Hot Spot for the Non-Believers

[Alucard]

It has come to my attention lately that many people who do not claim a religion of any kind get stuck in a tight spot. Many people flame at them or make them feel uncomfortable. Even wrose is the close mindedness of people from different religions. Granted this has decreased greatly over the years as people opened their minds, however, it's still there. I think that makes me steamed more then trouble for the religionless.

[Alucard]

So what if someone believes that God is one thing or another. When it all comes down to it all religions believe in some kind of higher power. Or for the God related ones, it really doesn't matter what is taught the Bible is the same no matter what. The choices you make now affect where you are going. Granted I'm not highly knowledgible in the whole sin/repent subject.

[USViking]

As one who does not claim a religion,
I thank you for your support.

I do wish to say that no one has ever
flamed at me for my views- my family,
my friends, my coworkers, and the
members of this forum. All have been
tolerant, and none have expressed
their views any more strongly than have
expressed mine.

[Thermopylae]

I've only told my parents, sister, and brother my views..

My parents were outraged, my sister also.. I think my brother believed in my ideas but didn't really comment on them.

I havn't told anyone else that I am an atheist. For some reason everyone has the idea that atheists are a bunch of black cloak wearing, shady, trouble-making, lunatics who worship satan in their basement at night.. so, I don't plan on telling anyone until I have a wife and a position of some type..

Oh, and also, I still celebrate the holidays, I mean, who doesn't want a goddamn tree with a bunch of presents under them?.. and I worship the tree more than 'god.'

[Alucard]

Thermopylae I hear you. When I tell people I really don't believe in anything but a higher power of some sort they assume that I'm atheist. I'm not. And what's with this you are Satan's minion. I swear every time that happens my eyebrow twitches. Badly. Oh! And holidays are so much fun. I love holidays. I love spending that time with my family.

[Alucard]

As for you USViking, no problem. I'm always a shoulder to lean on. Also consider yourself lucky. Being flamed by lack of religion sucks. I hate it. I almost feel inferior when someone starts preaching to me. Yes, it's nice to voice your opion of God and promote your church, just keep it out of my face please. When I'm ready I'll go to church on my own.

[Independent]

I've only told my parents, sister, and brother my views..

My parents were outraged, my sister also.. I think my brother believed in my ideas but didn't really comment on them.

I havn't told anyone else that I am an atheist. For some reason everyone has the idea that atheists are a bunch of black cloak wearing, shady, trouble-making, lunatics who worship satan in their basement at night.. so, I don't plan on telling anyone until I have a wife and a position of some type..

Oh, and also, I still celebrate the holidays, I mean, who doesn't want a goddamn tree with a bunch of presents under them?.. and I worship the tree more than 'god.'

Well, I just believe in all religions. What is the most important is that religious people are aware that I am not against their religion and I participate with it and any other religion my own way on my own time when I feel like it. :) They can claim as much as they want to that I'll burn in hell for all eternity, but I'll only give them money when I am convinced that they will really use it to help someone who is in need.

[mataj]

I almost feel inferior when someone starts preaching to me.That's intentional.

Every religions upholds 'us versus them' mentality, and superiority complex of it's followers. I you don't believe in Christian god, you are called a fool, and compared to a blind man. 'Spiritually blind' is common derogatory term in New age religions too. If you don't believe in Allah you are filthy infidel, and if you don't believe in Amway's BS, you are a loser.

Have you ever noticed how interested sermonizers are in your worldview? Like "Oh, you are not Christian? What are you then?" That's why they already have text for your particular worldview ready beforehand. My usual reponse to such interrogation is: "What is that to you? I'm sure, that you already have a bucket of manure ready for whatever I am".


When I'm ready I'll go to church on my own.IMHE, you won't. There always is some sort of more or less covert coercion involved.

I grew up in consistenly atheistic/agnostic family. We don't set a foot into church even for weddings, and funerals. Neither mysef, nor my kids never felt any need to go to church whatsoever.

[DMann]

Oh i don't thinkstepping into church is so bad. whenever i go to NYC or europe i always like the gothic cathedrals...and the catholics know how to put on a show....so I like that whole ritual thing. i don't participate....but, i like watching. There are some great all african american.babtist churches in the south that really have some great music. So, it' s not so bad to me. It's free entertainment...and that southern gospel music can give you goose bumps.

