A Wal-Mart Economy: Investment Over Labor

[azov]

Job growth trends are ominous. Over 2.3 million jobs have been lost in the last three years, leaving over 8 million unemployed in the worst job recovery in American history. For the first time in U.S. history, there has been no net job creation in the more than two years since the recession officially ended. The current recovery has not produced enough jobs to keep pace with the new jobs needed - 150,000 per month - to employ first-time hires. Those who are hired are increasingly paid less and are hired as temporary workers. Not since the mid-1940s have we lost jobs for three years in a row.

Much of the job loss can be traced to the nation's extraordinary increases in productivity. However, it has coimpounded a new wave of offshoring. Jobs have moved abroad, including those in call centers and manufacturing, but also higher-value jobs in information technology, engineering, tax preparation,insurance, legal and financial analysis, architecture, accounting and medicine.

This nation confronts a potential hemorrhaging of higher value jobs that is staggering - a critical threat to middle-class stability. A blind faith in free-trade fundamentalism, with its view that retraining will solve everything, is misplaced. What does the student or displaced worker train for now?

Current trends in immigration also jeopardize middle-class stability. Illegal immigration doubled in the 1990s. Over 10 million illegal immigrants now flood the U.S. job market. The threat from these and legal immigrant workers is no longer limited to lower paying U.S. jobs. Temporary work visas are granted to foreign engineers and tech workers as corporations providie the justification for this convenient alternative to training or to adequately paying American workers. This immigrant population, in turn, puts fiscal strains on local and state governments. Foreign-born workers make up 11 percent of the U.S. population and 14 percent of the work force. That is more half of the total work force growth from 1996 to 2002.

Then there is the additional downward wage pressure of fast-food and low-price merchandise chains like Wal-Mart, the nation's
largest employer, and of other big-box retailers. These employers often do not pay a living wage, offer only limited, if any, health care coverage and have successfully discouraged unionization. This creates a situation in which the workers are often subsidized by public tax and medical benefits, a further drain on publicly-supported services and hence on the middle-class taxpayer. We have degenerated from a General Motors economy to a Wal-Mart economy. Fifty years later, if what is good for Wal-Mart is good for the country - Good Luck, America!

Rather than acknowledging and trying to alleviate the longer-term dowanward economic trends, our governments at all levels look the other way and hype the economic data. Washington has been captured by business interests, multi-national corpororations, Wall Street financiers and other wealthy contributors. Its initiatives now overwhelmingly favor these establishments. The basic economic strategy follows the big business playbook, which holds that rewarding INVESTMENT rather than LABOR empowers economic growth.

Look at the record regarding the average citizen. An astounding 43 percent of the recent $1.7 trillion in tax cuts went to the top 5 percent of taxpayers, the same American households already enjoying rapid pay increases and healthy pay increases and healthy returns on investments. There is a $400 billion defense budget, plus a $160 billion pre-emptive war in Iraq. New government regulations may cut overtime pay. A proposed law would relax corporate pension practices, now underfunded at a record $350 billion. We have a refusal to allow real competition in the pharmaceutical industry. There is the shameless and unchecked doling out of federal tax dollars by Congress to fund more than 8,000 pork projects for its members. We have a projected $521 billion budget defecit this year. There are personal and corporate subsidies, tax loopholes, tax shelters, and offshore corporate tax evasions. Diminishing corporate payments as a percentage of total federal tax revenues have dropped from 50 percvent in 1941 to 10 percent now.

-- "The Washington Spectator," March 15, 2004, pp. 2-3.

[Heathcliff]

Originally posted by azov

Then there is the additional downward wage pressure of fast-food and low-price merchandise chains like Wal-Mart, the nation's
largest employer, and of other big-box retailers.

I look upon those jobs as the good jobs of today. The Super Family Dollar selling 100% Chinese goods is the next step to dethrone Wal-Mart. It will get worse. I see locally that Jewel Foods and Home Depot are moving to self service checkout to get rid of more jobs. I went to a just opened Home Depot, and there was no human operated checkout line. Creepy.

[jamesrage]

I like human cashiers you can argue over the price of an Item and if they have doubts they can send someone to check out the price.Self check out line are not that conveniant

[San Antonio]

Just remember: every dollar that you spend in a Wal-Mart goes into a Walton family member's pocket, NOT back into the community you spent it in. Try and find an American Made product in Wal-Mart. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest is the new WM mantra and along with cheap prices come low wage jobs with no benefits for the majority of the workforce. Is this the future of America? It will be unless you take a stand and buy from small merchants or from local stores.

[blueactive]

Just answer me this;

How much more should we be prepared to pay for our goods to "protect" American jobs?

