ] . I've talk to Muslims , I see the news [ Muslim country in Africa sentenced a woman to death by burring her to her neck then to stone her to death , yes was repealed but mot by clerics but government officials do to world out cry } do you deny this ?

womans groups lying about the circumcision?

are their Muslim strapping bombs to them self killing non Muslim great lady Hel killing other Muslim .

what in my post do you fined wrong ? and what do you know of Islam ?

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
you want me to qualify my opinion ? how do you figure you have that right ? 1) You've come to a political message board. If you don't want or do not expect to be asked to qualify your opinions, I'm not sure why you would come to a place like this.

2) Your statement contained items listed as 'facts'. If you are going to present items as facts, then surely you would have no problem backing them up, right?

3) It is against the forum rules to preach hate on these boards. There's no problem if you want to discuss what you perceive as problems with Islam. However there's a fine line between that and spreading propaganda. Make sure you're on the right side of that line. Originally posted by thoss52
its an opinion , but lets look at it , first I have read the Koran , the Torah the bible [not all 94 version ] . I've talk to Muslims , I see the news [ Muslim country in Africa sentenced a woman to death by burring her to her neck then to stone her to death , yes was repealed but mot by clerics but government officials do to world out cry } do you deny this ?

womans groups lying about the circumcision? There are cases in all religions, but those religions are not defined by the extremes.Originally posted by thoss52
are their Muslim strapping bombs to them self killing non Muslim great lady Hel killing other Muslim . I understand the first part of the sentence to be a reference to Muslims using suicide bombers to advance their goals. Again, that does not define mainstream Islam. As for the rest of your sentence, perhaps you want to try again. The meaning is unclear.

[thoss52]

All religions ? not mine .

we do not advocate cruelty , non of our books have suffer not the life of a witch , or anything that could be interpreted as right to kill .

your right my opinions are subject to scrutiny but they being opinions do not have to show documentation .

so back at you : what do you know of world religions to state that as fact?

[thoss52]

your right it does not show all Muslims a suicide bomber but Islam its self as having writing that through interpretation condones it . and that is where I was referring to .but I could as easily state the same about Christan's , with the fundamentalist killing doctors but the thread was "what do you know about Islam , and here you are telling me what I know or don't ? rather then making silly statement up2 shouldn't you instead post "ok but not all participate in that ? I'd come back participation is half , the majority of Muslim around the world applaud it , the most popular name in Islam today is Osma . and Muslims are vary anti semitic on the same grounds as Hitler .

[up2date]

Originally posted by thoss52
your right it does not show all Muslims a suicide bomber but Islam its self as having writing that through interpretation condones it . and that is where I was referring to . That's exactly it. Some people interpret it that way. As you correctly pointed out, some people interpret the bible in ways most people would find perverse. But it's unfair to categorize Christianity by those people just as it's unfair to categorize Islam by a select few. Originally posted by thoss52
but I could as easily state the same about Christan's , with the fundamentalist killing doctors but the thread was "what do you know about Islam , and here you are telling me what I know or don't ? I simply asked you to explain how you knew these things. It strikes me as odd that you acknowledge to "know" that your statements did not apply to all Muslims, yet you chose to present it that way in your opening statement.

As for what I base my knowledge on, I am admittedly no theologian. However I have read quite a bit and have known many, many Muslims in my time.

[thoss52]

this silly , ok a few bomb people but a lot approve ,look at the Muslim reaction to 9/11 or any bombing , when they hold the people that do it as hero's ,
when the religion it self holds them as martyrs and going to heaven .

you say they all must bomb to be in the same basket? I say no they don't , how many Muslim are noted for condemning terrorism in the public ?

[Green_World]

Originally posted by thoss52
well what I know is its a patriarchal religion with few rights afford woman in country's ruled by it , one practice still done in the middle east is female circumcision , to prevent her from enjoying sex ,
that its a brother of Christianity , its a concurring religion as is Christianity . its Koran promote killing non believers ,

it believes Gods on their side ,

and that I do not like it trust it or wish top deal with it ,

thats enough .

