Michael Vick

[gopman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3726426&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

Amount Vick was sentenced to pay to house and care for the 47 pit bulls he and his buddies didn't drown, strangle, hang, shoot, or electrocute for not winning fights: $928,073.

Cost of a bottle of Shelter Blend Flower Essence aromatherapy used for "anxious, worried or easily stressed" dogs at the sanctuary: $27.50.

_______________________________________________


So it’s a reasonable punishment for the government to make him pay for exorbitant aromatherapy for dogs? How is this Constitutional? Everything about Vick’s treatment in this process, from the way they attacked him* to the punishment has been absurd and demonstrates a failing of our justice system.


* The prosecutors bypassed and did not punish the thugs who were primarily responsible, instead using them to testify that Vick was tangentially involved. They were clearly going for publicity over justice.

[Winnb]

I agree it's a weird punishment. But if it were up to me he'd spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. So paying for aroma therapy for dogs, while silly and probably unconstitutional (I don't know) is a slap on the wrist.

And yeah the other thugs got reduced sentences (or none) for their testimony against Vick. But it's always that way. Vick was one of the "financiers" of the dog fighting ring. Prosecutors have been treating mob members that way for years. Get the little guys to testify against the big guys.

[gopman]

I agree it's a weird punishment. But if it were up to me he'd spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. So paying for aroma therapy for dogs, while silly and probably unconstitutional (I don't know) is a slap on the wrist.

And yeah the other thugs got reduced sentences (or none) for their testimony against Vick. But it's always that way. Vick was one of the "financiers" of the dog fighting ring. Prosecutors have been treating mob members that way for years. Get the little guys to testify against the big guys.

The difference is that Mob leaders run crime rings that transport and sell drugs and kill people. Vick was allowing people to use his property for dog fighting. "Bringing him down" didn't do that much good. They are just fighting dogs at someone else's house.

I don't have as strong of an opinion about dog fighting, so I think 2 years and a million bucks is overly harsh, especially for his limited role. But in any case I'd think someone really interested in the dogs would have preferred to see those who actually perpetrated the fights and the killings to be put away. I guarantee they're out there doing the same thing right now. If Vick were out he'd be minding his own business in the NFL.

[JD3]

I think it was more than that. He also gambled, and testimony was that he allowed his pitbulls to kill and maim average house pets for fun. He had the abuse charges drop for pleading guilty. So, it was a bit more than just using his house.

[gopman]

I think it was more than that. He also gambled, and testimony was that he allowed his pitbulls to kill and maim average house pets for fun. He had the abuse charges drop for pleading guilty. So, it was a bit more than just using his house.

He was never convicted of gambling, he denied it and there was no evidence other than the testimony of the bribed thugs. And the killing of the dogs was not done in his physical presence.

My issue isn't with his guilt, he was clearly supporting the enterprise and admitted to that. My issue is that the prosecution bypassed actual justice to bring down a big name, and strap him with an absurdly brutal punishment.

[Winnb]

But in any case I'd think someone really interested in the dogs would have preferred to see those who actually perpetrated the fights and the killings to be put away. I guarantee they're out there doing the same thing right now. If Vick were out he'd be minding his own business in the NFL.

I agree with that. I would like to have seen everyone involved spend some time in prison.

[JD3]

He was never convicted of gambling, he denied it and there was no evidence other than the testimony of the bribed thugs. And the killing of the dogs was not done in his physical presence.

My issue isn't with his guilt, he was clearly supporting the enterprise and admitted to that. My issue is that the prosecution bypassed actual justice to bring down a big name, and strap him with an absurdly brutal punishment.

I read differently. I understand he watched the dog killed and laughed. However, we did not have this played out in court because if the plea. But I don't think anything was any more bypassed than any other dealing done by justice departments on a daily basis.

[gopman]

I read differently. I understand he watched the dog killed and laughed. However, we did not have this played out in court because if the plea. But I don't think anything was any more bypassed than any other dealing done by justice departments on a daily basis.