You do not mind "outsourcing" when it is foreign companies coming over here. Like Honda and Toyota and opening plants in the U.S and exporting cars back to Japan.

If you are going to insist that American companies cannot lower labor costs by using foreign workers then you are saying that we should all pay more for our goods and services made here. It makes sense to say that foreign companies should not be permitted to hire American or other foreign workers either, since it screws over the native workers in their country. We should expect to pay higher prices for imported goods as well.

[temp1]

In 75 years we will be lamenting the loss of Walmart as part of the fabric of America, but we will survive.

[Dave]

Just remember: every dollar that you spend in a Wal-Mart goes into a Walton family member's pocket, NOT back into the community you spent it in. Try and find an American Made product in Wal-Mart. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest is the new WM mantra and along with cheap prices come low wage jobs with no benefits for the majority of the workforce. Is this the future of America? It will be unless you take a stand and buy from small merchants or from local stores.


You are 100% completely wrong. Thank you for your input. Wisdom of this nature is scarey. :confused:

List:

Bread
milk
eggs
meat
canned goods
Auto tires
oil filters
air filters
some clothing


Need I name more??

Thanks

Dave

[Chelle]

Oh cripes. :p

http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8631&page=2

Chelle

[Chelle]

Just remember: every dollar that you spend in a Wal-Mart goes into a Walton family member's pocket, NOT back into the community you spent it in. Try and find an American Made product in Wal-Mart. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest is the new WM mantra and along with cheap prices come low wage jobs with no benefits for the majority of the workforce. Is this the future of America? It will be unless you take a stand and buy from small merchants or from local stores.

What kind of car do you drive? Where was your alarm clock made? How about those jeans? Shirt? Hair dryer? Electric fan? Television?? Radio/stereo/computer... the list goes on and on.....


Chelle

[beg your pardon]

It would be impossible to demand that everything you own or use be made in America.

[Demon of Light]

Heh, guess recent job growth numbering 650,000 jobs in two months really puts a downer on this whole topic.

[MuffnMan]

Wal-Mart put our main source of fun (as Linn Countyers) out of business. And now its expanding across the street from where I work and close to where I attend school.... I weep for the future.

[Dave]

Wal-Mart put our main source of fun (as Linn Countyers) out of business. And now its expanding across the street from where I work and close to where I attend school.... I weep for the future.

Why do you think Wal-Mart is a bad thing? Expanding is a good thing. That means more jobs. For just a second, don't look at Wal-mart as an evil empire, but as a small business that has done a lot of things right. That is what Wal-Mart is, a small business a large scale.

People claim it is the goal of Wal-Mart to destroy the small business. I feel this is far from the truth. I could name many small and large companies that have made there riches off of Wal-Mart. I could tell you about Jo blow's auto shop who supplies his customers with oil, washer fluid, filters, and tires from Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart provides them at lower cost than he can by wholesale. Now it can be argued that we do not play on the same playing field, but it can also be argued that we share that field with our competitors. It's not something we have to do.

Take the time, learn what you hate.....

Dave

[atshvets513]

I like cheap stuff. I'm a student with absolutely no disposable income, so low prices are a welcome sight. Tons of people are going to love these decreases in price.

I have argued the topic on using cheap overseas labor before on another forum, honestly, this is just some scare-mongering.

[blueactive]

Further proof of the sheer nuttiness of liberals. Wal-Mart provides good quality at a low price, employs a million people and is the bad guy for employing the poor and selling goods to them...The people they want to protect are the small business owners offering a limited selection at a higher price.....Go figure.

[atshvets513]

Wal-Mart provides good quality at a low priceEspecially video games :) .

[USA-1]

Walmart came to my small town a few years ago. At that time there were many stores with good prices and service, healthy competition. Walmart put the others out of business by undercutting everyone, even selling at a loss. Today Walmart is the only game in town. Now that the competition is gone their prices are not so great anymore. The jobs they created are minimum wage jobs with meager benefits. Someday every town will have their own Walmart, their mainstreets will wither and their quality of life fade away.
Before they forced the others out of business, I avoided Walmart and even paid a little more to support local merchants that have given so much to the community. I have no choice but to shop at walmart now. It's all we have.

[Dave]

Walmart came to my small town a few years ago. At that time there were many stores with good prices and service, healthy competition. Walmart put the others out of business by undercutting everyone, even selling at a loss. Today Walmart is the only game in town. Now that the competition is gone their prices are not so great anymore. The jobs they created are minimum wage jobs with meager benefits. Someday every town will have their own Walmart, their mainstreets will wither and their quality of life fade away.
Before they forced the others out of business, I avoided Walmart and even paid a little more to support local merchants that have given so much to the community. I have no choice but to shop at walmart now. It's all we have.