Green World:

I think you are very misinformed about Islam, women in Islam have more rights that women in the west.

Name me one American president or even vice-president who happened to be woman ?? NONE.

Now, the president of the largest muslim country in the world is Muslim woman, president Megawati of Indonesia.
in 1991, when Benazi Butue ( Pakistani muslim woman ) was the Prime minister of Pakistan, one of the famous CNN ignorant anchors said: Muslim women have no rights to vote in the Muslim world !!!!

Islam BAN female-Circumcission, it is practiced in some African states as cultural habit rather than religous.

The Quran does not order us to kill non-muslims, this is absurd.
look at the history of Muslim tolerance throughout the world, Saladin and his treatment of the crusaders is good example.

[Green_World]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thoss52
you want me to qualify my opinion ? how do you figure you have that right ? its an opinion , but lets look at it , first I have read the Koran , the Torah the bible [not all 94 version ] . I've talk to Muslims , I see the news [ Muslim country in Africa sentenced a woman to death by burring her to her neck then to stone her to death , yes was repealed but mot by clerics but government officials do to world out cry } do you deny this ?
====================================
Green World:

What kind of news do you read ? FOX JEWS and the ZNN ( zionist national news ) !!

these same bias news failed to tell you that the court you are talking about set free this woman who was accused of adultery and no one was stoned, of course, your biased media did not tell you that.

========================================
womans groups lying about the circumcision?
=======================================
Green World

What women groups ? please be objective and dont throw general statements, show me where in the Quran it says, women have to be circumcized !!

=========================================
are their Muslim strapping bombs to them self killing non Muslim great lady Hel killing other Muslim .
===========================================
Green World:

You fail to realize that the Buddist TAMIL TIGERS in Seri lanka are the ones who used suicide bombers more than any other groups, the Japanese KIMIKAZI pilots were also suicide bombers...it is not something unique to Islam or Muslims.

========================================

[Green_World]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thoss52
All religions ? not mine .
we do not advocate cruelty , non of our books have suffer not the life of a witch , or anything that could be interpreted as right to kill .
=================================
Green World:

May i ask what is your religion ??

[Green_World]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thoss52
your right it does not show all Muslims a suicide bomber but Islam its self as having writing that through interpretation condones it .
===========================
Green World:

Please, dont make ignorant statements, Islam does not condone killing innocent people.

==============================
the majority of Muslim around the world applaud it , the most popular name in Islam today is Osma . and Muslims are vary anti semitic on the same grounds as Hitler .
==============================
Green World:

This is utter rubbish, how many tapes this terrorist bin laden sent urging muslims all over the world to raise up !! did anyone listen to him ? did you see 1.5 billion muslims raising up and wrecking havoc on the world ???

ISLAM DENOUNCES TERRORISM:

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

Muslims are NOT anti semitic because many muslims are semitic themselves ( the Arabs ) so how can arabs be anti arabs ?

the muslims are not anti jews, they are anti zionism, and for those who dont know what is zionism, i will explain:

Zionism is jewish racist movement that established a jewish state in palestine and drove the palestineans out of their homeland, it is racist movement that consider jews the chosen people and the rest to be the scum.

Zionist jewish crimes in Palestine is so horrible, no wonder, Muslims hate zionists, here you have some graphic pictures of their crimes against innocent palestineans:

[Green_World]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thoss52
this silly , ok a few bomb people but a lot approve ,look at the Muslim reaction to 9/11 or any bombing , when they hold the people that do it as hero's ,
===================================
Green World:

No my friend, we did not cheer when 9/11 happened, we did not consider bin laden a hero, he is a terrorist killer and he has reserved his place in hell.

remember, 500 Muslims were killed in the WTC as well, a small mosque inside the WTC was destroyed...how can we consider these killers a heros ?????? PLEASEEEEEEEEE.