[Platypus]

I've definitely seen this problem. I was born into an intensely religious family, but I am not religious. It's still a source of awkwardness whenever I'm with any of my family except my mother or my brother. When I reestablished contact with my father's side of the family and went from Michigan to New Jersey to see them for the first time in over 20 years, it was still a damper on an otherwise joyous occasion. I don't think any of my four missionary grandparents ever really got over the fact that my brother and I were not among the blessed. For some people, whether or not you share their faith or even their precise denomination is the first and very nearly only thing that matters about a person.

[MikeD4o7]

I've definitely seen this problem. I was born into an intensely religious family, but I am not religious. It's still a source of awkwardness whenever I'm with any of my family except my mother or my brother. When I reestablished contact with my father's side of the family and went from Michigan to New Jersey to see them for the first time in over 20 years, it was still a damper on an otherwise joyous occasion. I don't think any of my four missionary grandparents ever really got over the fact that my brother and I were not among the blessed. For some people, whether or not you share their faith or even their precise denomination is the first and very nearly only thing that matters about a person.


But when you put yourself in the shoes of the believers of many of these denominations, you really can't blame them for strongly objecting to opposing views that their loved ones might have... after all, many of these people truly believe that if there son, daughter, mother, father etc. doesn't believe a certain thing, then that loved one of theirs is going to spend all of eternity in endless suffering. I can think of nothing that would cause more stress on somebody than to truly believe that one of their loved ones is doomed to the worst possible thing imaginable. So it's really to be expected for many of these people to try to actively change what others believe, especially those close to them.

This is just one of many reasons that I consider faith a vice instead of a virtue. There is no issue, belief, or stance that should not be questioned as thoroughly and as vigorously as possible... any belief that attempts to shield itself from questioning clearly has something to hide.

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Platypus]

But when you put yourself in the shoes of the believers of many of these denominations, you really can't blame them for strongly objecting to opposing views that their loved ones might have... after all, many of these people truly believe that if there son, daughter, mother, father etc. doesn't believe a certain thing, then that loved one of theirs is going to spend all of eternity in endless suffering.

Oh, I totally understand and appreciate the evangelist impulse you describe. However, I'd have to say that the way many people express this concern is, shall we say, a little less than helpful. "I'm worried for your soul" is one thing, but "you're going to hell" is quite another.

[mataj]

Oh i don't thinkstepping into church is so bad. ...and that southern gospel music can give you goose bumps.I prefer heavy metal :music: So, the only remaining thing that can get me near the church is architecture. And even this looks better from the outside.
I've definitely seen this problem.Yup, same here. My late grandmother's side of the family are devout Catholics. In the last 30 years or so, we met only once, on her funeral. I doubt I'll ever see them again, and I don't long for it either.

I'm pretty tolerant against other people's behavior, and sermonizing doesn't affect me a bit. My problem with them is more serious. How can I trust someone, who's kind and honest to me only because of fear of hellfire? Sooner or later, such person will get an attack of hypocrisy, and backstab me when I'll least expect it- for the sake of well-being of my soul, of course.

[Alucard]

I love gothic architecture! The style is so elegant, and it flows. Granted the arches on the outside are used to keep the places up because when they opened them up and put in so any glass windows the walls have so little support. It's better then when they had thick walls with few windows if any!

[Alucard]

My friends and I were talking about this and Vash brought up a very good point. I have to agree with her. It's just down right annoying and petty when people insult other peoples' religion. That just pisses me off to no end. If you don't like it then keep your mouth shut! Thanks a million for giving me a real conversation Chii? and Vash.

[DMann]

dracula and gothic churches....they seem to go together

[mataj]

dracula and gothic churches....they seem to go togetherYou should see Munich Cathedral at night. Spooky!

http://www.jdbard.com/munich.htm
http://s.sukno.tripod.com/gargo.html
http://www.cheesepalace.com/Gallery/Travel/Munich.jpg

[skibum8]

It has come to my attention lately that many people who do not claim a religion of any kind get stuck in a tight spot. Many people flame at them or make them feel uncomfortable. Even wrose is the close mindedness of people from different religions. Granted this has decreased greatly over the years as people opened their minds, however, it's still there. I think that makes me steamed more then trouble for the religionless.