Given a choice the public will always go where the value is at. The small businesses of your town did not go belly-up because people liked to do business with them. Wal-Mart answers the call to save. Big Bob's retail could do the same, yet they stand firm all the way until they close, then blame wal-mart. Sure, I miss all the mom & pop shops, but they have to be willing to change with times. I have a good friend who owned a service station. It made him a ton of money. The station was on mall property and they wanted him to upgrade through remodel. Cost would have been $80,000 which the mall was willing to pay half. He refused. They shut him down and built another service station which is still there. He relocated and was out of business in two years. Who hurt him? I say he hurt himself.

Change takes place with or without you. It's always better to change with you.

Dave

[blueactive]

Walmart came to my small town a few years ago. At that time there were many stores with good prices and service, healthy competition. Walmart put the others out of business by undercutting everyone, even selling at a loss. Today Walmart is the only game in town. Now that the competition is gone their prices are not so great anymore. The jobs they created are minimum wage jobs with meager benefits. Someday every town will have their own Walmart, their mainstreets will wither and their quality of life fade away.
Before they forced the others out of business, I avoided Walmart and even paid a little more to support local merchants that have given so much to the community. I have no choice but to shop at walmart now. It's all we have.

You are fogetting that the purchasing power of a place like Wal-Mart created thousands of jobs in other sectors like construction, computers, manufacturing and transportation. HomeDepot is clobbering mom and pop hardware stores but you don't see the same complaints. Wal-Mart also created thousands of millionaires who invested in the comapany at its beginning. Wal-Mart is also opening locations overseas, that is foreign capital that comes back here.
You can choose between a fluid dynamic economy that strives to increase value and reduce cost with some disruption or you can have a stagnant motionless economy that restricts innovation for the sake of a nostalgia, with little disruption of the market. The biggest losers in the market place against Wal-Mart was Sears and K-Mart. At one time it was Sears that was accused of killing off smaller competitors, back in 1900. As soon as you reach the top as Sears once did your days are numbered until you get knocked off. Someone will come along one day and knock off Wal-Mart as well. And then people will say that Wal-Mart used to be the economic center of their communities until Store X came along and drove them out of business, boo-hoo.
When the automobile was introduced there was this great hue and cry about the death of the horse livery business and the threat this posed to the American economy, you don't see anybody but Ralph Nader wanting to go back to those days do you? The Fisher Body company used to make horse carriages, now they make Cadillacs and Pontiacs. Either you adapt, sell the market what it wants, or you get pushed aside. Once you open a business you are not entitled to a permanent place in people's pockets, just because you've been around a while or are quaint and affectionately thought of.

[USA-1]

Walmart changes little towns and in my opinion, not for the better. Eventually they will be a complete monopoly and then we all will pay the price.

[atshvets513]

Trade barriers often mean economic stagnation and death. Europe is learning this the hard way.

[Dave]

Walmart changes little towns and in my opinion, not for the better. Eventually they will be a complete monopoly and then we all will pay the price.


Could you please expand on this idea of yours? I do not question that wal-mart has grown to the point where they are only a hop, skip, and a jump from any street corner. A monopoly? I do not believe we will ever have the power to tell Target, K-Mart, Costco, or anyone who wishes to compete with Wal-mart, where they can build, what they can sell, or at what price they should sell it at. If they could, than Wal-Mart would have a monopoly. Wal-Mart wants competetion. They thrive better with it. If you look at the numbers a store produces in sales, the stores that have a Target or K-mart across street out sell the store that only have themselfs to compete with.

I don't think your arguement holds water......

Dave

[USA-1]

I do believe they are on their way to a monopoly just as The oil companies are. It is the natural evolution of big businesss. Walmart does it better than anyone else. They are brilliant and better business people than anyone else. By paying low wages they can invest that money back into building more Walmarts. Small business can't compete no matter what they do. As for putting K-marts and Targets out of business they already did that in my area. In this market area Walmart is a monopoly. There is no competition and none on the horizon. Progress is not always good.

[atshvets513]

I do believe they are on their way to a monopoly just as The oil companies are. It is the natural evolution of big businesss. Walmart does it better than anyone else. They are brilliant and better business people than anyone else. By paying low wages they can invest that money back into building more Walmarts. Small business can't compete no matter what they do. As for putting K-marts and Targets out of business they already did that in my area. In this market area Walmart is a monopoly. There is no competition and none on the horizon. Progress is not always good.
Walmart maybe large and mighty, but it's not omnipotent. There will come a time that someone else will come and kick their butts. As for their ultra-low prices, that's not 100% true, their video games are actually higher priced than most people think. Other places will kick their butts in one or two products and if you get together enough of those little companies, then you'll that the big and bad walmart isn't as almighty as some have believed. In a competitive capitalist society, walmart is A company, not THE company.