====================================
when the religion it self holds them as martyrs and going to heaven .
=====================================
Green World:

What do you mean the religion itself ? does Islam speak ? or maybe Islam has a spokesman who hold these killers as martyers ?? come on. :rolleyes:

=======================================

you say they all must bomb to be in the same basket? I say no they don't , how many Muslim are noted for condemning terrorism in the public ?
====================================
Green world:

The problem is that your biased media dont give muslims fair change to express their opinions, SO MANY MUSLIMS SCHOLARS ISSUED fatwas against terrorism and against killing innocent civilians, here are some links for you:

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civilians: Forbidden in Islam:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/us_attack_not_allowed.htm

Saudi clerics condemn terrorism:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3157493.stm

Islam denounces terrorism:

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

let us read what the Quran says about that:

''Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Green_World
I think you are very misinformed about Islam, women in Islam have more rights that women in the west.

Name me one American president or even vice-president who happened to be woman ?? NONE.

Now, the president of the largest muslim country in the world is Muslim woman, president Megawati of Indonesia.
in 1991, when Benazi Butue ( Pakistani muslim woman ) was the Prime minister of Pakistan, one of the famous CNN ignorant anchors said: Muslim women have no rights to vote in the Muslim world !!!!

Islam BAN female-Circumcission, it is practiced in some African states as cultural habit rather than religous.

The Quran does not order us to kill non-muslims, this is absurd.
look at the history of Muslim tolerance throughout the world, Saladin and his treatment of the crusaders is good example.
Some good points on the women presidents in Islamic countries whereas none in the US and female circumcision is indeed an African cultural habit unlike thoss52's misconception, but please specify what rights women in Islam have more than in the west. :rolleyes:

And if you believe the Quran does not order to kill non-muslims, please explain me the verses :

4: 90. They wish that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you may become alike. Take not, therefore, friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of ALLAH. And if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and take no friend nor helper from among them;

It is true that during the Middle Ages and somewhat beyond, Islam was the most tolerant religion around and the crucaders were the real barbarians, not the people they invaded. Saladin was a gentleman and respected by his christian adversaries. The Jews in Spain under Islam had a better time than under Christianity when they recaptured it. But in these times, in many Islamic countries a much less tolerant interpretation is used by much less tolerant followers.

And by the way, are you someone I've heard of from Pravda?

[up2date]

Originally posted by Green_World
What kind of news do you read ? FOX JEWS and the ZNN ( zionist national news ) !! Green_World, you are justified in defending Islam from thoss52, but comments like this are no more welcome here than his. Please refrain from going down this road again.

[Simon666]

Originally posted by Green_World
What kind of news do you read ? FOX JEWS and the ZNN ( zionist national news ) !!
Personally, I found it amusing. Less amusing was the post in the thread about the terrorist attack in Turkey.

[marv]

Green_World,

I'm sorry Green_World, but Islam's terrorist acts are so loud that I can't hear a word of peace Muslims utter.

Until, and unless, the moderate Muslim community declares the Muslim terrorists apostates and universally disavows their terrorism, there will be no peace, and no "green world".

[Simon666]

Originally posted by marv
I'm sorry Green_World, but Islam's terrorist acts are so loud that I can't hear a word of peace Muslims utter.
That's because you're not listening to that while feeding the terrorists with a microphone.
Originally posted by marv
Until, and unless, the moderate Muslim community declares the Muslim terrorists apostates and universally disavows their terrorism, there will be no peace, and no "green world".
They already did. :rolleyes:

[Green_World]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon666
Some good points on the women presidents in Islamic countries whereas none in the US and female circumcision is indeed an African cultural habit unlike thoss52's misconception, but please specify what rights women in Islam have more than in the west.
=============
Green World:

First let me express my gratitude for your civility in discussing Islam, you are really so polite comparing with other Americans who abused me and insulted my religion...Thank you.

regarding women rights in Islam comparing with the western women, muslim women enjoy the right of financial security for life, whereas western women have to work to survive.
The father is resposible financially to provide for his daughter and when the daughter get married, her husband become financially resposible to provide for her, and if her husband died, then her husband family have to provide for her.
I lived in the west for many years ( in the UK) and I saw how much the women in the west suffer to survive, there, if they dont work, no one care for them..they leave home when they are 14-16 and they live semi-hedonistic life style where they move from one man into another to be sexually used under the banner of Girlfriend !
I remember my class mate in the university telling me that her mother charge her for sleeping at her home !!! Something unimaginable in Islam.

