Those debates America is having

[Riddley]

The debates America is having are the most gentlemanly and polite I have seen for a long time. Our own Politicians in Parliament and on the election trail are like drunken football fans compared to this. In Parliament not a week goes by without someone being sent from the chamber. There have not been any fisticuffs as far as I can remember but there have been a couple of scuffles outside the chamber in the last year.
And the Kiwi parliament is a Sunday School picnic compared to the Aussies.

[AgentM]

The debates America is having are the most gentlemanly and polite I have seen for a long time. Our own Politicians in Parliament and on the election trail are like drunken football fans compared to this. In Parliament not a week goes by without someone being sent from the chamber. There have not been any fisticuffs as far as I can remember but there have been a couple of scuffles outside the chamber in the last year.
And the Kiwi parliament is a Sunday School picnic compared to the Aussies.

Our Parliament isn't quite that bad that I know of, but the level of civility leaves something to be desired. Lots of heckling across the chamber and general immaturity. Sometimes it seems like our MPs haven't left high school :rolleyes:

[Riddley]

Yes, ours is high school exactly.

[Atticus]

It's a funny thing that American legislatures don't allow much incivility--lot's of gavel banging and "Will the gentlemen desist and take their seats" from the chair, but not much jeering.

Guess it was the fight with cane and fire-tongs back near the beginning of the Republic that did it.

[Riddley]

That sounds good, what happened?

[Atticus]

That sounds good, what happened?Lyon vs. Griswold--"an assembly of Gladiators" (near the Water Table): http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH41/Neff41.html

[gopman]

A lot of people have actually criticized the candidates for their "attacks" at each other last night (McCain even had the nerve to point at Obama!). I personally think that's taking PC to an extreme. They should absolutely talk about each other. I think they're both handling it well as you point out.

[BrokenDoors]

That sounds good, what happened?

American politicians during the 19th century had a fairly extensive history of taking out their differences with weapons. The most famous example is probably the duel between Hamilton and Burr. Aaron Burr, then Vice President, shot and killed Alexander Hamilton, former Secretary of the Treasury, in a duel. There were many other examples of duels and beatings that took place during that period. These days, aides, other members, or the police usually intervene before it progresses beyond shoving.

[AgentM]

American politicians during the 19th century had a fairly extensive history of taking out their differences with weapons. The most famous example is probably the duel between Hamilton and Burr. Aaron Burr, then Vice President, shot and killed Alexander Hamilton, former Secretary of the Treasury, in a duel. There were many other examples of duels and beatings that took place during that period. These days, aides, other members, or the police usually intervene before it progresses beyond shoving.

:lol: I've never heard of that happening in our history. "Sir, I challenge you to a duel!"

[Atticus]

American politicians during the 19th century had a fairly extensive history of taking out their differences with weapons. The most famous example is probably the duel between Hamilton and Burr. Aaron Burr, then Vice President, shot and killed Alexander Hamilton, former Secretary of the Treasury, in a duel. There were many other examples of duels and beatings that took place during that period. These days, aides, other members, or the police usually intervene before it progresses beyond shoving.Some states still have laws on the books about it. For example, in Kentucky it's specifically forbidden for a member of the legislature to challenge anyone to a duel. This law was actually invoked in recent years. :eek:

[Riddley]

Pistols at dawn would be extreme even here.
Crikey Atticus what a good (if horrifying) story. I seem to remember some guy smashing up some one else with a walking stick just before the Civil war. I might be confusing the time. I'll see what I can find.

[Atticus]

Pistols at dawn would be extreme even here.
Crikey Atticus what a good (if horrifying) story. I seem to remember some guy smashing up some one else with a walking stick just before the Civil war. I might be confusing the time. I'll see what I can find.No, that happened too, on the other side of the Capitol building: http://us-civil-war.suite101.com/article.cfm/brooks_canes_sumner

[MikeD4o7]

A lot of people have actually criticized the candidates for their "attacks" at each other last night (McCain even had the nerve to point at Obama!). I personally think that's taking PC to an extreme. They should absolutely talk about each other. I think they're both handling it well as you point out.

I agree that the debates have been as civil as you could reasonably expect. I was watching CNN's coverage of the debate, and the "attack" tone of the debate was the first thing they talked about. I thought it was very weird of them to say that, but it looks like all of the media was saying the same thing with that. I just didn't see it.