I understand what you mean as i have progressed from following my family's religion to agnostic to atheist. One thing you neglect to mention is that devout secularists are no different than religious people. They treat people who do believe in religion disgracefully. Its really not religion, its just human nature. Humans fear anything different. Its why we have conflict. It may even be why that higher being placed us all on different continents and made us speak different languages.

[DMann]

Humans fear anything different. Its why we have conflict.


and SOME hate anything different ;)

[earth]

It has come to my attention lately that many people who do not claim a religion of any kind get stuck in a tight spot. Many people flame at them or make them feel uncomfortable. Even wrose is the close mindedness of people from different religions. Granted this has decreased greatly over the years as people opened their minds, however, it's still there. I think that makes me steamed more then trouble for the religionless.

I'd say it's the opposite and us "non-believers" have a horrible time of flaming the religious because of their beliefs.

[Underling]

It has come to my attention lately that many people who do not claim a religion of any kind get stuck in a tight spot. Many people flame at them or make them feel uncomfortable. Even wrose is the close mindedness of people from different religions. Granted this has decreased greatly over the years as people opened their minds, however, it's still there. I think that makes me steamed more then trouble for the religionless.

Not only those who do not claim a religion but it seems that any none-creationist religions seems to be major targets for religious discrimination.(especialy from christians)

[mataj]

Not only those who do not claim a religion but it seems that any none-creationist religions seems to be major targets for religious discrimination.(especialy from christians)Creationism is the cornerstone of monotheism. Without it, monotheists could not claim to be superior over other religions, like "Our god created everything, even your gods. Therefore, you must be grateful to Him, and respect Him, even if you don't believe into Him. Oh, and BTW, you must respect us, His earthly representatives too!"

[DMann]

don't worry guys...i know kung fu...i'll take this God jerk out if he messes with ANY of us

[Underling]

Therefore, you must be grateful to Him, and respect Him, even if you don't believe into Him. Oh, and BTW, you must respect us, His earthly representatives too!"

You say that those of my religion must respect the gods of other religions and the followers such as you but that does not explain why some many people of religions such as yours have been so disrepectful to people of almost every other religions and members of those religions and at times even resorted to murdering those of other religions.

[Independent]

You say that those of my religion must respect the gods of other religions and the followers such as you but that does not explain why some many people of religions such as yours have been so disrepectful to people of almost every other religions and members of those religions and at times even resorted to murdering those of other religions.

The answer to that is simple. Don't be like them! If you don't like what they do, then don't copy it, don't do it, don't be like them because if you behave like them, then you are them!! :)

Instead, be different from them, show them your love, respect their religion, honor their Gods, welcome them into your world and be everything that they are not! :)

Because, if you do not respect them and don't show them your respect, then people like me won't be able to see the difference between you and them! :angel:

Furthermore, if you are good to others, then they will have the desire to be like you, will adapt your ways and will become like you.

[JustinH]

So what if someone believes that God is one thing or another. When it all comes down to it all religions believe in some kind of higher power. Or for the God related ones, it really doesn't matter what is taught the Bible is the same no matter what. The choices you make now affect where you are going. Granted I'm not highly knowledgible in the whole sin/repent subject.

Incorrect. Buddhism believes in no such things, the idea of Gods (or any immortal being for that matter) would violate the foundation of our world. The only "higher power" is knowledge.

Coming from a family of Christians and marrying into a family of Mormons I certainly made myself a target. In that respect, I feel I have the same insight as atheists or agnostics. I certainly wouldn't attack or disrespect them for their choices. That is the benefit of humanity, we get to make those choices.

[Independent]

Incorrect. Buddhism believes in no such things, the idea of Gods (or any immortal being for that matter) would violate the foundation of our world. The only "higher power" is knowledge.

We have seen that Buddhists do not believe in God because to them the idea is illogical and contrary to the facts. Buddhists also reject the Christian God because, if the Bible is correct, God appears to be so imperfect.
http://www.geocities.com/cambodianview/buddhism

Maybe what these Buddhists don't understand is that our understanding of God is created by how we understand the Bible. Everyone understands God differently because everyone reads the Bible from a different perspective and honors certain parts of the Bible while ignoring other parts of it.