===============
And if you believe the Quran does not order to kill non-muslims, please explain me the verses :

4: 90..
================
Green World:

I think the verse you were refering to is 4:89 and this what the verse says:

4:89. They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allâh (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islâm), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.

First, Allah Almighty commanded the Muslims to be kind and just with non-Muslims, let us read "Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

Just because a person might be a non-Muslim it doesn't automatically make him an enemy to the Muslims. Peace-loving and innocent non-Muslims are to be treated with justice and kindness, otherwise the Muslims would be committing a sin and violating Allah Almighty's Holy Commands, "For Allah loveth Those who are just".

Allah Almighty even made the food of the jews and the christians lawful for muslims and ALLOWED muslims to marry jews and christians, how come we cant make them friends ????

In the specific verse you referd to the Arabic word for "friends" is "Awliyaa", which has four literal meanings: (1) Allies; (2) Friends; and (3) Guardians.
"Waliy" which is the singular of "Awliyaa" means "Guardian" as your parents were your guardians when you were a kid. So as you can see, the Arabic word "Awliyaa" has different literal meanings.
The English translation of the Noble Verse above is not accurate, because the use of the word "friends" is really out of context. The word "Allies" is the correct one, because in all of the Noble Verses above Allah Almighty was talking to the Muslims as a group taking A GROUP OF PEOPLE OR COMMUNITY as "Awliyaa", which fits perfectly with "alliance" than with just personal "friendship" on an individual level.

and remember this verse was revealed when both jews and christians were uniting to wipe out the early muslims.

and finally, dont forget to read 4:90 , I advice you that you always read the verse before and after the specific verse you want to ask about, let us read 4:90:

90. Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. Had Allâh willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allâh has opened no way for you against them.

Here is what I think is the best English Translation of the Noble Quran:

http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/neindex.htm

====================
It is true that during the Middle Ages and somewhat beyond, Islam was the most tolerant religion around and the crucaders were the real barbarians, not the people they invaded. Saladin was a gentleman and respected by his christian adversaries. The Jews in Spain under Islam had a better time than under Christianity when they recaptured it. But in these times, in many Islamic countries a much less tolerant interpretation is used by much less tolerant followers.
====================
Green World:

The problem with today's muslim states is that they DONT practice the Islamic law, did you know that out of 57 Muslim country around the world, only 2 apply twisted islamic laws mixed with cultural elements ??

Most of the Muslim world apply secular man-made laws which are imported from the west, these laws dont suit us because they did not originate from our historical, cultural and social developments.
Muslims were tolerant in Spain and before because they were true muslims applying true tolerant Sharia law.

=======================
And by the way, are you someone I've heard of from Pravda?

=======================
Green World:

No, I think you are mixing me up with someone with similar nickname.

kind regards.

[Green_World]

Originally posted by marv
Green_World,

I'm sorry Green_World, but Islam's terrorist acts are so loud that I can't hear a word of peace Muslims utter.

Until, and unless, the moderate Muslim community declares the Muslim terrorists apostates and universally disavows their terrorism, there will be no peace, and no "green world". [/B]

Green world:

Well, you are entitled to believe whatever you want, the facts are very clear, the Muslims are the victims of terror not the other way around.

-15,000 innocent iraqi muslims have been killed so far since the barbaric American aggression against Iraq started, dont you call that terrorism ???

-13,000 innocent Afghani muslims have been killed so far since the 'war of terror' started by America, dont you call that terrorism ?

-200,000 innocent chechyen muslims have been killed by the Russian terrorists in the last decade, dont you call that terrorism ?

-100,000 innocent muslim civilians have been killed in BOSNIA by the christian serbs, dont you call that terrorism ?

-ONE AND HALF MILLION innocent iraqi muslims have been killed since the barbaric sanctions against iraq were imposed by the 'free world' , dont you call that terrorism ?