[AgentM]

I agree that the debates have been as civil as you could reasonably expect. I was watching CNN's coverage of the debate, and the "attack" tone of the debate was the first thing they talked about. I thought it was very weird of them to say that, but it looks like all of the media was saying the same thing with that. I just didn't see it.

The student politics society at my university was showing the debate before one of my classes so I caught a bit of it. It seemed very civil to me. A lot of rhetoric, but what else is new...

[steveksux]

American politicians during the 19th century had a fairly extensive history of taking out their differences with weapons. The most famous example is probably the duel between Hamilton and Burr. Aaron Burr, then Vice President, shot and killed Alexander Hamilton, former Secretary of the Treasury, in a duel. There were many other examples of duels and beatings that took place during that period. These days, aides, other members, or the police usually intervene before it progresses beyond shoving.

I had a college history class that went over that. Apparently Hamilton supplied the pistols, and doctored one of them up with a hair trigger. Thought being the single shot pistol would go off accidentally and Hamilton would be able to take his time, aim well, and dispatch Burr. Apparently Hamilton got them mixed up and ended up with the hair trigger...

That was his story anyway, never bothered to check it out for authenticity. It was way before the age of the internet.

Randy

[pragmatic]

I agree that the debates have been as civil as you could reasonably expect. I was watching CNN's coverage of the debate, and the "attack" tone of the debate was the first thing they talked about. I thought it was very weird of them to say that, but it looks like all of the media was saying the same thing with that. I just didn't see it.

.

Agree. Thought it was a reasonable debate. But was a little disappointed that the coverage seemed to evolve into an obsession with that two word comment from McCain of "that one". (But they are the media and they do have to come up with "something" to make a headline...)

The result of the debate was that it was essentially boring. Suspect that was because the current economic issue is unresolved. Both are cautious about digging in their heels until we get past the present storm.

Four weeks to go. There is lots of time for both candidates. The nastiness has only just begun....




.

[Atticus]

I had a college history class that went over that. Apparently Hamilton supplied the pistols, and doctored one of them up with a hair trigger. Thought being the single shot pistol would go off accidentally and Hamilton would be able to take his time, aim well, and dispatch Burr. Apparently Hamilton got them mixed up and ended up with the hair trigger...

That was his story anyway, never bothered to check it out for authenticity. It was way before the age of the internet.

RandyIt would appear that's not accurate. The accounts of the duel say that Hamilton intentionally wasted his first shot (a common practice--it showed courage and a desire not to do violence), but instead of shooting at the ground (which was customary), he fired above Burr into a tree behind him. Burr, not understanding Hamilton's intent, shot him in the lower abdomen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr-Hamilton_duel

[MikeD4o7]

I really liked the format of the first debate. The VP one was restrictive, and this last one was restrictive and gimmicky. In the first debate, Lehrer would throw out a question basically as an opener of an entire subject, and then would let the two debate each other directly on it with enough time to actually talk about stuff.

[Atticus]

Sorry, perhaps I spoke too soon. The source also says this: Others have attributed Hamilton's apparent misfire to the hair-triggered design of the Wogdon duelling pistols, both of which survive today. Only Hamilton, familiar with the weapons, would have known about and been able to use the hair-trigger. However, when asked by Pendleton before the duel if he would have the "hair-spring" pistol, Hamilton reportedly replied "not this time."[14] The "hair-spring" pistol provided an advantage because it took less time to fire, being more sensitive to the movement of the trigger finger.

The pistols belonged to Hamilton's brother-in-law, John Barker Church, who was a business partner of both Hamilton and Burr. He purchased the pistols in London in 1797. They had previously been used in a 1799 duel between Church and Burr, in which neither man was injured. In 1801, Hamilton's son, Philip, used them in the duel in which he died. In 1930 the pistols were sold to the Chase Manhattan Bank, now preserved by JPMorgan Chase & Co. The guns are on display in the Executive Conference center of 277 Park Avenue in Manhattan.