[green lantern]

wal mart does have good prices, i give them that, but it is at the expense of their own employees and other stores. wal mart has several lawsuits agaisnt it for union busting activities, for tampering with employee time cards, for making employees work off the clock. they use their size to bully suppliers as well. they are getting close to monopoly standards.

[timlea]

Could you please expand on this idea of yours? I do not question that wal-mart has grown to the point where they are only a hop, skip, and a jump from any street corner. A monopoly? I do not believe we will ever have the power to tell Target, K-Mart, Costco, or anyone who wishes to compete with Wal-mart, where they can build, what they can sell, or at what price they should sell it at. If they could, than Wal-Mart would have a monopoly. Wal-Mart wants competetion. They thrive better with it. If you look at the numbers a store produces in sales, the stores that have a Target or K-mart across street out sell the store that only have themselfs to compete with.

I don't think your arguement holds water......

Dave

As far as jobs are concerned, you cannot say a Wal-Mart job could compete with a maunufacturing position. Pay is low, benefits are crap, and turnover is high. Yet there is plenty of resources in the low income communites they build stores in, to assure a supply of employees. When we look at job growth . . we need to look at high paying/high benefit/America improving jobs. . . not Wal-Mart jobs . . . not K-Mart jobs . . . not Menards jobs . . not Piggly Wiggly jobs . . . not Home Depot jobs . . . Not Hardees . . Not McDonalds . . . Not Dairy Queen . . . I could go on.

If the job market is improving and the economy is improving . . . what are those jobs that are newly available . . . do they pay more? What is driving the economy forward? Is it benefiting the worker?

[green lantern]

As far as jobs are concerned, you cannot say a Wal-Mart job could compete with a maunufacturing position. Pay is low, benefits are crap, and turnover is high. Yet there is plenty of resources in the low income communites they build stores in, to assure a supply of employees. When we look at job growth . . we need to look at high paying/high benefit/America improving jobs. . . not Wal-Mart jobs . . . not K-Mart jobs . . . not Menards jobs . . not Piggly Wiggly jobs . . . not Home Depot jobs . . . Not Hardees . . Not McDonalds . . . Not Dairy Queen . . . I could go on.

If the job market is improving and the economy is improving . . . what are those jobs that are newly available . . . do they pay more? What is driving the economy forward? Is it benefiting the worker?i would agree with you, a job at k mart or wal mart is not comparable to a job at a ford engine plant. most jobs in my area start in the 7.50 to 8.50 range. these are manufacturing jobs. i would say this is in part due to most places not being unionized, these folks take what is given, low wages, low benefits, work at these places for a short time, and move on. alot of companies preach about building relationships with their suppliers, and their customers, but rarely anymore do they seem to care about the ones who do the work that make them successfull, the american worker. in the long run, this will come back to bite them in the arse, as with a lack of good paying jobs, people will not be able to afford the goods and services these companies supply. in order to make money, you have to invest money, and invest in more than machinery and reseach and developement. invest in your employees.

[timlea]

Unfortunately you are correct on many levels. Technology can replace a factory worker as easisly as it can replace a cashier (have you tried self check out yet?). There are robots that can build cars, but there isn't a robot to put Wal-Mart's crappy, Chinese made, volume purchased merchandise on the shelf. Sooner or later there will be, which adds to Wal-mart executives' pocket, allowing them to build more stores that won't give anyone a poorly paid Wal-Mart job . . . making the situation even worse for the communites they transform; because now the low income individuals who were buying goods in the first place on their meager Wal-Mart income, won't have a Wal-mart, to have a job at, to spend it there. Of course Wal-Mart shoppers are not only Wal-Mart employees . . . the employees are just a drop in the bucket when it comes to their overall base of customers. Dollars saved eliminating employees, will out weigh the potential customer base potential employees, and technology will make that possible.

[Dave]

Unfortunately you are correct on many levels. Technology can replace a factory worker as easisly as it can replace a cashier (have you tried self check out yet?). There are robots that can build cars, but there isn't a robot to put Wal-Mart's crappy, Chinese made, volume purchased merchandise on the shelf. Sooner or later there will be, which adds to Wal-mart executives' pocket, allowing them to build more stores that won't give anyone a poorly paid Wal-Mart job . . . making the situation even worse for the communites they transform; because now the low income individuals who were buying goods in the first place on their meager Wal-Mart income, won't have a Wal-mart, to have a job at, to spend it there. Of course Wal-Mart shoppers are not only Wal-Mart employees . . . the employees are just a drop in the bucket when it comes to their overall base of customers. Dollars saved eliminating employees, will out weigh the potential customer base potential employees, and technology will make that possible.