-HALF MILLION palestineans have been killed and 3 MILLION have been forced out of their homes by the terrorist state of Israel, dont you call that terrorism ???

-Thousands of innocent Kashmiri muslims have been killed by the fanatical hindu government in india, dont you call that terrorism ?

-Thousands of Muslims were killed in northern Uganda by extreme fanatical christian terrorist organisation called, the lord resistance army, dont you call that terrorism ?

Here you have some graphic pictures of American terrorism against the Iraqi muslims:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/us_attack.htm

And another graphic pictures of Israeli jewish terrorism against the palestineans:

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm

And some graphic pictures of the Russian terrorism against innocent muslim chechens:

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/chechnya/index.html

And some graphic pictures of christian serb terrorism against innocent Bosnian muslims :

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/bosnia/index.html

And some graphic picturs of hindu indian terrorism against innocent muslims in Kashmir:

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/kashmir/index.htm

And here, you have some pictures of hindu terrorists burning muslims alive in India:

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/india/index.htm

And here is the site that conclude the American terrorism against Muslims and other nations:

MOD Edit- violation of rules you agreed to when joining this forum

And many many more........I dont care what you or other think Marv, we muslims had enough, you either condemn all kind of terrorism including that which is against muslims or better keep your mouth closed....Or is it muslim blood cheaper than the American and the jewish blood ??????????

[Missouri Mule]

And flying airbombs into 110 story office buildings is appropriate response?

[thoss52]

Originally posted by Simon666
That's because you're not listening to that while feeding the terrorists with a microphone.

They already did. :rolleyes:

how can any one say Muslims are against terrorist when after 9/11 Osoma became the most popular name in Islam ? that they cheered in the streets , now I'm not talking ALL but majority .

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Missouri Mule
And flying airbombs into 110 story office buildings is appropriate response?

Green world:

NO, killing innocent people was never the response, neither dropping 2 tones bombs on innocent afghani and Iraqi MUSLIMS....it is the time to look at your own terrorism if you want to have rational constructive debate.

[Simon666]

I didn't see him claim that, on the opposite:

No my friend, we did not cheer when 9/11 happened, we did not consider bin laden a hero, he is a terrorist killer and he has reserved his place in hell.

[thoss52]

Originally posted by Green_World
Green world:

NO, killing innocent people was never the response, neither dropping 2 tones bombs on innocent afghani and Iraqi MUSLIMS....it is the time to look at your own terrorism if you want to have rational constructive debate.

what a load of crap.

civilians in every war are killed , they even have a term for it , collateral damage .
green-world why do you think that innocent people where targeted ? they where not . but the tread center they were .

as for war ? grow up . its a nasty , uncontrolled act . we did our best . better then any other country in any other war .,

[Green_World]

Originally posted by thoss52
how can any one say Muslims are against terrorist when after 9/11 Osoma became the most popular name in Islam ? that they cheered in the streets , now I'm not talking ALL but majority . [/B]


Green World:

There is no point of debating you, you are very very hateful and tend to generalize, if few muslims cheered 9/11 that does not mean all cheered, now, let us see who really cheered on 9/11:

''Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won't forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence....

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html


THE DANCING ISRAELIS :

Like most Americans, I was gripped by senses of profound shock, horror, revulsion, sadness, and rage as I watched the horror of September 11, 2001 unfolding live on my television screen. Watching the mass murder of thousands of innocent people live on television was the most upsetting experience of my life. How could any person of sound moral character not be enraged at witnessing this horrific act of barbarism? To read about some faraway, long-ago genocide in a newspaper or a book is distressing enough. But to actually witness the mass murders of what was, at first, believed to have been tens of thousands of innocent people is truly heart stopping and traumatic. I barely slept for two nights afterwards and suffered nightmares. Polling data would later reveal that 65% of Americans actually shed tears on 9-11.1

But not all of the eye-witnesses to the 9-11 slaughter were so saddened. On September 11, five Israeli army veterans were arrested by the FBI after several witnesses saw them "dancing", "high-fiving", and "celebrating" as they took pictures of the World Trade Center disaster from across the river in New Jersey. Steven Gordon was the lawyer who volunteered to represent the five Israelis. He was asked by a Hebrew newspaper why the five men were being detained by the FBI. Here’s what Gordon told Yediot America:
"On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located," said Gordon. "I'm not sure if they saw the twin towers collapse, but, in any event, they photographed the ruins right afterwards. One of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers… .
"Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates."