For the United States Bicentennial anniversary in 1976, Chase Manhattan allowed the pistols to be removed and loaned to the U.S. Bicentennial Society of Richmond. When the original pistol was examined, the concealed hair trigger was discovered.[33]

[Missouri Mule]

The debates America is having are the most gentlemanly and polite I have seen for a long time. Our own Politicians in Parliament and on the election trail are like drunken football fans compared to this. In Parliament not a week goes by without someone being sent from the chamber. There have not been any fisticuffs as far as I can remember but there have been a couple of scuffles outside the chamber in the last year.
And the Kiwi parliament is a Sunday School picnic compared to the Aussies.

Personally, I like political brawls. It brings out the true sense of the person. Our founding fathers like Jefferson, Burr, Jackson and others were a lying, conniving bunch of back stabbers who did everything under the sun to win. We like to sit these guys on some pedestal as being icons of virtue but they were as ruthless as was necessary to take down their opponent. Even one of our vice presidents, Aaron Burr gunned down Alexander Hamilton who appears on our $10 bill. Jackson was a scoundrel through and through.

I don't know where this notion came from that politicians needed to be squeaky clean and civil to one another. It is stupid and in my view undemocratic. Let the slings and arrows commence and duel to the death. We don't want some panty waiste running the most powerful office in the world. We want the toughest SOB there is to do whatever is required.

[AgentM]

I don't know where this notion came from that politicians needed to be squeaky clean and civil to one another. It is stupid and in my view undemocratic. Let the slings and arrows commence and duel to the death. We don't want some panty waiste running the most powerful office in the world. We want the toughest SOB there is to do whatever is required.

It's hard to have a proper debate or Question Period with some of the behavior in Parliament sometimes. And personally I don't vote for people to act like high school kids, I vote for them to deal with policy.

Here's a sampling of recent Parliamentary activity. Some of the exchanges later on in the video get rather heated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIircBsHZkk

[Missouri Mule]

It's hard to have a proper debate or Question Period with some of the behavior in Parliament sometimes. And personally I don't vote for people to act like high school kids, I vote for them to deal with policy.

Here's a sampling of recent Parliamentary activity. Some of the exchanges later on in the video get rather heated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIircBsHZkk

I'll watch it tomorrow but we really need to know what kind of people these are; not what they will do to their enemies behind closed doors. Let the fists and sparks fly. Better than having them vote on issues that lead to bullets flying in an ill conceived war because they are afraid to speak and act their minds.

[BrokenDoors]

:lol: I've never heard of that happening in our history. "Sir, I challenge you to a duel!"

American politicians were way, way more interesting during the 19th century. Burr, for example, later went on to organize a conspiracy to have the Louisiana Territory declare independence. He got tried for treason because of that.

[Atticus]

It's hard to have a proper debate or Question Period with some of the behavior in Parliament sometimes. And personally I don't vote for people to act like high school kids, I vote for them to deal with policy.

Here's a sampling of recent Parliamentary activity. Some of the exchanges later on in the video get rather heated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIircBsHZkkI don't know how they get ANYTHING done with that annoying music in the background. ;) :flowers:

[Riddley]

That most recent debate was kind of odd, with McCain walking around like he was looking for something. Still no one hit anyone else, so things have improved.

[AgentM]

I don't know how they get ANYTHING done with that annoying music in the background. ;) :flowers:

Yeah, sorry about that, that was the best video I could find showcasing Canadian Parliamentary activity. They are rather sparse on YouTube ;)

[patrickt]

A. The last political debate in the U.S. was probably Lincoln-Douglas.

B. "American politicians were way, way more interesting during the 19th century. Burr, for example, later went on to organize a conspiracy to have the Louisiana Territory declare independence. He got tried for treason because of that." Not really. The only difference is that now they wouldn't be tried for treason.

[Soren]

No. I think some idiot made it up, and you're gleefully passing it on. Did you know Obama was a Muslim?

you need to pay more attention. You are almost half a dozen bogus scandals behind the curve.

RandyI agree. If you're going to peddle manure at least peddle fresh manure.McCain betrayed his country for favourable treatment by his captors. Whatta patriot!I don't want him as president, but this claim is false also.Get it tattooed right to your forehead. That's a real patriot! Never leave home without it.That'd be a sight to behold. Perhaps we'd end up with oneupmanship culminating in a candidate tattooing his entire body to resemble the Constitution.


A. The last political debate in the U.S. was probably Lincoln-Douglas.Exaggerating slightly aren't we?

[rjamortega]

So, I suppose it can be said, as far as the world political stage is concerned, American politics speaks softly but carries a big stick.