[JustinH]

We have seen that Buddhists do not believe in God because to them the idea is illogical and contrary to the facts. Buddhists also reject the Christian God because, if the Bible is correct, God appears to be so imperfect.
http://www.geocities.com/cambodianview/buddhism

Maybe what these Buddhists don't understand is that our understanding of God is created by how we understand the Bible. Everyone understands God differently because everyone reads the Bible from a different perspective and honors certain parts of the Bible while ignoring other parts of it.

No the Buddhists understand that perfectly... that faith in God is blind. The Buddha taught us to test what he has said, and never to believe anything blindly. So far I believe much of what the Buddha has written (although, I have not read it all yet) and I have tested my belief as well. However, you don't have that with God and the Bible. It's so contradictory that to believe "all" of it would be quite impossible.

[Independent]

However, it is very possible for Native Americans, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and Hindus to believe in the same God. I guess that just depends upon how we wish to understand God. :)

In general, if a Buddhist believes in God he holds to a pantheistic view. Many view God as an impersonal force which is made up of all living things and holds the universe together. This is the same as the Hindu concept of Pantheism that the force is united with all living and non living thing in creation.
http://www.letusreason.org/Buddh1.htm

[Independent]

No the Buddhists understand that perfectly... that faith in God is blind. The Buddha taught us to test what he has said, and never to believe anything blindly. So far I believe much of what the Buddha has written (although, I have not read it all yet) and I have tested my belief as well. However, you don't have that with God and the Bible. It's so contradictory that to believe "all" of it would be quite impossible.

Christianity taught me to follow my heart, to follow what is good and just. This belief contradicts with some things that are written in the Bible but is very similar to that of Buddism and Tao. :)

[JustinH]

Christianity taught me to follow my heart, to follow what is good and just. This belief contradicts with some things that are written in the Bible but is very similar to that of Buddism and Tao. :)

That is true, even that Dali Lama has said that just "being good" is a good start. Christianity is a religion based on fear, "if you do this you'll go here" or "if you don't do this, this may happen to you"... "be nice or this is going to happen"... so I see a lot of people that attribute their good behavior to the bible... the equivolent to saying "I was nice because the bible said so", this is a serious clash with Buddhism, which tells us being nice is great... but doing so with poor intentions (IE because someone told you to, or to improve your Kharma points) is of little good and can in fact, be bad for you in the long run.

[mataj]

. . . people of religions such as yours . . .

First of all, I'm politheist, not monotheist. I was speaking in general. BTW, my favorite god is Great Old Cthulhu, which lies in His tomb beneath the Pacific ocean, and dreams His dead dreams. When the time comes, and the stars are right, He will resurrect, and eat everybody, including our eventual creator god(s). We, who worship Him, will be eaten last.

Now to your question. IMHO, religion is like a living being, struggling for survival. Survival is it's one & only purpose. Instead for food, and living space, it struggles with other religions for people's brains. Religion, which manages to settle down in more brains, is more succesful. In this struggle, anything goes- from charity, to genocide.

Maybe I'm right about it, maybe I'm not. But I'm dead sure about one thing: you'll never get a straight answer to your question from monotheist.

[Alucard]

True there are a lot of non-believers that flame believers but most of those tend to be atheist. I find that both sides really should open their minds more, but people are stubborn by nature and that will be a lot harder then it might first appear.

[Alucard]

If a non-believer doesn’t want to know anything then leave them alone. However, if they want to know more about then tell me all they want to know. Also don’t push them. When people are pushed they just push back and resist even more.

[Alucard]

Incorrect. Buddhism believes in no such things, the idea of Gods (or any immortal being for that matter) would violate the foundation of our world. The only "higher power" is knowledge.

I know! Knowledge is a higher power, it is one that even I believe. Knowledge is a kind of higher power. Oh, and by the way, it is kind of rude to tell someone they are incorrect. It’s better to just give what information you have and be done with it.

[Alucard]

However, it is very possible for Native Americans, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and Hindus to believe in the same God. I guess that just depends upon how we wish to understand God.

Thank you. Don’t ask why just thank you. That last sentence would be so helpful in opening people’s minds….if they would listen. It would end a lot of needless conflict.

[JustinH]

I know! Knowledge is a higher power, it is one that even I believe. Knowledge is a kind of higher power. Oh, and by the way, it is kind of rude to tell someone they are incorrect. It’s better to just give what information you have and be done with it.