I think I'm correct in stating you're not a Wal-Mart fan. :lol: Yet, I bet you reap the rewards of EDLP at your local wal-mart every week.

Your pay concerns I could argue with you about, but you wouldn't believe me. I make far more as an hourly employee at Wal-Mart than I ever could as a factory worker. I've done both, trust me. ;)

You sound like ex-employee with an ax to grind. Have you ever had the pleasure of doing time at Wal-Mart. Try it, see for yourself.

Dave

[tuwaqachi]

Walmart came to my small town a few years ago. At that time there were many stores with good prices and service, healthy competition. Walmart put the others out of business by undercutting everyone, even selling at a loss. Today Walmart is the only game in town. Now that the competition is gone their prices are not so great anymore. The jobs they created are minimum wage jobs with meager benefits. Someday every town will have their own Walmart, their mainstreets will wither and their quality of life fade away.
Before they forced the others out of business, I avoided Walmart and even paid a little more to support local merchants that have given so much to the community. I have no choice but to shop at walmart now. It's all we have.

Not to mention other effects, such as decreased housing value due to businesses closing up and moving out, increase in the property taxes of those who dare to stay (since larger businesses are cut pretty sweet deals by municipalities and the money has to made up somewhere), increased burden on community resources such as unemployment compensation and healthcare costs (Wal-Mart offers no such benefits like healthcare), families that have their incomes cut sharply and thus both parents need to work, letting children be raised by the street, etc.

WalMart seems to have the same effect on local towns as clear cutting has on forests, but most people cannot, or will not, see beyond the purchase price.

[timlea]

I think I'm correct in stating you're not a Wal-Mart fan. :lol: Yet, I bet you reap the rewards of EDLP at your local wal-mart every week.

Your pay concerns I could argue with you about, but you wouldn't believe me. I make far more as an hourly employee at Wal-Mart than I ever could as a factory worker. I've done both, trust me. ;)

You sound like ex-employee with an ax to grind. Have you ever had the pleasure of doing time at Wal-Mart. Try it, see for yourself.

Dave

Never . . although I did a stint a Pamida. I've been in retail for a dozen years . . .

A Wallyworld will close a Pamida in a year if it's built nearby. (Pamida is a midwest outfit for those uninfomed).

What factory do you have near by and what do they pay? I'm sure it is not what a papermill job does in the Midwest . . . even if it is only summers during university . . . it paid twice as much. . . . plus overtime (which retail doesn't even allow you to reach over 40 hours a week (yet they employ enough part time folks to cover the gap)). If you work at minimum forty hours the company is required according to their by-laws to give you those benefits . . . which is why you will never work fourty hours a week . . . asked to go home before you hit that detrimental mark . . . .

Anyone whom has worked retail should know this is the benchmark. Get ya while we have ya. . . work over 40 hours . . . get a nice letter of reprieve . . . Do it again . . . your canned.

[Dave]

What factory do you have near by and what do they pay? I'm sure it is not what a papermill job does in the Midwest . . . even if it is only summers during university . . . it paid twice as much. . . . plus overtime (which retail doesn't even allow you to reach over 40 hours a week (yet they employ enough part time folks to cover the gap)). If you work at minimum forty hours the company is required according to their by-laws to give you those benefits . . . which is why you will never work fourty hours a week . . . asked to go home before you hit that detrimental mark . . . .

Anyone whom has worked retail should know this is the benchmark. Get ya while we have ya. . . work over 40 hours . . . get a nice letter of reprieve . . . Do it again . . . your canned.

All I can say is you're not talking about wal-mart. Full benefits for wal-mart employees start at 28 hours a week. There are things with our benefits that could be better, but somethings are the best I've ever had. I'd say that's true with anywhere you work.

Overtime is a issue. Just not good business to pay time and a half for what you can get done at a straight time rate. With that stated, I'd like to point out I average 50+ hours a week. I like to think it's because I'm so darn good at what I do, but the truth is our market is slim in the hiring of good people.

Factories in my area include, HON the worlds second largest office furnture maker, GPC a grain processing company, Monsanto the maker of many things, but the best known may be Orthal weed killer and Heinz, you know ketch-up. Rates of pay for these places vary.