When the photos were developed, they revealed that the dancing Israelis were smiling in the foreground of the New York massacre. 3 According to ABC’s 20/20 attempted whitewash of the incident, in addition to their outrageous and highly suspicious behavior, the five also had in their possession the following items; box-cutters, European passports, and $4,700 cash hidden in a sock. 4 Why were these Israeli agents so happy about the horrible massacre that was unfolding right before their very eyes? What evil spirit could possess people who are supposed to be America's "allies", and who receive billions of dollars in financial and military aid from US taxpayers each year, to publicly rejoice as innocent people (including many American Jews) were burning to death and jumping out of 110 story buildings? Could it be that these happy Israeli army veterans were in some way linked to this monstrous attack? That’s what officials close to the investigation initially told The Bergen Record newspaper of New Jersey.

http://homepage.mac.com/ardeshir/9-11.html

[up2date]

Originally posted by Green_World
Green world:

NO, killing innocent people was never the response, neither dropping 2 tones bombs on innocent afghani and Iraqi MUSLIMS....it is the time to look at your own terrorism if you want to have rational constructive debate. Green_World, the U.S. is not a perfect place, but do you really believe the U.S. deliberately drops bombs on innocent civilians? Forget your rhetoric for a second. Stop and think about it rationally. Innocent civilians just going about their lives. Would the U.S. "drop a bomb" on them?

[KWJams]

Originally posted by Green_World
Green world:

NO, killing innocent people was never the response, neither dropping 2 tones bombs on innocent afghani and Iraqi MUSLIMS....it is the time to look at your own terrorism if you want to have rational constructive debate.

May as well debate what came first -- the chicken or the egg?

[Green_World]

Originally posted by thoss52
what a load of crap.

civilians in every war are killed , they even have a term for it , collateral damage .
green-world why do you think that innocent people where targeted ? they where not . but the tread center they were .

as for war ? grow up . its a nasty , uncontrolled act . we did our best . better then any other country in any other war .,

Green World:

You are using the same logic as the terrorist Bin laden uses, he justifies killing innocent Americans by saying that he is waging holy war...no much difference between the two .

[Green_World]

Originally posted by up2date
Green_World, the U.S. is not a perfect place, but do you really believe the U.S. deliberately drops bombs on innocent civilians? Forget your rhetoric for a second. Stop and think about it rationally. Innocent civilians just going about their lives. Would the U.S. "drop a bomb" on them?

Green World:

Oh please, leave your American self-rightous attitude for a second and tell me if you dont target civilians how come 15,000 innocent iraqi MUSLIMS have been killed so far and COUNTING ???

These sites are good start for American self-examination:

http://www.crimesofwar.org/special/Iraq/brief-justice.html

http://www.motherofevil.com

America's list of terrorism :

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/American/list.html

American War Crimes During the Gulf War :

http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis19.html

[up2date]

Originally posted by Green_World
There is no point of debating you, you are very very hateful and tend to generalize, if few muslims cheered 9/11 that does not mean all cheered, now, let us see who really cheered on 9/11:
You are right about thoss52. But the irony is you don't see it in yourself as well. You have made vast generalizations about the U.S. and Israel, most based on very narrow views and/or partial evidence.

[Green_World]

Originally posted by up2date
You are right about thoss52. But the irony is you don't see it in yourself as well. You have made vast generalizations about the U.S. and Israel, most based on very narrow views and/or partial evidence.

Green World:

are you for real ? did not you see the NUMEROUS links I provided ? thoss52 never provided a single like to support his argument ! anyway, look at the above post to find some interesting FACTS.