But like I posted earlier, he was not a mob boss. Mob bosses are more valuable to law enforcement than their henchmen, so the deals make sense and are in the interest of public safety. In this case, the more serious offenders were given a pass in exchange for publicity. That is clearly not in the interest of public safety. The punishment seems to have been meant to grab headlines as well.

Unfortunately, Vick will have no recourse, because the people who are supposed to protect him from this kind of treatment are the same ones that perpetrated it. What a sad example of government abusing its power.

[serenity]

Unfortunately, Vick will have no recourse, because the people who are supposed to protect him from this kind of treatment are the same ones that perpetrated it. What a sad example of government abusing its power.


I'm not sure you're right, as I have onl peripherally noticed this case, but you make a strong argument.

However (and this is not to condone the process if you are indeed correct), this sort of thing happens now and then, a sort of bowing to the principles of supposed justice--that the wealthy will be treated the same as the poor. (Conrad Black, for example.)

however, people without fame, wealth, recourse or a public voice are truly the oens regularly screwed over by the justice system. For example, a rich person has soemthing like ten percent the chances of beingput to death as a poor person....for exactly the same crme.

What I"m trying to say is that injustice is quite endemic to oru jsutice system, which in many ways is a class system. If Vick is being wrongly punished (ie too harshly, as you say) that is wrong; it is wrong in and of itself.

But being wrongly punished is as normal as the air we breathe. Vick's case stands out not because it's unique, but because it's rare for wealthy folks to get equal treatment under the law.

[edit: i just want to re-iterate, for the sake of absolute clarity, that injustice is injustice...if you're right about Vick's sentence, then this is outrageous. Class disparities in the justice system are certainly not his fault.]

[gopman]

I'm not sure you're right, as I have onl peripherally noticed this case, but you make a strong argument.

However (and this is not to condone the process if you are indeed correct), this sort of thing happens now and then, a sort of bowing to the principles of supposed justice--that the wealthy will be treated the same as the poor. (Conrad Black, for example.)

however, people without fame, wealth, recourse or a public voice are truly the oens regularly screwed over by the justice system. For example, a rich person has soemthing like ten percent the chances of beingput to death as a poor person....for exactly the same crme.

What I"m trying to say is that injustice is quite endemic to oru jsutice system, which in many ways is a class system. If Vick is being wrongly punished (ie too harshly, as you say) that is wrong; it is wrong in and of itself.

But being wrongly punished is as normal as the air we breathe. Vick's case stands out not because it's unique, but because it's rare for wealthy folks to get equal treatment under the law.

[edit: i just want to re-iterate, for the sake of absolute clarity, that injustice is injustice...if you're right about Vick's sentence, then this is outrageous. Class disparities in the justice system are certainly not his fault.]

The public nature of the case gives us a good opportunity to take a close look at the failings of our justice system. I don't know how we fix it, because the system in place is good- the failing is human. (Which is why it makes sense that having the means to hire a good lawyer to defend you would go a long way)

Remember the prison guard experiment?

http://www.prisonexp.org/

Vick had the additional misfortune of being a public figure.

[serenity]

(Which is why it makes sense that having the means to hire a good lawyer to defend you would go a long way)


It certainly does. Hence the disparity in serious criminal cases, particularly capital crimes. Of course, means vs, lack of means is a serious issue in an ostensibly "blind" justice system.

[JD3]

But like I posted earlier, he was not a mob boss. Mob bosses are more valuable to law enforcement than their henchmen, so the deals make sense and are in the interest of public safety. In this case, the more serious offenders were given a pass in exchange for publicity. That is clearly not in the interest of public safety. The punishment seems to have been meant to grab headlines as well.

Unfortunately, Vick will have no recourse, because the people who are supposed to protect him from this kind of treatment are the same ones that perpetrated it. What a sad example of government abusing its power.

No, he wasn't a mob boss. But he did break the law, and he was there laughing as family pets were killed and maimed by fighting dogs (according to testimony). This makes it hard to feel sorry for him. I see no overkill.