HON starts at $9.50 an hour non-union
GPC starts at 10+ an hour union
Monsanto starts at 10+ an hour union
Heinz starts at I believe 14+ an hour, but you have to be a temp to hire for three years before they'll even consider you. union

Wal-mart starts at, well I started at $7.75 an hour three years ago. I'd now take a cut in pay to work for any of the above companies, but as stated, I'm darn good at what I do. ;) I am still an hourly employee, but only by choice.


Dave

[Blueangel]

Heinz starts at I believe 14+ an hour, but you have to be a temp to hire for three years before they'll even consider you. union

Wal-mart starts at, well I started at $7.75 an hour three years ago. I'd now take a cut in pay to work for any of the above companies, but as stated, I'm darn good at what I do. ;) I am still an hourly employee, but only by choice.


DaveThe biggest Heinz plant in Europe is two miles away from me and it's probably the best employer in the area. UK employment law means you have to be hired permanantly or dismissed after a 13 week trial period, and Heinz still has the best benefits and pension scheme around.

Walmart, on the other hand, is a dirty word since they came to my town three years ago. They have consistantly tried to refuse trade union access and still refuse to recognise British trade unions, which is totally against the law here.
They've also tried to willfully ignore the European Working Time Directive and have been called to task on this by the Government. The Directive states that employees cannot be forced to work more than a 48hr working week, unless they specifically sign an opt out form. This form can be cancelled by the employee with a week's notice. Walmart have consistantly refused to acknowledge this practise that is EU law!
Many of the British staff, formerly employed by Asda before the Walmart take over, have walked out of their jobs as a result.

One of the strangest knock on effects of Walmart's buy out of the British Asda group, is the effect it's had on the British recording industry. Asda used to buy one of the benchmark music distributors, whose sales results went towards making up the UK charts. But Walmart has refused to stock all new releases because they have brought over some of their censorship ideals with them. The result is, their recording revenue has plummeted and they've lost their standing as a chart contributor.

[Dave]

Blueangel-

You don't need to tell me how much Wal-Mart is hated, I live it every day. My question has always been why. Is it solely based on how big they are? I don't think their in any hurry to change that. I think if you step away from the situation and look at Wal-Mart as a company making money for you, you'll gain some insight.

1) Wal-Mart would never ignore any law. The may try to change it. They may try to work with or around it, but trust me, ignoring it they'd never do. Just to costly.

2) I can not speak for unions in the UK or the laws that govern the companies that wish to thrive in a free market. What I will tell you is Wal-Mart is not anti union, we're pro associate. Wal-Mart feels we can provide better without unions. Every associate has a voice and is allowed to voice it through proper channels. If someone so chose, they could talk with the president of the company today in regaurds to anything that they want to discuss. We call it open door policy.

3) Yes, Wal-Mart censors many things. The only thing I have to say on this, is who should decide what a company sells. Should Wal-Mart live and die by their standards and morals or yours? Should anyone have the right to tell them what to sell? If they wanted to sell nothing but sour pickel juice in little squirt bottles, who does it hurt? I see a far greater crime in a someone tring to force their morals by demanding they either sell or not sell something.

JMHO's

Thanks

Dave

[Blueangel]

3) Yes, Wal-Mart censors many things. The only thing I have to say on this, is who should decide what a company sells. Should Wal-Mart live and die by their standards and morals or yours? Should anyone have the right to tell them what to sell? If they wanted to sell nothing but sour pickel juice in little squirt bottles, who does it hurt? I see a far greater crime in a someone tring to force their morals by demanding they either sell or not sell something.

JMHO's

Thanks

DaveI'd say that this company has an obligation to respect market forces.
I vote with my purse and have refused to shop at their UK branches since they refused to stock the last Radiohead album on it's day of release. In their infinate wisdom, they had decided that the first track (my sig line is from that track) was anti-Bush. Pre-release orders meant that the album went straight to No.1 on the release date.
Not the best sound economic policy :rolleyes:

[timlea]

Blueangel-

You don't need to tell me how much Wal-Mart is hated, I live it every day. My question has always been why. Is it solely based on how big they are? I don't think their in any hurry to change that. I think if you step away from the situation and look at Wal-Mart as a company making money for you, you'll gain some insight.

1) Wal-Mart would never ignore any law. The may try to change it. They may try to work with or around it, but trust me, ignoring it they'd never do. Just to costly.

2) I can not speak for unions in the UK or the laws that govern the companies that wish to thrive in a free market. What I will tell you is Wal-Mart is not anti union, we're pro associate. Wal-Mart feels we can provide better without unions. Every associate has a voice and is allowed to voice it through proper channels. If someone so chose, they could talk with the president of the company today in regaurds to anything that they want to discuss. We call it open door policy.