I don't think its rude... when I'm wrong I certainly don't mind it being pointed out. He made a blanket statement (which honestly, I don't blame him, as far as I know Buddhism is the ONLY major religion which doesn't believe in God).

[DMann]

BuddhaNet - Worldwide Buddhist Information and Education Network


check that site out. It's very calming.

[Ghost]

From what I understand of Buddhism, a belief in God is basically irrelevant, and it doesn't teach one way or the other. You're right, it doesn't center around 'do this and you'll go here, or that'll happen to you' kinda thing, like Christianity does. Christianity has, in the past, used fear as one of it's principle tools. Buddhism hasn't. For all of you atheists out there, you might want to look into it...I've never been religious, I can't bring myself to agree with any of the major western religions, but I've started trying to follow Buddhism. It is the only religion I've found which encourages learning, skepticism, and logic.

[DMann]

Christianity still uses the fear approach. I mean, from the way they describe it, who would want to go to hell?
I suppose they balance it out with heaven, and eternal life. But, I've never found the "living forever" thing all that appealing.

[Ghost]

But, I've never found the "living forever" thing all that appealing.

Agreed. I think it'd be rather boring...unless heaven had a PS2...that'd be sweet :cool:

But yeah, Christianity uses fear as one of it's primary tools. In more modern times, it's tending to be 'God's love' used to draw people in, but historically, it was fear.

[DMann]

ps2? nah...x-box rox ...more games on ps2...but x-box has the graphics.

[Alucard]

x-box? ps2? *is confused* However, the only reason I like x-box is for Soul Caliber II! That game rocks!

[Relient Halo]

That is true, even that Dali Lama has said that just "being good" is a good start. Christianity is a religion based on fear, "if you do this you'll go here" or "if you don't do this, this may happen to you"... "be nice or this is going to happen"... so I see a lot of people that attribute their good behavior to the bible... the equivolent to saying "I was nice because the bible said so", this is a serious clash with Buddhism, which tells us being nice is great... but doing so with poor intentions (IE because someone told you to, or to improve your Kharma points) is of little good and can in fact, be bad for you in the long run.

:lol: I'm sorry Justin, but where exactly is your backing for this? Just thought I'd ask, because I know Christianity, and it's not about fear. Maybe you've gotten confused. I am good not because the Bible tells me so, but because I found through it and it is better to be good in your intentions then to be good because you're supposed to be good. There is no point in your actions if they do not have a sincere heart behind them.

[Relient Halo]

x-box? ps2? *is confused* However, the only reason I like x-box is for Soul Caliber II! That game rocks!

God backs the Xbox and blesses all who touch the holy console.

[Ghost]

Maybe we should write to the Pope asking whether Jesus prefers the PS2 or the Xbox...funny how GameCube wasn't mentioned...

But Halo, fear has always been a tool of Christianity, just like violence. Fear of an eternity of torture and burning is an extremely effective tool. Look at all the preachers in the 1800's in the US, where they were writing things like 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God' and perpetrating the Witch Trials. Similar deal with violence. When scientists spoke out in favor of the heliocentric theory, the church declared them heretics and hunted them down. Several of them were branded with the cross and drug through the streets. Christianity consolidated power in Rome by persecuting the minority pagans once Christianity had been instituted as the state religion, much the same way that they themselves had been persecuted for centuries. The Pope declared the Crusades, one of the bloodiest times in the world's history. Accounts tell of Christian knights slaughtering entire Muslim towns and wading through the blood in the streets.

It's interesting to think that some of the most inhumane times in history are the times when people are the times when faith in religion is the highest...the later Roman empire, the medieval ages, the witch hunts, the inquistitions, the crusades, and even up to modern-day in the Middle East.

[Relient Halo]

Maybe we should write to the Pope asking whether Jesus prefers the PS2 or the Xbox...funny how GameCube wasn't mentioned...

But Halo, fear has always been a tool of Christianity, just like violence. Fear of an eternity of torture and burning is an extremely effective tool. Look at all the preachers in the 1800's in the US, where they were writing things like 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God' and perpetrating the Witch Trials. Similar deal with violence. When scientists spoke out in favor of the heliocentric theory, the church declared them heretics and hunted them down. Several of them were branded with the cross and drug through the streets. Christianity consolidated power in Rome by persecuting the minority pagans once Christianity had been instituted as the state religion, much the same way that they themselves had been persecuted for centuries. The Pope declared the Crusades, one of the bloodiest times in the world's history. Accounts tell of Christian knights slaughtering entire Muslim towns and wading through the blood in the streets.