[up2date]

Originally posted by Green_World
Green World:

are you for real ? did not you see the NUMEROUS links I provided ? thoss52 never provided a single like to support his argument ! anyway, look at the above post to find some interesting FACTS. Yes, I am for real. Your information is twisted and misleading. If you want to discuss these things rationally, welcome to the forums. If you want to make wild accusations, please find another site.

[Captain America]

Be careful up2date. I would not want to read about some crazed Islamaniac showing up at your door with his kid strapped with explosives.

:eek:

There is no point in debating a zealot. Logic and reason, as they understand them to be, is beyond the conception of a free thinking modern man. This is evidence in the previous posts.

In Texas, we call that "Pissing up a rope."

It's pointless to try to rationalize intelligently with a culture that traditionally forces their belief and understands only force.

Perhaps, because it is only force they understand, as evidence in their murderous actions, this is the reason that force is being visited upon them now. If they were only capable of compromise and reason. Peace could be actualized. Really kind of sad, isn't it.

Oh well. Yen and Yang. There could be no good without bad. Perhaps they are playing a vital roll after all.

[Green_World]

Originally posted by up2date
Yes, I am for real. Your information is twisted and misleading. If you want to discuss these things rationally, welcome to the forums. If you want to make wild accusations, please find another site.

Oh, so when my opinions dont suit yours, then I should go and find other forums !!!!

You are confirming that the American concept of FREEDOM OF SPEECH is just a joke.

if you are going to run your forum like this, you wont last for long.

Peace be with you.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/special/Iraq/brief-justice.html

[Green_World]

Originally posted by Captain America
Be careful up2date. I would not want to read about some crazed Islamaniac showing up at your door with his kid strapped with explosives.

:eek:

There is no point in debating a zealot. Logic and reason, as they understand them to be, is beyond the conception of a free thinking modern man. This is evidence in the previous posts.

In Texas, we call that "Pissing up a rope."

It's pointless to try to rationalize intelligently with a culture that traditionally forces their belief and understands only force.

Perhaps, because it is only force they understand, as evidence in their murderous actions, this is the reason that force is being visited upon them now. If they were only capable of compromise and reason. Peace could be actualized. Really kind of sad, isn't it.

Oh well. Yen and Yang. There could be no good without bad. Perhaps they are playing a vital roll after all.

No wonder after reading this, America is the most hated nation on earth.



<Mod edit the url has been removed for violation of rules you agreed to when you joined this forum

[up2date]

Originally posted by Captain America
Be careful up2date. I would not want to read about some crazed Islamaniac showing up at your door with his kid strapped with explosives.

:eek:

There is no point in debating a zealot. Logic and reason, as they understand them to be, is beyond the conception of a free thinking modern man. This is evidence in the previous posts.

In Texas, we call that "Pissing up a rope."

It's pointless to try to rationalize intelligently with a culture that traditionally forces their belief and understands only force.

Perhaps, because it is only force they understand, as evidence in their murderous actions, this is the reason that force is being visited upon them now. If they were only capable of compromise and reason. Peace could be actualized. Really kind of sad, isn't it.

Oh well. Yen and Yang. There could be no good without bad. Perhaps they are playing a vital roll after all. You are wise, Obi-Wan, er, I mean Yoda. :D

[KWJams]

Originally posted by Green_World
Oh, so when my opinions dont suit yours, then I should go and find other forums !!!!

You are confirming that the American concept of FREEDOM OF SPEECH is just a joke.

if you are going to run your forum like this, you wont last for long.

Peace be with you.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/special/Iraq/brief-justice.html

Looking at the url that you posted I fail to see what information there is that backs up your statement concerning the freedom of speech.

I also failed to see anything sinister about some Israelis video taping the 9/11 aftermath----what a moving van with a box cutter in it and a roll of money hidden in one guys sock is supposed to prove is beyond me.

You seem to clearly have an agenda that you want to promote here and are not here to discuss issues in a rational manner.
I removed a couple of links you posted ---- not to suppress freedom of speech but because they were in direct violation of the forum rules that you agreed to when you joined.
Posting a website that has a swastika on any flag can only be interrupted as an act of hate.