3) Yes, Wal-Mart censors many things. The only thing I have to say on this, is who should decide what a company sells. Should Wal-Mart live and die by their standards and morals or yours? Should anyone have the right to tell them what to sell? If they wanted to sell nothing but sour pickel juice in little squirt bottles, who does it hurt? I see a far greater crime in a someone tring to force their morals by demanding they either sell or not sell something.

JMHO's

Thanks

Dave

As an employee whom thinks that Wal-Mart is pro-associate . . . what do you make of the recent class action suit due to the undeniable fact that they don't promote women as they do men. . . ?

I'm not going after your principles here . . . you love your job and are good at it . . . that is a feat in almost any field. You are also willing to put your nads on the line to defend the company you work for . . . which is incredibly respectable unless it is regulated by company rules and you signed off on the idea that you arn't allowed to publicly say anything negative . . . I really want to know, as an employee . . . how do you react, not only to this lawsuit, but also the growing hatred for Wal-Mart?

[timlea]

1) Wal-Mart would never ignore any law. The may try to change it. They may try to work with or around it, but trust me, ignoring it they'd never do. Just to costly.



Just another quick remark about this: A local communtiy was dead set against a Wal-mart being built in their city. They began building a less than a mile away in a township . . .

partially this is happening because communities have not worked together. The other is Wal-Mart circumvented the comminites want by building a store nearby. To me, this seems like an F-U to the aforementioned community.

Just a thought.

[Dave]

As an employee whom thinks that Wal-Mart is pro-associate . . . what do you make of the recent class action suit due to the undeniable fact that they don't promote women as they do men. . . ?

I'm not going after your principles here . . . you love your job and are good at it . . . that is a feat in almost any field. You are also willing to put your nads on the line to defend the company you work for . . . which is incredibly respectable unless it is regulated by company rules and you signed off on the idea that you arn't allowed to publicly say anything negative . . . I really want to know, as an employee . . . how do you react, not only to this lawsuit, but also the growing hatred for Wal-Mart?

Yes!! I think you some what understand me. I am truely lucky to have a job I love. I look forward to going to work each day and actually miss it when I off. How sick is that! :eek: I know little of the law suit, except to state that some feel woman are not treated fairly. My wal-mart has a man store manager, 11 assistant managers with one being a man. Our co manager is a woman and my direct boss is a woman. I can't speak on their pay, but I can tell women do this work better. For what ever reason, they're just better.

JMHO

Dave

[timlea]

I just saw some stuff on the news about Wal-Mart and this class action lawsuit. I'll try to find it and post it for everyone.

[timlea]

That was easy to find:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-06-22-walmart-class-action_x.htm

what do ya think?

[Dave]

That was easy to find:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-06-22-walmart-class-action_x.htm

what do ya think?


Again, I know little of this lawsuit. If Wal-Mart is innocent I'm sure we'll pay millions. If Wal-Mart is guilty, I'm sure we'll pay millions more. I have only been with Wal-Mart for three years. I can tell you with no doubt, this is not our practice. Was it at one time, I do not know.

Dave

[Dave]

I'd say that this company has an obligation to respect market forces. :rolleyes:

I'd say Wal-Mart's greatest obligation is to hold fast and strong to their own morals in the realization that they are the greatest force in the market place. ;)

Dave

[Blueangel]

I'd say Wal-Mart's greatest obligation is to hold fast and strong to their own morals in the realization that they are the greatest force in the market place. ;)
But they're not over here. Tesco are!

More to the point, I strongly object to having a companies 'morals' stuffed down my neck when I'm only doing my grocery shopping.
Many Brits are all to aware that the Walmart 'morals' are alien to our culture. How can they censor music but sell guns?!! Ok...that's the US arm of the organisation and they can't get away with it over here, but their entire attitude has seen Asda lose it's top spot in the UK economy.

[timlea]

Has anyone ever been in a Wal-Mart that was not cluttered and dirty? I've been in plenty . . . one of the many reasons I do not shop there. K-mart is the same way. I'm sure this is due to the volume buying . . . each store is overwhelmed with products based on their store sales. . . . yet I can walk into a Target or a Shopko and it is clean and well organized. What exactly is the difference is their business strategies? Why is a Target well organized and clean and Wal-Mart not? Is it a indication of the employees they hire? The corporate culture? The fact they volume by with rarely discounting over there discounted buying prices ( . . . a fire sale . . . to take a loss just to get rid of merchandise)?

[Dave]

But they're not over here. Tesco are!

More to the point, I strongly object to having a companies 'morals' stuffed down my neck when I'm only doing my grocery shopping.
Many Brits are all to aware that the Walmart 'morals' are alien to our culture. How can they censor music but sell guns?!! Ok...that's the US arm of the organisation and they can't get away with it over here, but their entire attitude has seen Asda lose it's top spot in the UK economy.