It's interesting to think that some of the most inhumane times in history are the times when people are the times when faith in religion is the highest...the later Roman empire, the medieval ages, the witch hunts, the inquistitions, the crusades, and even up to modern-day in the Middle East.

Please keep in mind that what they practiced wasn't Christianity. I can't imagine Jesus supporting the Spanish Inquisition, or the hunting of witches. That was done by man, not Christ. You have to find the true church. It just takes time. If there's corruption in government, people cry "Reform!", but with religious institutions the cry is "Death!". Why not reform? Why not change? The message isn't being portrayed through their means.

[Relient Halo]

Maybe we should write to the Pope asking whether Jesus prefers the PS2 or the Xbox...funny how GameCube wasn't mentioned...



Gamecube is the tool of the Devil!! Xbox is holy and infallable. That's right, don't question it...

(This is a joke, please see it as that. Some people get so serious and uppity)

[DMann]

no one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition

[VashTheStampede]

Spanish Inquisition? Xbox? .......... what?

[Relient Halo]

no one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition

Could you please again a little deeper in detail. I'm not a 100% sure I understand what you're trying to get at.

[skibum8]

Ghost the salem Witch trials which I assume you're referring to occurred in the late 1600's not the 1800's.

[DMann]

no one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition

monty python


it was a joke

[Ghost]

Ghost the salem Witch trials which I assume you're referring to occurred in the late 1600's not the 1800's.

...smartass.

You're right though. They started in 1692 I think. Thanks for pointing that out.

[MikeD4o7]

Please keep in mind that what they practiced wasn't Christianity. I can't imagine Jesus supporting the Spanish Inquisition, or the hunting of witches. That was done by man, not Christ. You have to find the true church. It just takes time. If there's corruption in government, people cry "Reform!", but with religious institutions the cry is "Death!". Why not reform? Why not change? The message isn't being portrayed through their means.

Ah, but don't you see that through this reasoning, you're only following the ethics of the day. In every age, people have had different ideas about what Jesus would have or would not have wanted. Sure, now it's easy for us to sit here and say that this is not what Jesus would have wanted, but the Bible STILL very clearly states in Exodus that witches must be hunted down and killed. It may be possible that one day society in this country as a whole will view the death penalty as immoral, and of course you will have christians touting the same line "true christians wouldn't have supported this, those people weren't true christians" The fact of the matter is that in every age, people have been able to do what they think is right, and they have always been able to use the Bible to justify their actions, no matter what they were.

[Ghost]

Ah, but don't you see that through this reasoning, you're only following the ethics of the day. In every age, people have had different ideas about what Jesus would have or would not have wanted. Sure, now it's easy for us to sit here and say that this is not what Jesus would have wanted, but the Bible STILL very clearly states in Exodus that witches must be hunted down and killed. It may be possible that one day society in this country as a whole will view the death penalty as immoral, and of course you will have christians touting the same line "true christians wouldn't have supported this, those people weren't true christians" The fact of the matter is that in every age, people have been able to do what they think is right, and they have always been able to use the Bible to justify their actions, no matter what they were.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Damn straight, man. You hit the nail right on the head, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Alucard]

None shall pass.

[Alucard]

Well, then that was the black knight from Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail. I love that movie. It was just a random moment.

[Xia]

The only thing I dislike about religion is when people won't even listen to what you believe. If you don't believe what they believe they stop you and try to convert you. Like mentioned earlier they take the "us vs you" stance. Except for mormons, I happen to consider myself a mormon. And thus far, they are the least hypocritical religion I've found. They don't consider themselves "better" then anyone else, and they don't "preach" that other religions are wrong. Which definatly can't be said for about every other religion I've tried. Almost everytime I found extreme bias against mormons. Sorry for my tangent. I have a good friend who considers himself to believe in a greater being, but he's not of a religion, he's usually where I find the most interesting discussion on religion. I love open minded people.

[Alucard]

Open minded people are the best to talk about with such subjects. Like I said it's good you have a religion just don't push it on me please. There is no one that is a 'greater being' here in this plane of exsistense. You might be able to become one when you cross over, but you still are little in the minds of those who have been there before you.