Again, who's morals should apply. If you opened a store would accept me telling you what you can and can not sell? I think not. We all live and die by are chooses. Why should Wal-Mart be any different?

Dave

[Blueangel]

Again, who's morals should apply. If you opened a store would accept me telling you what you can and can not sell? I think not. We all live and die by are chooses. Why should Wal-Mart be any different?I was thinking about this last night as I completed the waste reports at work.
Every night, ham and mixed leaf sandwiches are on the waste list, yet every night I have people asking if we stock fresh bread, beer, coffee and tea bags.
We sell milk, so I can't see why we don't stock coffee and tea...except for the fact that a large part of our profit comes from the on site coffee machines ;)
The law prevents us from selling alcohol because the site can only be accessed from the motorway, and it could encourage drink driving.

This an example of the three basic rules of good business. Supply, demand and profit margins.

As a consumer, I strongly resent going to purchase a CD in a record department that I've been using for years, only to be told that the new American owners object to the album title of my favourite chart topping British band. Since when has 'Hail To The Thief' been worthy of censorship? :rolleyes:

When a multi-national corporation expands into the UK and employs British staff, they MUST operate by OUR rules and OUR laws. Their morals don't come into it!
Our morals and laws state that Walmart can't sell guns, as they do in the US.
They still sell alcohol and pornography, so why not a CD because it might be anti-Bush? Where's the morality in that?!

[Dave]

[QUOTE=Blueangel Since when has 'Hail To The Thief' been worthy of censorship? :rolleyes:
When a multi-national corporation expands into the UK and employs British staff, they MUST operate by OUR rules and OUR laws. Their morals don't come into it!
Our morals and laws state that Walmart can't sell guns, as they do in the US.
They still sell alcohol and pornography, so why not a CD because it might be anti-Bush? Where's the morality in that?![/QUOTE]


"hail to the Thief" is not worthy of censorship? I agree with you, maybe, Ive never heard it. It sounds like a good song though. Anyway it's not censorship to state as an owner what you'll sell and what you'll not sell. Just like you company's coffee and tea. It's there right not to sell anything.

When a company expands into the UK, their morals don't come into it? :sorry: I like your writing blueangel, but you're wrong. There's just no other way for me to say it. You wouldn't go to a chinese resturant and expect home cooking would you?

PORNOGRAPHY!!! Wal-Mart sells that in the UK? Not so in the states. Maybe they're censoring me. :eek:

Dave

[DanDubs]

There were key steps that Wal-Mart took way back in the day to be where they are now.

A) Wal-Mart put there stores in rural areas when they started. This might not seem like a good move, because there are less possible customers in farm country than in suburban areas and urban areas. But in rural areas, the drive to a Wal-Mart is almost always worth the bargain. If I ran out of cereal in my town, a Boston suburb, I wouldn't think of driving 6 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart to get it. I'd go to the convenience store down the street. I don't want to deal with traffic just to get cereal that's 50 cents cheaper. The rural areas, people who generally have lower incomes can drive quickly to Wal-Mart, and will rely on it for cheap products, both big purchases and daily necessities.

B) They grow like a disease, they started slow, but now are expanding rapidly. Wal-Mart has been in business for about 40 years. They only became huge in the past few years because they were patient. They never built Wal-Mart stores far away from there distribution centers. Now that they patiently saved money in distribution, they can now afford to expand seemingly exponentially.

C) Taking into mind competitive advantages A and B, they were the one of the first, if not, the first to invest in C, real-time inventory tracking. When distribution and in sync with inventory, that products go straight from the delivery truck to the store shelf. Wal-Marts have less storage space than their competitors.

And capitalism being capitalism, you make money to earn money, and The five heirs to Sam Walton's company are now worth $20billion each.

Now people in this forum will have differing opinions on Wal-Mart playing hardball with unions, importing so much crap from China, where working conditions are often deplorable, and other controversial Wal-Mart issues, but Wal-Mart wouldn't be where it was if they hadn't made some genuinely smart decisions.

Personally, I think Wal-Mart is will grow as long as the number of low-density development in the US grows. Wal-Mart doesn't need to think of any new strategy to stay on top just as long more people move into spread out development in the burbs and rural areas. Wal-Mart will build more stores to satisfy the demand.

[Dave]

Dan,

I just wanted to state, you wrote that out very well.

Thank You,

Dave

[DanDubs]

Thanks Dave. I am not a big Wal-Mart fan, but some of Wal-Mart's success was because Walton and Company made smart business decisions.